"VICTORIANS will be banned from smoking on beaches, at playgrounds, near
hospitals and on streets outside offices under new anti-smoking laws.
....
Opposition Health spokesman David Davis admitted the leaked documents
were the basis for the Liberals' smoking policy"
(http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,12022971%255E26462,00.html)

Liberals' true colours revealed - 'we know better' socialist control freaks

From:	Annette Lovelace
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:26:46 +1100

"B J Foster" wrote in message news:41F2D04D.5010906@yahoo.com...
> "VICTORIANS will be banned from smoking on beaches, at playgrounds, near hospitals and
> on streets outside offices under new anti-smoking laws.
> ...
> Opposition Health spokesman David Davis admitted the leaked documents were the basis for
> the Liberals' smoking policy"
> (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,12022971%255E26462,00.html)
>
> Liberals' true colours revealed - 'we know better' socialist control freaks
>
So its illeagal then to smoke a joint in victoria , oohhh feck there goes my plantation
then , and it was only for my consumpion though , how wicked are these politicians

Annette ...

From:	bernxard at yahoo.com.au
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	22 Jan 2005 14:51:44 -0800

If cigaretes didn't emit obnoxious and dangerous smoke there wouldn't
be a problem.

I for one am sick of walking into someone elses smoke fumes while
trying to cross the street and waiting a traffic lights pedestrain
crossing.

Even having a sunny breakfast at a cafe' al afresco style can turn into
a missery becuase of the concentration of smokers moving outside.

I don't think smokers appreciate how truely unpleaseant their smoke is.

This is not a matter of 'socialism' it is a matter of your right to
smoke versus my right to clean and pleaseant air in the same public
spaces.

It is indeed a pitty that we have crowded our cities so much (due to
the pro immigration stance of St African Yids like you) that non
smokers and smokers desires conflict so often.

I am glad that you are a smoker. It means that your life will be
forshortened more than mine.

Go and smoke at home you filthy prick.

From:	Trevor S
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:04:09 GMT

bernxard@yahoo.com.au wrote in news:1106434304.654188.250580
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> If cigaretes didn't emit obnoxious and dangerous smoke there wouldn't
> be a problem.
>
> I for one am sick of walking into someone elses smoke fumes while
> trying to cross the street and waiting a traffic lights pedestrain
> crossing.

Okay, now you MUST be takng the piss. Clean air, at a traffic light ?
That's like saying "honest politician"... You're okay with the huge
amounts of carcegonens coming from cars but cig. smoke fumes send you
into a tizz huh ? Must be the car fumes have affected your ability to
think.

> Even having a sunny breakfast at a cafe' al afresco style can turn into
> a missery becuase of the concentration of smokers moving outside.

Go inside, not only do you miss the smokers, you have less chance of the
real nasty stuff that's coming from cars.

> I don't think smokers appreciate how truely unpleaseant their smoke is.

I don't think it's that, they just don't care/consider, same as you don't
care/consider there "right" to suck it into their lungs.

> This is not a matter of 'socialism' it is a matter of your right to
> smoke versus my right to clean and pleaseant air in the same public
> spaces.

Horse shit, if you live in a City there is no clean and pleasent air...

> It is indeed a pitty that we have crowded our cities so much (due to
> the pro immigration stance of St African Yids like you) that non
> smokers and smokers desires conflict so often.

What "right" have you got to tell anyone where to live ? You seem happy
to tell them where to smoke though huh ?

> I am glad that you are a smoker. It means that your life will be
> forshortened more than mine.

How so ?

--
Trevor S

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

From:	Mike Price
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:03:06 +0800

On 23 Jan 2005 10:04:09 GMT, Trevor S wrote:

>
>> If cigaretes didn't emit obnoxious and dangerous smoke there wouldn't
>> be a problem.
>>
>> I for one am sick of walking into someone elses smoke fumes while
>> trying to cross the street and waiting a traffic lights pedestrain
>> crossing.
>
>Okay, now you MUST be takng the piss. Clean air, at a traffic light ?
>That's like saying "honest politician"... You're okay with the huge
>amounts of carcegonens coming from cars but cig. smoke fumes send you
>into a tizz huh ? Must be the car fumes have affected your ability to
>think.

Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
When i do the rounds of the flea markets on Sunday Morning, the
morning air is quite refreshing, that is until about 9AM when the
smokers come out to wander around the place, streaming cigarette smoke
all around and turning it into a nightmare for the rest of us. There
should be no smoking in public - period. Burswood Casino here in WA
is a delight to go to now that smoking is banned, it used to be a
horrible, smoke infested shithole. You had to practically burn your
clothes after a night out.

From:	Trevor S
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	23 Jan 2005 11:51:38 GMT

Mike Price wrote in
news:gv07v0dmqufcg739fk0jlp5uho35h852ca@4ax.com:

> Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.

You must not cycle in traffic much ? Definetly worse...

> When i do the rounds of the flea markets on Sunday Morning, the
> morning air is quite refreshing, that is until about 9AM when the
> smokers come out to wander around the place, streaming cigarette smoke
> all around and turning it into a nightmare for the rest of us. There
> should be no smoking in public - period.

