wrote in message
news:1103615508.830830.275610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> MuckDonalds is freaking out over falling growth in revenues - this is
> caused at least in part by people voting with their feet as a result of
> the bad PR MuckDonalds got over the McLibel trial.
>

Oh fuck off. The big M has always been first and foremost a real-estate
company. It matters little what slop they serve, 80% of profit is done in
land deals.

Mark Addinall.

From:	Gregory Toomey
Subject:	Re: Boycotting immoral companies "Doesn't Work"
Date:	Wed, 05 Jan 2005 23:15:03 +1000

Mark Addinall wrote:

>
> wrote in message
> news:1103615508.830830.275610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> MuckDonalds is freaking out over falling growth in revenues - this is
>> caused at least in part by people voting with their feet as a result of
>> the bad PR MuckDonalds got over the McLibel trial.
>>
>
> Oh fuck off. The big M has always been first and foremost a real-estate
> company. It matters little what slop they serve, 80% of profit is done in
> land deals.
>
> Mark Addinall.

So is Harvey Norman. They real estate is generally held by Gerry Harvey's
private companies.

gtoomey

From:	Mr. Other Side of Story
Subject:	Re: Boycotting immoral companies "Doesn't Work"
Date:	Thu, 6 Jan 2005 01:57:04 -0800

Unfortunately people are used to voting once every three years or so but not
so used the more effective method of 'voting with their dollar' or
'purchasing power' I mean I get people for example complaining about child
labour, yet they buy shoes made by children on very low wages, they complain
about their unions yet they pay each fortnite into their union etc etc. I
think people mostly just 'grudge and bear it' as long as the pain is
bearable. When was the last time 'big brother controlled' schools taught the
subject of 'voting with your dollar'? Its virtually an unknown concept is it
not?

From:	Walter Plinge
Subject:	Re: Boycotting immoral companies "Doesn't Work"
Date:	Fri, 7 Jan 2005 16:54:33 +1100

What the fu.....?

"Mr. Other Side of Story" wrote in message
news:41dc0068$0$25526$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Unfortunately people are used to voting once every three years or so but
> not so used the more effective method of 'voting with their dollar' or
> 'purchasing power' I mean I get people for example complaining about child
> labour, yet they buy shoes made by children on very low wages, they
> complain about their unions yet they pay each fortnite into their union
> etc etc. I think people mostly just 'grudge and bear it' as long as the
> pain is bearable. When was the last time 'big brother controlled' schools
> taught the subject of 'voting with your dollar'? Its virtually an unknown
> concept is it not?
>

From:	Harry Snape
Subject:	Re: Boycotting immoral companies "Doesn't Work"
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 00:29:15 +1100

Gregory Toomey wrote:
> Mark Addinall wrote:
>
>
>> wrote in message
>>news:1103615508.830830.275610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>MuckDonalds is freaking out over falling growth in revenues - this is
>>>caused at least in part by people voting with their feet as a result of
>>>the bad PR MuckDonalds got over the McLibel trial.
>>>
>>
>>Oh fuck off. The big M has always been first and foremost a real-estate
>>company. It matters little what slop they serve, 80% of profit is done in
>>land deals.
>>
>>Mark Addinall.
>
>
> So is Harvey Norman. They real estate is generally held by Gerry Harvey's
> private companies.
>
> gtoomey
Harvey Norman reported $200M profit in 2004.
None of that profit was earned on sales of real estate.

Gerry Harvey's private companies are not Harvey Norman.
They neither contribute to its profits nor are they owned by Harvey
Norman and its shareholders.

If his private companies make money in real estate, then it has nothing
to do with Harvey Norman other than perhaps having them as a tenant.
So your characterisation of HN as a real estate company is way off beam.

From:	Conehead
Subject:	Re: Boycotting immoral companies "Doesn't Work"
Date:	Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:34:12 +1100

Mark Addinall wrote in message
news:eS6yd.84132$K7.2538@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> wrote in message
> news:1103615508.830830.275610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > MuckDonalds is freaking out over falling growth in revenues - this is
> > caused at least in part by people voting with their feet as a result of
> > the bad PR MuckDonalds got over the McLibel trial.
> >
>
> Oh fuck off. The big M has always been first and foremost a real-estate
> company. It matters little what slop they serve, 80% of profit is done in
> land deals.
>
> Mark Addinall.
>
>
If you could post some support for your claim, I'd be very interested to
read it, Mark.

