I have a heap of flat IDE cables and I want to cull my stockholding. Are
there many different types and if so, how do I different between them (they
all look the same to me)?
I know the narrower plugs are for floppy drives, it's the 40 pin ones I'm
enquiring about.

TIA

Damo

--
damien clan .
@ mcbain com

there's no place like 127.0.0.1

From:	Fred Ferd
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:38:43 GMT

"Damien McBain" wrote in message
news:41f3635b$0$28689$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>I have a heap of flat IDE cables and I want to cull my stockholding. Are
> there many different types and if so, how do I different between them
> (they
> all look the same to me)?

40 conductor cable - no good for UDMA 33,66 , 100 or 133 speed drives.

80 conductor cable - good for UDMA 33 and faster - DVD drives and all
hard drives larger than around 8 gig require this type of cable.

Cables with connectors labelled as "master" "slave" and "system" are cable
select cables.

maybe some of them are different in length or number of connectors
(some of the old cables may be one drive only !) , and the limit is three
connectors, which is for two drives.

the new cables may not fit into very old systems, because of the key hole
plugged in the connector, or the key sticking out of the side of the
connector.

> I know the narrower plugs are for floppy drives, it's the 40 pin ones I'm
> enquiring about.
>
> TIA
>
> Damo
>
> --
> damien clan .
> @ mcbain com
>
> there's no place like 127.0.0.1
>
>

From:	Charlie
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:02:56 +1000

Fred Ferd wrote:

> 40 conductor cable - no good for UDMA 33,66 , 100 or 133 speed drives.

40 pin is fine for 33...

Charlie

From:	Dee
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:31:42 +1100

>
> Cables with connectors labelled as "master" "slave" and "system" are cable
> select cables.
>
to elaborate on this a bit, the slave plug on a cable select cable has
one wire missing (#28) thats why the master is usually (i've never seen
otherwise) the first plug on the cable. you can make your own cable
select cables by cutting this wire AFTER the first connector, that will
make first connector master and end connector slave. on a 80 ribbon
cable it won't be the 28th in. as each wire has it's own grounding hence
the double cables (they need the extra ground wires for less
interference/crosstalk and higher speeds), so you work out which one it
is :)

So it's good computer building habit to always put the master on the
first IDE connector reguardless of cable select or not. On systems i've
built this makes it a breeze to recognize which device is master or
slave without looking at jumpers etc. except of course when someones
been playing with them and you waste 1/2 hr wondering why things "just
don't seem right" :)

Dee

From:	Damien McBain
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:37:13 +1100

Dee wrote:
>> Cables with connectors labelled as "master" "slave" and "system"
>> are cable select cables.
>>
> to elaborate on this a bit, the slave plug on a cable select cable has
> one wire missing (#28) thats why the master is usually (i've never
> seen otherwise) the first plug on the cable. you can make your own
> cable select cables by cutting this wire AFTER the first connector,
> that will make first connector master and end connector slave. on a
> 80 ribbon cable it won't be the 28th in. as each wire has it's own
> grounding hence the double cables (they need the extra ground wires
> for less interference/crosstalk and higher speeds), so you work out
> which one it is :)
>
> So it's good computer building habit to always put the master on the
> first IDE connector reguardless of cable select or not. On systems
> i've built this makes it a breeze to recognize which device is master
> or slave without looking at jumpers etc. except of course when
> someones been playing with them and you waste 1/2 hr wondering why
> things "just don't seem right" :)
>
> Dee

Yep, done that before too. No I just jumper the drives so the cable goes
wherever I want and fits nicely in the box :D

Thanks for the tips Dee, Charlie, Fred and eltan. I have a bag full of 40
wire cables, most of which are now in the bin.

cheers

Damien

--
damien clan .
@ mcbain com

there's no place like 127.0.0.1

From:	Rod Speed
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 06:10:47 +1100

"Dee" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c5e2816d5a2a6189896ba@news.tpg.com.au...
>>
>> Cables with connectors labelled as "master" "slave" and "system" are cable
>> select cables.
>>
> to elaborate on this a bit, the slave plug on a cable select cable has
> one wire missing (#28) thats why the master is usually (i've never seen
> otherwise) the first plug on the cable. you can make your own cable
> select cables by cutting this wire AFTER the first connector, that will
> make first connector master and end connector slave. on a 80 ribbon
> cable it won't be the 28th in. as each wire has it's own grounding hence
> the double cables (they need the extra ground wires for less
> interference/crosstalk and higher speeds), so you work out which one it
> is :)

> So it's good computer building habit to always put the master
> on the first IDE connector reguardless of cable select or not.

Its not clear what you mean by first. The master should be on the
end, not in the middle. Thats now required by the ATA standard,
tho it wasnt initially. Primarily because with a single drive you should
have the drive on the end of the cable, so there isnt an unterminated
stub of cable past the drive with it on the middle connector.