I disagree with that, as a non-smoker I feel I don't have the right to
force my will onto others and I certinaly don't want the Government
involved. I manage to enjoy myself doing things not involving smokers and
don't feel the need to stop smokers "enjoying" a puff. I just do not
associate with them.

> Burswood Casino here in WA is a delight to go to

Mmmmmmmm it's a Casino ! Of the 20 or so I have been to around the world,
the adjective "delight" would be the furthest from my mind when visiting
any of them. Personally I equate those using Casinos right up there with
those smoking but I certinaly have no right to impose my will on either
group.

> now that smoking is banned, it used to be a
> horrible, smoke infested shithole. You had to practically burn your
> clothes after a night out.

errrrr then ignore the place, if there was a big enough group like you,
business would build a place to meet your needs.

--
Trevor S

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

From:	Mike Price
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:38:48 +0800

On 23 Jan 2005 11:51:38 GMT, Trevor S wrote:

>I disagree with that, as a non-smoker I feel I don't have the right to
>force my will onto others and I certinaly don't want the Government
>involved. I manage to enjoy myself doing things not involving smokers and
>don't feel the need to stop smokers "enjoying" a puff. I just do not
>associate with them.

Look up the dictionary definition of "public place' you goose. Im not
"associating" with smokers, there just happen to be smokers in just
about every public place you could hope to go where it isn't currently
banned. I have no problem with smokers "enjoying a puff" either, as
long as it isn't in a public area where any non smoker might be
invonvenienced or even have his health jeopardised by that enjoyment.

I have no problem with people "enjoying" a drag race either, but Im
sure glad the government "gets involved" and bans it from taking place
in public streets. Sure, I could avoid the streets if I wanted, but
why should I have to? Im not the one doing something offensive.

From:	Trevor S
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	24 Jan 2005 06:55:01 GMT

Mike Price wrote in
news:o0a7v01ebqridkvavsoie98ugldc8rd7ur@4ax.com:

> Look up the dictionary definition of "public place' you goose. Im not
> "associating" with smokers, there just happen to be smokers in just
> about every public place you could hope to go where it isn't currently
> banned.

That's because they are people.. the point was they have as much right as
YOU to be there, why should THEY move because YOU don't like it. I say
each to their own. IF I go to a public space and I am surrounded by
smokers, I leave... I don't have a problem with that nor do I cry like a
baby about them offending me.

> I have no problem with smokers "enjoying a puff" either,

Yeah you do, you want to control them.

> I have no problem with people "enjoying" a drag race either, but Im
> sure glad the government "gets involved" and bans it from taking place
> in public streets. Sure, I could avoid the streets if I wanted, but
> why should I have to? Im not the one doing something offensive.

I woudl disgaree VEHEMETLY with that, the last line I mean. Look up
offensive in the dictionary goose :) Have you stopped to think the "drag
racers" might think you stopping them by bitchign to the Govermnment is
offensive ? So, if they think you offensive, why don't they have every
right to have YOU removed.

The only group of people who "offend me" are those trying to impose their
will on others.

--
Trevor S

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

From:	Mike Price
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:41:19 +0800

On 23 Jan 2005 11:51:38 GMT, Trevor S wrote:

>> Burswood Casino here in WA is a delight to go to
>
>Mmmmmmmm it's a Casino ! Of the 20 or so I have been to around the world,
>the adjective "delight" would be the furthest from my mind when visiting
>any of them. Personally I equate those using Casinos right up there with
>those smoking but I certinaly have no right to impose my will on either
>group.

The seediness level of casinos has come down several billion notches
in Australia since smoking was banned. Feel free to equate gambling
with smoking, the difference is, it's easy to avoid gambling. Now if
we want to build special centres for smokers to get together and smoke
and take it away from the rest of us, Id support it with glee.

From:	Trevor S
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	24 Jan 2005 06:56:37 GMT

Mike Price wrote in
news:g8a7v01egcqudvspa23tcb76ja3948c82i@4ax.com:

> The seediness level of casinos has come down several billion notches
> in Australia since smoking was banned.

I disagree with that.

--
Trevor S

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

From:	Jacques Guy
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000

Mike Price wrote:

> Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.

That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
bogus points.

And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
is dead easy.

Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
area.

You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.

From:	Mike Price
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:36:45 +0800

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
wrote:

>Mike Price wrote:
>
>> Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
>
>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>bogus points.
>
>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>is dead easy.
>
>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>area.
>
>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.

No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
about just on par.

Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
personal vendetta against smokers or something?

From:	Trevor S
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	24 Jan 2005 07:01:20 GMT

Mike Price wrote in
news:ogd7v0tb0itspmv5edgkbvrubun7j5gugu@4ax.com:

> No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
> cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
> that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
> about just on par.

Jeebusus, so you need to go do some research.. not much continuing the
"debate" in this case, cars don't emit deodrant.

> Why the hell would anyone lie about this?

One can only wonder...

> If car fumes bothered us so
> much surely we would complain about them as well.

Lots of poeple do, doesn't get the attention of smoking fumes... yet :)

> Are we supposed to
> not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
> personal vendetta against smokers or something?