--
Conehead

From:	Mark Addinall
Subject:	Re: Boycotting immoral companies "Doesn't Work"
Date:	Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:00:16 GMT

"Conehead" wrote in message
news:32ste9F3p0tdmU1@individual.net...
>
> Mark Addinall wrote in message
> news:eS6yd.84132$K7.2538@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> wrote in message
>> news:1103615508.830830.275610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > MuckDonalds is freaking out over falling growth in revenues - this is
>> > caused at least in part by people voting with their feet as a result of
>> > the bad PR MuckDonalds got over the McLibel trial.
>> >
>>
>> Oh fuck off. The big M has always been first and foremost a real-estate
>> company. It matters little what slop they serve, 80% of profit is done
>> in
>> land deals.
>>
>> Mark Addinall.
>>
>>
> If you could post some support for your claim, I'd be very interested to
> read it, Mark.

No sweat.

"New franchisees enter the McDonald's system by acquiring a franchise for a
new or existing restaurant.
The following financial resources are considered for acceptance into the
franchise training program. We require a minimum of $75,000 of non-borrowed
personal resources to consider an individual for a franchise.

Non-borrowed personal resources considered are:

a.. Cash on Hand
b.. Securities, bonds and debentures
c.. Vested profit sharing (net of taxes)
d.. Business or Real Estate Equity (exclusive of personal residence)
"That last one is a hint".
McDonald's does not provide financing or loan guarantees, nor does it permit
absentee investors.

Existing Restaurants

The purchase price of an existing restaurant is dependent upon a number of
factors and is negotiated with the selling franchisee. Some of the costs to
be considered in the purchase of an existing restaurant include:

a) purchase price paid to selling franchisee,

b) sales or transfer taxes,

c) reinvestment needs of the restaurant, and

d) ongoing fees. The Franchisee must pay twenty-five percent (25%) of the
total costs from non-borrowed personal resources. The individual may finance
the remainder from traditional sources.'

I'm not a BigM basher. They have a bloody fantastic business model. They
post 4 billion from the sales of crap,

but hold 20 times that much in real-estate value.

------------------------------

The McDonald's franchise represents a chance to run your own business
without being alone. You will be supported by the world famous McDonald's
system, in the areas of operations, training, advertising, marketing, real
estate, construction, purchasing and equipment.

McDonald's franchises restaurants to individuals only. Never to companies,
partnerships, family groups or passive investors. However, many of our
franchisees operate their businesses as husband and wife teams.

Before an individual can become a franchisee they must successfully complete
our training programme, which usually takes around nine months (see
Training).

Franchisees must have an active, hands-on, day-to-day involvement in the
operation of the restaurant. No other business interests are allowed.

We franchise existing trading restaurants; it is not necessary for
applicants to source sites.

Franchisees run their restaurant(s) as an independent business. They are
responsible for all normal business functions i.e. recruiting, accounting
and administration.

Independent companies supply all raw materials, goods and services to each
restaurant. McDonald's must approve all products used in the restaurant.
McDonald's restaurants are usually purchased by a combination of bank
finance and personal capital. Candidates must have a minimum of 25% of the
total purchase price in non-borrowed funds. The remainder cost may be
financed through a bank. McDonald's does not provide any financing.

McDonald's franchise one restaurant at a time. However, over time
franchisees may operate more than one restaurant. The granting of additional
restaurant franchises is dependant on the franchisees ability to develop the
existing restaurant(s), and maintain excellent standards.

McDonald's Franchise Agreement is for twenty years.

* Here is the BOING*

Under this agreement the real estate and buildings are owned by McDonald's
(or McDonald's hold the head-lease), the restaurant equipment (Kitchen
equipment, decor, seating, fixtures and fittings), are purchased by the
franchisee.

Franchisees are expected to maintain the restaurant décor and building
fabric to a high standard. They take on a fully-repairing lease from
McDonald's and are responsible for the refurbishment of the restaurant
during the whole of the franchise term.

At the end of the twenty-year franchise term, a new franchise agreement (of
twenty years) may be drawn up. This is dependant on the franchisees desire
to take up a new franchise term (& conditions), and their track record of
running the restaurant throughout the franchise term. Franchisees may only
sell approved McDonald's products through their restaurants.