On systems i've
> built this makes it a breeze to recognize which device is master or
> slave without looking at jumpers etc. except of course when someones
> been playing with them and you waste 1/2 hr wondering why things "just
> don't seem right" :)

From:	Dee
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:23:42 +1100

> Its not clear what you mean by first. The master should be on the
> end, not in the middle. Thats now required by the ATA standard,
> tho it wasnt initially. Primarily because with a single drive you should
> have the drive on the end of the cable, so there isnt an unterminated
> stub of cable past the drive with it on the middle connector.
>

Thats what i like about standards .... there's so many of em. and they
change all the time.

been a while since i looked at a new cable select cable, are you saying
they now put the master on the end, not the first (middle) connector?
wonder how they do that? Does the slave connector have a missing pin?
or is cable select under a different stanard :)

Dee

From:	Rod Speed
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:52:16 +1100

Dee wrote in message
news:MPG.1c5eb2dbe370b4879896bb@news.tpg.com.au...

>> Its not clear what you mean by first. The master should be on the
>> end, not in the middle. Thats now required by the ATA standard,
>> tho it wasnt initially. Primarily because with a single drive you should
>> have the drive on the end of the cable, so there isnt an unterminated
>> stub of cable past the drive with it on the middle connector.

> Thats what i like about standards .... there's so many of em.

Not really with IDE cables.

> and they change all the time.

They dont change all that much on the basics most of the time.

> been a while since i looked at a new cable select cable, are you saying
> they now put the master on the end, not the first (middle) connector?

Yep, because the standard requires that for that reason.

> wonder how they do that? Does the slave connector have a missing pin?

Yep.

> or is cable select under a different stanard :)

Nope.

From:	Unknown
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:34:11 +1100

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
news:35ib5qF4mavapU1@individual.net...
>
> "Dee" wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c5e2816d5a2a6189896ba@news.tpg.com.au...
>>>
>>> Cables with connectors labelled as "master" "slave" and "system" are
>>> cable
>>> select cables.
>>>
>> to elaborate on this a bit, the slave plug on a cable select cable has
>> one wire missing (#28) thats why the master is usually (i've never seen
>> otherwise) the first plug on the cable. you can make your own cable
>> select cables by cutting this wire AFTER the first connector, that will
>> make first connector master and end connector slave. on a 80 ribbon
>> cable it won't be the 28th in. as each wire has it's own grounding hence
>> the double cables (they need the extra ground wires for less
>> interference/crosstalk and higher speeds), so you work out which one it
>> is :)
>
>> So it's good computer building habit to always put the master
>> on the first IDE connector reguardless of cable select or not.
>
> Its not clear what you mean by first. The master should be on the
> end, not in the middle. Thats now required by the ATA standard,
> tho it wasnt initially. Primarily because with a single drive you should
> have the drive on the end of the cable, so there isnt an unterminated
> stub of cable past the drive with it on the middle connector.
>

Though that may now be a requirement in the standard now, I have yet to see
it as a necessity. I have had an IDE cable on a relatively new machine that
was mangled just before the end of it by some twit so just used the one down
from it and it worked perfectly. I have even turned the cable the opposite
way around to work out with drive positions before. Eg, the end normally in
the master is in the motherboard and the centre connector in the primary and
a long jump to a CD drive.

The only probs I have ever had with cables is people trying to put CD drives
on modern day cables along with drives that can take them. I find it hard to
try and make them understand it wont work because of that.

From:	Dee
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:01:13 +1100

Reminded me of a little problem that was dumped on the door, a bloke
brought a second hand computer and wanted to add a DVD drive, not having
any idea how to do it he brought it to me. simple 10 minute job ... no.

the idiot who built the drive wanted to run his cables nice and neat,
but couldn't do it with the standard cables, so he cut off the little
lug and reversed one, left the other the right way. so pin 40 was on the
red trace not pin 1

I connect the cable to pin 1 as usual and it won't work. Damm dead drive
i think. connect it to other cable and it worked. ahhh must be dead
cable, pull old cable out and go to plug in new and then find it won't
fit .....

wasted a hour stuffing around ..

anyway after Rod's reply i did a bit of research, seems 40 strand cable
selects are master on the middle, 80's are master on the end (they earth
wire #28) as i havn't had the need to use cable select for ages, i've
never run across a 80 strand cable ... ya live an learn. Now wouldn't
that of caused me some confusion if i assumed it was still like the 40
strand ones :)

Found there is also another type of cable select (i've never seen em)
called a Y-Shaped, this has the motherboard connector in the middle and
slave and master at the ends. guess this one could cause more heartaches
if you didn't know what it was. these are probably a bit rare now, as
they were 40 strand.

Dee

From:	derek / nul
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:52:55 +1100

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:01:13 +1100, Dee wrote:

>anyway after Rod's reply i did a bit of research, seems 40 strand cable
>selects are master on the middle,

There is another 'standard' that has not been mentioned.
Disks and cd's can be jumpered as master, slave or cable select.

If you jumper the drive as master you can put it anywhere on either cable.
If you jumper the drive as slave you can put it anywhere on either cable.

If you jumper the drive as cable select, it will be master on the end and slave
in the middle.