No but I have no doubt some people find hypocrisy as offensive as you find
ciggy fumes :)

--
Trevor S

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

From:	B J Foster
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:49:26 +1100

Mike Price wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
> wrote:
>
>
>>Mike Price wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
>>
>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>bogus points.
>>
>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>is dead easy.
>>
>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>area.
>>
>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>
>
> No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
> cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
> that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
> about just on par.
>
> Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
> much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
> not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
> personal vendetta against smokers or something?

Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.

From:	Trevor Wilson
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:19:24 +1100

"B J Foster" wrote in message
news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>
>
> Mike Price wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
>>>
>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>bogus points.
>>>
>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>is dead easy.
>>>
>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>area.
>>>
>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>
>>
>> No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>> cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>> that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
>> about just on par.
>>
>> Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>> much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>> not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>> personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>
>
> Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.

**Point:

Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

From:	Bernd Felsche
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:46:36 +0800

"Trevor Wilson" writes:
>"B J Foster" wrote in message
>news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>> Mike Price wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>> wrote:

>>> Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>>> much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>> not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>> personal vendetta against smokers or something?

>> Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.

>**Point:

>Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
>virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.

Go on then; try it!

The CO2 in the exhaust will kill you unless you get enough oxygen;
which the CO2 from motor vehicles will *displace*.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus!
X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature
/ \ and postings | to help me spread!

From:	Trevor Wilson
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:07:49 +1100

"Bernd Felsche" wrote in message
news:c4tdc2xrmi.ln2@innovative.iinet.net.au...
> "Trevor Wilson" writes:
>>"B J Foster" wrote in message
>>news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>>> Mike Price wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>>> wrote:
>
>>>> Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>>>> much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>>> not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>>> personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>
>>> Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.
>
>>**Point:
>
>>Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
>>virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>
> Go on then; try it!
>
> The CO2 in the exhaust will kill you unless you get enough oxygen;
> which the CO2 from motor vehicles will *displace*.

**Nice try. We're discussing CO, not CO2.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

From:	B J Foster
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:57:57 +1100

Trevor Wilson wrote:
> "B J Foster" wrote in message
> news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>
>>
>>Mike Price wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
>>>>
>>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>>bogus points.
>>>>
>>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>>is dead easy.
>>>>
>>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>>area.
>>>>
>>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>>
>>>
>>>No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>>>cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>>>that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
>>>about just on par.
>>>
>>>Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>>>much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>>not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>>personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>>
>>
>>Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.
>
>
> **Point:
>
> Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
> virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>
>

And lead, also virtually undetectable and which atrophies the brain.
You ought to spend less time in the traffic mate

From:	Trevor Wilson
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:06:03 +1100

"B J Foster" wrote in message
news:41F43A05.5000307@yahoo.com...
>
>
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>> news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>>
>>>
>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>>>bogus points.
>>>>>
>>>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>>>is dead easy.
>>>>>
>>>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>>>area.
>>>>>
>>>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>>>>cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>>>>that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
>>>>about just on par.
>>>>
>>>>Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>>>>much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>>>not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>>>personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>>>
>>>
>>>Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.
>>
>>
>> **Point:
>>
>> Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
>> virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>>
>>
>
> And lead, also virtually undetectable and which atrophies the brain.
> You ought to spend less time in the traffic mate

**It sure does. Oh, BTW: Lead was removed from all Australian fuel, several
years ago, for that very reason.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

From:	Mark Addinall
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:08:53 GMT

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
news:35isflF4mr6s4U1@individual.net...
>
> "B J Foster" wrote in message
> news:41F43A05.5000307@yahoo.com...
>>
>>
>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>>> news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>>>>bogus points.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>>>>is dead easy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>>>>area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>>>>>cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>>>>>that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
>>>>>about just on par.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>>>>>much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>>>>not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>>>>personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.
>>>
>>>
>>> **Point:
>>>
>>> Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
>>> virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And lead, also virtually undetectable and which atrophies the brain.
>> You ought to spend less time in the traffic mate
>
> **It sure does. Oh, BTW: Lead was removed from all Australian fuel,
> several years ago, for that very reason.

Sure, the properties of TEL and TML were known to be dangerous for
decades. Now to improve the octane ratio, we add benzene. Oh happy joy!

Explain to me how this is better...

Mark Addinall.

>
>
> --
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au
>

From:	Trevor Wilson
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:28:00 +1100

"Mark Addinall" wrote in message
news:FUXId.131469$K7.98321@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
> news:35isflF4mr6s4U1@individual.net...
>>
>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>> news:41F43A05.5000307@yahoo.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>>>> news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>>>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>>>>>bogus points.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>>>>>is dead easy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>>>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>>>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>>>>>area.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>>>>>>cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>>>>>>that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
>>>>>>about just on par.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>>>>>>much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>>>>>not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>>>>>personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Point:
>>>>
>>>> Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
>>>> virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> And lead, also virtually undetectable and which atrophies the brain.
>>> You ought to spend less time in the traffic mate
>>
>> **It sure does. Oh, BTW: Lead was removed from all Australian fuel,
>> several years ago, for that very reason.
>
> Sure, the properties of TEL and TML were known to be dangerous for
> decades. Now to improve the octane ratio, we add benzene. Oh happy joy!
>
> Explain to me how this is better...