Neat hey?

So that Big Macs just of the main drag in Paris is operated, maintained and
staffed by a

franchisee, but the real estate is owned by the corporation. How much land
do you

reckon sits under the arches?

Mark Addinall.

>
> --
> Conehead
>
>
>

From:	Conehead
Subject:	Re: Boycotting immoral companies "Doesn't Work"
Date:	Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:43:55 +1100

Mark Addinall wrote in message
news:k_Iyd.86415$K7.45630@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Conehead" wrote in message
> news:32ste9F3p0tdmU1@individual.net...
> >
> > Mark Addinall wrote in message
> > news:eS6yd.84132$K7.2538@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >>
> >> wrote in message
> >> news:1103615508.830830.275610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >> > MuckDonalds is freaking out over falling growth in revenues - this is
> >> > caused at least in part by people voting with their feet as a result
of
> >> > the bad PR MuckDonalds got over the McLibel trial.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Oh fuck off. The big M has always been first and foremost a
real-estate
> >> company. > >>
> >> Mark Addinall.
> >>
> >>
> > If you could post some support for your claim, I'd be very interested to
> > read it, Mark.
>
> No sweat.
>
> "New franchisees enter the McDonald's system by acquiring a franchise for
a
> new or existing restaurant.
> The following financial resources are considered for acceptance into the
> franchise training program. We require a minimum of $75,000 of
non-borrowed
> personal resources to consider an individual for a franchise.
>
> Non-borrowed personal resources considered are:
>
> a.. Cash on Hand
> b.. Securities, bonds and debentures
> c.. Vested profit sharing (net of taxes)
> d.. Business or Real Estate Equity (exclusive of personal residence)
> "That last one is a hint".
> McDonald's does not provide financing or loan guarantees, nor does it
permit
> absentee investors.
>
> Existing Restaurants
>
> The purchase price of an existing restaurant is dependent upon a number of
> factors and is negotiated with the selling franchisee. Some of the costs
to
> be considered in the purchase of an existing restaurant include:
>
>
> a) purchase price paid to selling franchisee,
>
> b) sales or transfer taxes,
>
> c) reinvestment needs of the restaurant, and
>
> d) ongoing fees. The Franchisee must pay twenty-five percent (25%) of
the
> total costs from non-borrowed personal resources. The individual may
finance
> the remainder from traditional sources.'
>
>
>
> I'm not a BigM basher. They have a bloody fantastic business model.
They
> post 4 billion from the sales of crap,
>
> but hold 20 times that much in real-estate value.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> The McDonald's franchise represents a chance to run your own business
> without being alone. You will be supported by the world famous McDonald's
> system, in the areas of operations, training, advertising, marketing, real
> estate, construction, purchasing and equipment.
>
> McDonald's franchises restaurants to individuals only. Never to companies,
> partnerships, family groups or passive investors. However, many of our
> franchisees operate their businesses as husband and wife teams.
>
> Before an individual can become a franchisee they must successfully
complete
> our training programme, which usually takes around nine months (see
> Training).
>
> Franchisees must have an active, hands-on, day-to-day involvement in the
> operation of the restaurant. No other business interests are allowed.
>
> We franchise existing trading restaurants; it is not necessary for
> applicants to source sites.
>
> Franchisees run their restaurant(s) as an independent business. They are
> responsible for all normal business functions i.e. recruiting, accounting
> and administration.
>
> Independent companies supply all raw materials, goods and services to each
> restaurant. McDonald's must approve all products used in the restaurant.
> McDonald's restaurants are usually purchased by a combination of bank
> finance and personal capital. Candidates must have a minimum of 25% of the
> total purchase price in non-borrowed funds. The remainder cost may be
> financed through a bank. McDonald's does not provide any financing.
>
> McDonald's franchise one restaurant at a time. However, over time
> franchisees may operate more than one restaurant. The granting of
additional
> restaurant franchises is dependant on the franchisees ability to develop
the
> existing restaurant(s), and maintain excellent standards.
>
> McDonald's Franchise Agreement is for twenty years.
>
> * Here is the BOING*
>
>
>
> Under this agreement the real estate and buildings are owned by McDonald's
> (or McDonald's hold the head-lease), the restaurant equipment (Kitchen
> equipment, decor, seating, fixtures and fittings), are purchased by the
> franchisee.
>
> Franchisees are expected to maintain the restaurant décor and building
> fabric to a high standard. They take on a fully-repairing lease from
> McDonald's and are responsible for the refurbishment of the restaurant
> during the whole of the franchise term.
>
> At the end of the twenty-year franchise term, a new franchise agreement
(of
> twenty years) may be drawn up. This is dependant on the franchisees desire
> to take up a new franchise term (& conditions), and their track record of
> running the restaurant throughout the franchise term. Franchisees may only
> sell approved McDonald's products through their restaurants.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Neat hey?
>
> So that Big Macs just of the main drag in Paris is operated, maintained
and
> staffed by a
>
> franchisee, but the real estate is owned by the corporation. How much
land
> do you
>
> reckon sits under the arches?
>
> Mark Addinall.
>
>
I was seeking evidence of your "It matters little what slop they serve, 80%
of profit is done in land deals" claim. The fact that they own real-estate
is a given. It's the level of profit derived from holding real-estate vs
the level of profit made from owning the rights to the master franchise and
operations that interests me.
So far, you haven't come close to addressing it.