> 80's are master on the end (they earth
>wire #28) as i havn't had the need to use cable select for ages, i've
>never run across a 80 strand cable ... ya live an learn. Now wouldn't
>that of caused me some confusion if i assumed it was still like the 40
>strand ones :)

From:	Rod Speed
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:02:03 +1100

"derek / nul" wrote in message
news:7v29v050iu2t63fidrgbvkakn38oopp98f@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:01:13 +1100, Dee wrote:
>
>>anyway after Rod's reply i did a bit of research, seems 40 strand cable
>>selects are master on the middle,
>
> There is another 'standard' that has not been mentioned.
> Disks and cd's can be jumpered as master, slave or cable select.
>
> If you jumper the drive as master you can put it anywhere on either cable.
> If you jumper the drive as slave you can put it anywhere on either cable.
>
> If you jumper the drive as cable select, it will be master on the end and
> slave
> in the middle.

Only with the 80 wire cables, its the reverse with the 40 wire cables.

>> 80's are master on the end (they earth
>>wire #28) as i havn't had the need to use cable select for ages, i've
>>never run across a 80 strand cable ... ya live an learn. Now wouldn't
>>that of caused me some confusion if i assumed it was still like the 40
>>strand ones :)
>

From:	Rod Speed
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:56:44 +1100

"Unknown" wrote in message
news:5TTId.545$e77.27133@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> "Rod Speed" wrote in message
> news:35ib5qF4mavapU1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Dee" wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1c5e2816d5a2a6189896ba@news.tpg.com.au...
>>>>
>>>> Cables with connectors labelled as "master" "slave" and "system" are cable
>>>> select cables.
>>>>
>>> to elaborate on this a bit, the slave plug on a cable select cable has
>>> one wire missing (#28) thats why the master is usually (i've never seen
>>> otherwise) the first plug on the cable. you can make your own cable
>>> select cables by cutting this wire AFTER the first connector, that will
>>> make first connector master and end connector slave. on a 80 ribbon
>>> cable it won't be the 28th in. as each wire has it's own grounding hence
>>> the double cables (they need the extra ground wires for less
>>> interference/crosstalk and higher speeds), so you work out which one it
>>> is :)
>>
>>> So it's good computer building habit to always put the master
>>> on the first IDE connector reguardless of cable select or not.
>>
>> Its not clear what you mean by first. The master should be on the
>> end, not in the middle. Thats now required by the ATA standard,
>> tho it wasnt initially. Primarily because with a single drive you should
>> have the drive on the end of the cable, so there isnt an unterminated
>> stub of cable past the drive with it on the middle connector.

> Though that may now be a requirement in the standard now, I have yet to see it
> as a necessity.

There's always plenty of flouting of the standard that works.

Those stupid round cables in spades.

> I have had an IDE cable on a relatively new machine that was mangled just
> before the end of it by some twit so just used the one down from it and it
> worked perfectly.

Yes, you dont have to use cable select with a cable select cable.

And quite a few drives will actually work fine as the only
drive on the ribbon when jumpered for cable select too.

Just like plenty do work fine jumpered
as slave as the only drive on the cable too.

> I have even turned the cable the opposite way around to work out with drive
> positions before. Eg, the end normally in the master is in the motherboard and
> the centre connector in the primary and a long jump to a CD drive.

That doesnt work too well with hard drives where the
bios will usually decide that its only ATA33 speed capable.

> The only probs I have ever had with cables is people trying to put CD drives
> on modern day cables along with drives that can take them. I find it hard to
> try and make them understand it wont work because of that.

That is just plain wrong.

From:	eltan
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:29:00 +1100

IDE PC60, PC100 & PC133 = 80 lines on the ribbon cables
IDE PC33 = 40 lines on the ribbon cables

"Damien McBain" wrote in message
news:41f3635b$0$28689$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> I have a heap of flat IDE cables and I want to cull my stockholding. Are
> there many different types and if so, how do I different between them
(they
> all look the same to me)?
> I know the narrower plugs are for floppy drives, it's the 40 pin ones I'm
> enquiring about.
>
> TIA
>
> Damo
>
> --
> damien clan .
> @ mcbain com
>
> there's no place like 127.0.0.1
>
>

From:	eltan
Subject:	Re: IDE cables
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:36:42 +1100

Correction, its ATA not PC

"eltan" wrote in message
news:csvqom$2gl2$1@otis.netspace.net.au...
> IDE PC60, PC100 & PC133 = 80 lines on the ribbon cables
> IDE PC33 = 40 lines on the ribbon cables
>
>
> "Damien McBain" wrote in message
> news:41f3635b$0$28689$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> > I have a heap of flat IDE cables and I want to cull my stockholding. Are
> > there many different types and if so, how do I different between them
> (they
> > all look the same to me)?
> > I know the narrower plugs are for floppy drives, it's the 40 pin ones
I'm
> > enquiring about.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > Damo
> >
> > --
> > damien clan .
> > @ mcbain com
> >
> > there's no place like 127.0.0.1
> >
> >
>
>