**I don't need to. The previous moron going by the name of B J Foster made
reference to lead in fuel. I responded accordingly. As anyone with an IQ
above room temperature is well aware, lead has not been in Australian fuels,
for several years. The fact that lead is no longer in fuels does not suggest
that there are other, highly toxic chemicals remaining.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

From:	RT
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:49:47 +1000

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
news:35j19aF4n3m8kU1@individual.net...
>
> "Mark Addinall" wrote in message
> news:FUXId.131469$K7.98321@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
>> news:35isflF4mr6s4U1@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>>> news:41F43A05.5000307@yahoo.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>>>>> news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette
>>>>>>>>>fumes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>>>>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>>>>>>bogus points.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>>>>>>is dead easy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>>>>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>>>>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>>>>>>area.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>>>>>>>cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>>>>>>>that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is
>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>about just on par.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>>>>>>>much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>>>>>>not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>>>>>>personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Point:
>>>>>
>>>>> Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
>>>>> virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And lead, also virtually undetectable and which atrophies the brain.
>>>> You ought to spend less time in the traffic mate
>>>
>>> **It sure does. Oh, BTW: Lead was removed from all Australian fuel,
>>> several years ago, for that very reason.
>>
>> Sure, the properties of TEL and TML were known to be dangerous for
>> decades. Now to improve the octane ratio, we add benzene. Oh happy joy!
>>
>> Explain to me how this is better...
>
> **I don't need to. The previous moron going by the name of B J Foster made
> reference to lead in fuel. I responded accordingly. As anyone with an IQ
> above room temperature is well aware, lead has not been in Australian
> fuels, for several years. The fact that lead is no longer in fuels does
> not suggest that there are other, highly toxic chemicals remaining.
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au

So how do you move from A to B, Trevor? You can't use anything with an IC
engine due the insidious poisons they belch. You can't use a horse
(methane). So what do you do, sweetie? Walk - or ride a pushie?

I DO hope it's not a pushie - or haven't you checked to find the pollutants
produced during their manufacture?

Or are you just another self-abusing hypocrite?

And for illumination? You obviously can't use the electricity grid as it's
responsible for tonnes of CO2.

Which raises an interesting point. How do you post to newsgroups without
polluting the atmosphere we all breathe?

You have a treadle-powered generator?

Or are you just another self-abusing hypocrite?

Cooking - I do hope you don't use an open fire with its belching carcinogens
and smog-forming chemicals. So that leaves solar. Pity if you get home
after dark.

Or are you just another self-abusing hypocrite?

Etc etc etc

You're a wanker's wanker, Trevor.

From:	Mike Price
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:41:09 +0800

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:49:47 +1000, "RT"
wrote:

>So how do you move from A to B, Trevor? You can't use anything with an IC
>engine due the insidious poisons they belch. You can't use a horse
>(methane). So what do you do, sweetie? Walk - or ride a pushie?

Why are we even discussing cars? We may as well be talking about
people breathing out c02. There is no comparison between the
obtrusiveness and offensiveness of cigarette smoke and of car exhaust.
It's about the most ridiculous strawman I have ever seen built.

From:	Mark Addinall
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:47:27 GMT

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
news:35j19aF4n3m8kU1@individual.net...
>
> "Mark Addinall" wrote in message
> news:FUXId.131469$K7.98321@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
>> news:35isflF4mr6s4U1@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>>> news:41F43A05.5000307@yahoo.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>>>>> news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette
>>>>>>>>>fumes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>>>>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>>>>>>bogus points.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>>>>>>is dead easy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>>>>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>>>>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>>>>>>area.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>>>>>>>cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>>>>>>>that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is
>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>about just on par.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>>>>>>>much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>>>>>>not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>>>>>>personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Point:
>>>>>
>>>>> Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
>>>>> virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And lead, also virtually undetectable and which atrophies the brain.
>>>> You ought to spend less time in the traffic mate
>>>
>>> **It sure does. Oh, BTW: Lead was removed from all Australian fuel,
>>> several years ago, for that very reason.
>>
>> Sure, the properties of TEL and TML were known to be dangerous for
>> decades. Now to improve the octane ratio, we add benzene. Oh happy joy!
>>
>> Explain to me how this is better...
>
> **I don't need to.

Not willing to venture into that area we like to call "science"?

> The previous moron going by the name of B J Foster made reference to lead
> in fuel. I responded accordingly. As anyone with an IQ above room
> temperature is well aware, lead has not been in Australian fuels, for
> several years.

Wanna bet I can't trace some pb in modern fuels? How much are you
good for?

> The fact that lead is no longer in fuels does not suggest that there are
> other, highly toxic chemicals remaining.

Oh goody. And removing smokers from the beach will help this how?

Mark Addinall.