--
Conehead

From:	antimony
Subject:	Re: Boycotting immoral companies "Doesn't Work"
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:18:44 +1000

"Conehead" wrote in message
news:333rfuF3s7ru1U1@individual.net...
>
> Mark Addinall wrote in message
> news:k_Iyd.86415$K7.45630@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Conehead" wrote in message
>> news:32ste9F3p0tdmU1@individual.net...
>> >
>> > Mark Addinall wrote in message
>> > news:eS6yd.84132$K7.2538@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> >>
>> >> wrote in message
>> >> news:1103615508.830830.275610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

>> >> The big M has always been first and foremost a
> real-estate
>> >> company. > >>
>> >> Mark Addinall.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > If you could post some support for your claim, I'd be very interested
>> > to
>> > read it, Mark.

latest article i could find, circa march 03:
http://www.licenseenews.com/news/news181.html

not 80% but certainly majority of its profits. in fact Harry Sonneborn -
former maccas CFO under Ray Kroc way back when Kroc bought it from the
mcdonalds bros - pioneered this as a business model.

see also:
http://www.forbes.com/global/2001/1210/032_print.html

antimony
***fuzzy&blue***

From:	Harry Snape
Subject:	Re: Boycotting immoral companies "Doesn't Work"
Date:	Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:10:36 +1100

Conehead wrote:
> Mark Addinall wrote in message
> news:eS6yd.84132$K7.2538@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>> wrote in message
>>news:1103615508.830830.275610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>MuckDonalds is freaking out over falling growth in revenues - this is
>>>caused at least in part by people voting with their feet as a result of
>>>the bad PR MuckDonalds got over the McLibel trial.
>>>
>>
>>Oh fuck off. The big M has always been first and foremost a real-estate
>>company. It matters little what slop they serve, 80% of profit is done in
>>land deals.
>>
>>Mark Addinall.
>>
>>
>
> If you could post some support for your claim, I'd be very interested to
> read it, Mark.
>
> --
> Conehead
>
>
>
Good luck, I'm still waiting for him to publish his world shattering Web
hosting research paper which has produced during his current stint as an
academic at QUT.

From:	Mark Addinall
Subject:	Re: Boycotting immoral companies "Doesn't Work"
Date:	Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:01:35 GMT

"Harry Snape" wrote in message
news:41c9562c$0$6542$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Conehead wrote:
>> Mark Addinall wrote in message
>> news:eS6yd.84132$K7.2538@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>>> wrote in message
>>>news:1103615508.830830.275610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>MuckDonalds is freaking out over falling growth in revenues - this is
>>>>caused at least in part by people voting with their feet as a result of
>>>>the bad PR MuckDonalds got over the McLibel trial.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Oh fuck off. The big M has always been first and foremost a real-estate
>>>company. It matters little what slop they serve, 80% of profit is done
>>>in
>>>land deals.
>>>
>>>Mark Addinall.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If you could post some support for your claim, I'd be very interested to
>> read it, Mark.
>>
>> --
>> Conehead
>>
>>
>>
> Good luck, I'm still waiting for him to publish his world shattering Web
> hosting research paper which has produced during his current stint as an
> academic at QUT.

I'll publish a paper for you. I'll need $50,000 up front.
When can I expect payment?

Mark Addinall.