>
>
> --
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au
>

From:	Trevor Wilson
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:28:48 +1100

"Mark Addinall" wrote in message
news:3lZId.131541$K7.114437@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>
> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
> news:35j19aF4n3m8kU1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Mark Addinall" wrote in message
>> news:FUXId.131469$K7.98321@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
>>> news:35isflF4mr6s4U1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>>>> news:41F43A05.5000307@yahoo.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette
>>>>>>>>>>fumes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>>>>>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>>>>>>>bogus points.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>>>>>>>is dead easy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>>>>>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>>>>>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>>>>>>>area.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>>>>>>>>cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>>>>>>>>that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is
>>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>>about just on par.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us
>>>>>>>>so
>>>>>>>>much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>>>>>>>not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>>>>>>>personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY
>>>>>>>carbon-monoxide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Point:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
>>>>>> virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And lead, also virtually undetectable and which atrophies the brain.
>>>>> You ought to spend less time in the traffic mate
>>>>
>>>> **It sure does. Oh, BTW: Lead was removed from all Australian fuel,
>>>> several years ago, for that very reason.
>>>
>>> Sure, the properties of TEL and TML were known to be dangerous for
>>> decades. Now to improve the octane ratio, we add benzene. Oh happy
>>> joy!
>>>
>>> Explain to me how this is better...
>>
>> **I don't need to.
>
> Not willing to venture into that area we like to call "science"?

**Incorrect. I am always willing to do just that. B J Foster was speaking
about lead in fuel. There is no (at least there is bugger all) lead in
Australian fuels.

>
>> The previous moron going by the name of B J Foster made reference to lead
>> in fuel. I responded accordingly. As anyone with an IQ above room
>> temperature is well aware, lead has not been in Australian fuels, for
>> several years.
>
> Wanna bet I can't trace some pb in modern fuels? How much are you
> good for?

**Since I no longer have any mates in the fuel industry (they left due to
poor working conditions), I can't say. However, I will acknowledge that
there may possibly be traces of lead in fuel.

>
>
>> The fact that lead is no longer in fuels does not suggest that there are
>> other, highly toxic chemicals remaining.
>
> Oh goody. And removing smokers from the beach will help this how?

**We humans will no longer need to put up with foul smelling and toxic fume
emitting losers who are addicted to cigarettes. We also won't have to pay
for the cleanup of those millions of discarded butts on beaches. Don't you
understand this yet? Smokers are a dying breed. Literally and figuratively.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

From:	B J Foster
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:26:06 +1100

Trevor Wilson wrote:
> "Mark Addinall" wrote in message
> news:FUXId.131469$K7.98321@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>>"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
>>news:35isflF4mr6s4U1@individual.net...
>>
>>>"B J Foster" wrote in message
>>>news:41F43A05.5000307@yahoo.com...
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"B J Foster" wrote in message
>>>>>news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>>>>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>>>>>>bogus points.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>>>>>>is dead easy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>>>>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>>>>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>>>>>>area.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>>>>>>>cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>>>>>>>that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
>>>>>>>about just on par.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>>>>>>>much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>>>>>>not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>>>>>>personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>**Point:
>>>>>
>>>>>Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
>>>>>virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And lead, also virtually undetectable and which atrophies the brain.
>>>>You ought to spend less time in the traffic mate
>>>
>>>**It sure does. Oh, BTW: Lead was removed from all Australian fuel,
>>>several years ago, for that very reason.
>>
>>Sure, the properties of TEL and TML were known to be dangerous for
>>decades. Now to improve the octane ratio, we add benzene. Oh happy joy!
>>
>>Explain to me how this is better...
>
>
> **I don't need to. The previous moron going by the name of B J Foster made
> reference to lead in fuel. I responded accordingly. As anyone with an IQ
> above room temperature is well aware, lead has not been in Australian fuels,
> for several years. The fact that lead is no longer in fuels does not suggest
> that there are other, highly toxic chemicals remaining.
>
>

Unfortunately, the effects persist long after the cause is removed. As
we have see in this NG

From:	Trevor Wilson
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:54:14 +1100

"B J Foster" wrote in message
news:41F44EAE.6070006@yahoo.com...
>
>
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> "Mark Addinall" wrote in message
>> news:FUXId.131469$K7.98321@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>>>"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
>>>news:35isflF4mr6s4U1@individual.net...
>>>
>>>>"B J Foster" wrote in message
>>>>news:41F43A05.5000307@yahoo.com...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"B J Foster" wrote in message
>>>>>>news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette
>>>>>>>>>>fumes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>>>>>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>>>>>>>bogus points.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>>>>>>>is dead easy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>>>>>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>>>>>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>>>>>>>area.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>>>>>>>>cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>>>>>>>>that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is
>>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>>>about just on par.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us
>>>>>>>>so
>>>>>>>>much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>>>>>>>not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>>>>>>>personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY
>>>>>>>carbon-monoxide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>**Point:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
>>>>>>virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>And lead, also virtually undetectable and which atrophies the brain.
>>>>>You ought to spend less time in the traffic mate
>>>>
>>>>**It sure does. Oh, BTW: Lead was removed from all Australian fuel,
>>>>several years ago, for that very reason.
>>>
>>>Sure, the properties of TEL and TML were known to be dangerous for
>>>decades. Now to improve the octane ratio, we add benzene. Oh happy joy!
>>>
>>>Explain to me how this is better...
>>
>>
>> **I don't need to. The previous moron going by the name of B J Foster
>> made reference to lead in fuel. I responded accordingly. As anyone with
>> an IQ above room temperature is well aware, lead has not been in
>> Australian fuels, for several years. The fact that lead is no longer in
>> fuels does not suggest that there are other, highly toxic chemicals
>> remaining.
>>
>>
>
> Unfortunately, the effects persist long after the cause is removed. As we
> have see in this NG

**Do you understand what *plonk* means?

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

From:	Trevor S
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	24 Jan 2005 07:06:16 GMT

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in
news:35ipo6F4l166qU1@individual.net:

> Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
> virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.

as an example:

http://www.aircleaningtech.net/exhausthazards.pdf

The conclusion is that long and even short-term exposure to diesel, gas and
compressed natural gas (CNG) can cause cancer in humans.

The exhaust from all internal combustion engines, including diesel and
gasoline-poweredengines, contains over 100 individual hazardous chemical
components that when combined, can result in as many as 10,000 chemical
compounds. A large majority of these compounds are listed by state and
federal regulatory agencies as being cancer causing or suspected
carcinogens.

--
Trevor S

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

From:	RT
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:34:06 +1000

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
news:35ipo6F4l166qU1@individual.net...
>
> "B J Foster" wrote in message
> news:41F41BE6.7020203@yahoo.com...
>>
>>
>> Mike Price wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mike Price wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
>>>>
>>>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>>>bogus points.
>>>>
>>>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>>>is dead easy.
>>>>
>>>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>>>area.
>>>>
>>>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>>>
>>>
>>> No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
>>> cigarette smoke. About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
>>> that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
>>> about just on par.
>>>
>>> Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
>>> much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
>>> not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
>>> personal vendetta against smokers or something?
>>
>>
>> Car exhaust contains colourless, odourless and DEADLY carbon-monoxide.
>
> **Point:
>
> Modern, PROPERLY maintained automobiles emit so little CO, that it is
> virtually impossible to die by inhaling the exhaust.
>
>
> --
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au

As in effectively ALL your other arguments, you are wrong again. Cites,
please, that the level of CO in internal combustion engine exhausts is EVER
less than lethal.

"rageaudio" - a drummer obviously.

You're not "The Man" in drag, perchance? He's the only other poster so
consistently, persistently wrong....

From:	Mark Addinall
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:05:08 GMT

--
I'm too poor to have a .sig
addinall@addinall.org
"Mike Price" wrote in message
news:ogd7v0tb0itspmv5edgkbvrubun7j5gugu@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:57:55 +1000, Jacques Guy
> wrote:
>
>>Mike Price wrote:
>>
>>> Car fumes don't smell half as acrid and horrible as cigarette fumes.
>>
>>That is lie, an outrageous lie, pure and simple. So what's new?
>>There is no lie you shitheads will stop at to argue for your
>>bogus points.
>>
>>And demonstrating that it is a lie, a stinking, blatant lie,
>>is dead easy.
>>
>>Haul you sorry arse out, stop at the first traffic lights.
>>Count how many cars there are within a radius of, say, 20 metres.
>>Done? Now count how many people are smoking within the same
>>area.
>>
>>You stinking, shitty, despicable low-life professional LIAR.
>
> No, it's not a lie, car exhaust is nowhere near as offensive as
> cigarette smoke.

Benzene: occurs naturally in crude oil. High benzene crudes sometimes added
to fuel to improve the properties of premium unleaded gasoline. Highest
concentration levels outdoors are in urban areas, and especially near petrol
stations, petrol tanks and benzene producing/handling industries. Effects: a
proven carcinogen. Studies on benzene-exposed workers show statistically
significant association to acute leukemia. No safe level of airborne benzene
can be recommended, as benzene is carcinogenic to humans and there is no
known safe threshold level.

Carbon Monoxide: cars are the major source of carbon monoxide, accounting
for over 65 percent of emissions in EC countries. Effects: one of the most
directly toxic substances, it affects human health by impairing the oxygen
carrying capacity of the blood causing impaired perception, slowing reflexes
and drowsiness. It can increase occurrence of headaches and effects the
central nervous system, the heart and the transference of blood around the
body. In large doses, it is fatal.

Nitrogen Dioxide. Effects humans and plants, reducing growth and causing
lesions in sensitive crops, whilst in humans causing irritation to the
respiratory tract, reducing lung function and possibly increasing
susceptibility to viral infections.

Nitric Oxide and Nitrogen Dioxide: together play major role in formation of
acid rain and in Europe are thought to contribute up to half of the
acidification of rain. In EC countries, 47 percent of nitrogen oxides come
from road vehicles. They also contribute to the formation of ground level
ozone, affect the acidification of soil and cause changes in ground
flora-the development of nitrogen loving species at the expense of other
species-and the over development of micro-flora in seas and lakes, creating
a lack of oxygen in the water which kills wildlife.

Low Level Ozone: The production of ozone is an indirect consequence of car
pollution. It results from photochemical reactions between hydrocarbons and
nitrogen oxides. Ozone is the main ingredient in photochemical smog, which
effects eye irritation, headaches, coughing, impaired lung function and eye,
nose and throat irritation. Asthmatics and children are most at risk. On a
single bad day in Athens the smog can kill 8 people and send up to 200
people to hospital. Background levels of tropospheric ozone are thought to
have doubled in the northern hemisphere over the past century. Ozone is also
the single most important pollutant affecting vegetation. It damages food
crops, particularly potatoes, tomatoes, wheat and spinach, with leaf
diseases. This causes farmers to switch to less sensitive crops, leading to
loss of biOdiversity. With present ozone levels in Switzerland, agricultural
losses cost at least US$200 per hectare. Ozone damage also affects forests
in America and Europe-pines and larch are particularly sensitive.

Sulfurous Emissions: cause soil and water acidification, damage to plants
(especially trees, mosses and certain lichens), and smog.

A WHO report found that long term air pollution from cars in Austria,
Switzerland and France triggered an extra 21,000 premature deaths per year
from respiratory or heart diseases-more than the total number of annual
traffic deaths in the three countries.

> About the only car exhaust that even comes close is
> that from a burnt out old bomb blowing oil smoke and even that is only
> about just on par.
>
> Why the hell would anyone lie about this? If car fumes bothered us so
> much surely we would complain about them as well. Are we supposed to
> not really be bothered by cigarette smoke but just have some strange
> personal vendetta against smokers or something?

Idiot.

Mark Addinall.

From:	israel t
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 04:09:24 GMT

>> YOU are the toxic one, shithead, turdface, miserable fascist cunt.
>> The sooner you and the like of you are turned into fertilizer, like
>> your one-time masters did the Jews, the better.

I dislike cigarette smoke in my vicinity.
However, I dislike racists far more.

From:	Heidi's Mail
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:24:04 GMT

wrote in message
news:1106434304.654188.250580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> If cigaretes didn't emit obnoxious and dangerous smoke there wouldn't
> be a problem.
>
> I for one am sick of walking into someone elses smoke fumes while
> trying to cross the street and waiting a traffic lights pedestrain
> crossing.
>
> Even having a sunny breakfast at a cafe' al afresco style can turn into
> a missery becuase of the concentration of smokers moving outside.
>
> I don't think smokers appreciate how truely unpleaseant their smoke is.
>
>
> This is not a matter of 'socialism' it is a matter of your right to
> smoke versus my right to clean and pleaseant air in the same public
> spaces.
>
> It is indeed a pitty that we have crowded our cities so much (due to
> the pro immigration stance of St African Yids like you) that non
> smokers and smokers desires conflict so often.
>
> I am glad that you are a smoker. It means that your life will be
> forshortened more than mine.
>
> Go and smoke at home you filthy prick.

what a pity that you mucked up a, what would have been good post, with such
personal and unnecessary attacks and bad language. I agree with you that
it's not a 'political thing' but comes down to being our right to clean air
as against a smokers right to pacify his/her addiction. Bye the way, I used
to be a very heavy smoker. But when my son and his friends called my car
'the mobile ashtray', I saw the light. It wasn't easy... but I gave it away.
In this day and age, far more is known, and with considerable proof, about
passive smoking. And none of us have the right to subject other human beings
to something as harmful as that. I will always have to live with the
knowledge of having forced my smoke on my son and others around us. Believe
me, it's not a good feeling.
Heidi

From:	Jacques Guy
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:23:48 +1000

Heidi's Mail wrote:
>
> < But when my son and his friends called my car
> 'the mobile ashtray', I saw the light.

You saw the light? You got rid of your car, did you?
Or do you believe that the noxious gases from your
exhaust are nothing compared to those of a
cigarette? Got news for you: even the stinkingest
cigar is nothing compared to your precious car.

So get rid of your car first.

From:	Trevor S
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:10:10 GMT

Jacques Guy wrote in
news:41F2FCA4.7B7C@alphalink.com.au:

> So get rid of your car first.

My thoughts exactly, the hypcoisy is breathtaking.

More so then the "stench" of any ciggie. ;)

--
Trevor S

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

From:	B J Foster
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:47:49 +1100

Heidi's Mail wrote:
> wrote in message
> news:1106434304.654188.250580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>>If cigaretes didn't emit obnoxious and dangerous smoke there wouldn't
>>be a problem.
>>
>>I for one am sick of walking into someone elses smoke fumes while
>>trying to cross the street and waiting a traffic lights pedestrain
>>crossing.
>>
>>Even having a sunny breakfast at a cafe' al afresco style can turn into
>>a missery becuase of the concentration of smokers moving outside.
>>
>>I don't think smokers appreciate how truely unpleaseant their smoke is.
>>
>>
>>This is not a matter of 'socialism' it is a matter of your right to
>>smoke versus my right to clean and pleaseant air in the same public
>>spaces.
>>
>>It is indeed a pitty that we have crowded our cities so much (due to
>>the pro immigration stance of St African Yids like you) that non
>>smokers and smokers desires conflict so often.
>>
>>I am glad that you are a smoker. It means that your life will be
>>forshortened more than mine.
>>
>>Go and smoke at home you filthy prick.
>
>
>
>
> what a pity that you mucked up a, what would have been good post, with such
> personal and unnecessary attacks and bad language. I agree with you that
> it's not a 'political thing' but comes down to being our right to clean air
> as against a smokers right to pacify his/her addiction. Bye the way, I used
> to be a very heavy smoker. But when my son and his friends called my car
> 'the mobile ashtray', I saw the light. It wasn't easy... but I gave it away.
> In this day and age, far more is known, and with considerable proof, about
> passive smoking. And none of us have the right to subject other human beings
> to something as harmful as that. I will always have to live with the
> knowledge of having forced my smoke on my son and others around us. Believe
> me, it's not a good feeling.
> Heidi
>
>

I also used to be a heavy smoker. Deciding whether to smoke around
others is a matter of good manners. If subjected to smoke from an
insensitive smoker, it's easy to simply ask them to move away.

Why do we tolerate excessive regulation? Why can we not control our own
environment?

Are we turning into a nation of wet paper bags?

From:	Heidi's Mail
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:04:18 GMT

"B J Foster" wrote in message
news:41F2E625.1090401@yahoo.com...
>
>
> Heidi's Mail wrote:
>> wrote in message
>> news:1106434304.654188.250580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> insensitive smoker, it's easy to simply ask them to move away.
>
>
hmm.... that easy is it?
and who is going to determine as to who has to leave and which area they
have to leave???
would that be more excessive regulations???
Heidi

From:	B J Foster
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:23:45 +1100

Heidi's Mail wrote:
> "B J Foster" wrote in message
> news:41F2E625.1090401@yahoo.com...
>
>>
>>Heidi's Mail wrote:
>>
>>> wrote in message
>>>news:1106434304.654188.250580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>insensitive smoker, it's easy to simply ask them to move away.
>>
>>
> hmm.... that easy is it?
> and who is going to determine as to who has to leave and which area they
> have to leave???
> would that be more excessive regulations???
> Heidi
>
>

Never mind, the government will do it for you

From:	Rifty
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:17:49 +1100

B J Foster wrote:

> If subjected to smoke from an
> insensitive smoker, it's easy to simply ask them to move away.

and if they are some huge aggro bloke whose demeanour is as threatening
as some of the posters in this group sound?

It may not be so easy to ask them to move away.

Rifty

--
Academic and Computing Help
http://rifty.net

From:	B J Foster
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:35:15 +1100

Rifty wrote:
> B J Foster wrote:
>
>
>>If subjected to smoke from an
>>insensitive smoker, it's easy to simply ask them to move away.
>
>
> and if they are some huge aggro bloke whose demeanour is as threatening
> as some of the posters in this group sound?
>
> It may not be so easy to ask them to move away.
>
> Rifty
>

Yes, this is our problem. We're not smart enough to find the right words
and we're not assertive enough to enforce our rights as individuals...

....wet paper bags

From:	Trevor S
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:07:41 GMT

B J Foster wrote in
news:41F2E625.1090401@yahoo.com:

> Why do we tolerate excessive regulation?

because the majority do not care... welcome to "democracy"

> Why can we not control our own environment?

Yes but the majority want to be babied, the evidence is in the socity
around you.

> Are we turning into a nation of wet paper bags?

Happened a long time ago, albeit the sogginess of the paper bag does seem
to be increasing.

--
Trevor S

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

From:	New Player
Subject:	Re: Smoke bans at the beach
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:05:17 +1100

Funny that people are bitching about not being allowed to destroy their (and
other people's) health while at the same time health services (medicare) are
on the decline, private health insurance charges keep increasing, cuts to
education - rich people can now buy their way into a course while a "poor"
person with better marks misses out, we are involved in an illegal
occupation of a sovereign country spending billions of tax dollars which
could better be spent on education and health. Our legal system is in
tatters (murderers and rapists can walk free).

Get your priorities straight.

--
--
"Whether it's god or the bomb,
It's just the same,
It's only fear under another name."
Max Q.
B J Foster wrote in message <41F2E625.1090401@yahoo.com>...
>
>
>Heidi's Mail wrote:
>> wrote in message
>> news:1106434304.654188.250580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>If cigaretes didn't emit obnoxious and dangerous smoke there wouldn't
>>>be a problem.
>>>
>>>I for one am sick of walking into someone elses smoke fumes while
>>>trying to cross the street and waiting a traffic lights pedestrain
>>>crossing.
>>>
>>>Even having a sunny breakfast at a cafe' al afresco style can turn into
>>>a missery becuase of the concentration of smokers moving outside.
>>>
>>>I don't think smokers appreciate how truely unpleaseant their smoke is.
>>>
>>>
>>>This is not a matter of 'socialism' it is a matter of your right to
>>>smoke versus my right to clean and pleaseant air in the same public
>>>spaces.
>>>
>>>It is indeed a pitty that we have crowded our cities so much (due to
>>>the pro immigration stance of St African Yids like you) that non
>>>smokers and smokers desires conflict so often.
>>>
>>>I am glad that you are a smoker. It means that your life will be
>>>forshortened more than mine.
>>>
>>>Go and smoke at home you filthy prick.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> what a pity that you mucked up a, what would have been good post, with
such
>> personal and unnecessary attacks and bad language.