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 | | From: | Don H | | Subject: | Definitions for the Modern World | | Date: | Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:20:31 GMT |
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 | 1) Justice: All men are equal, but the rich are more equal than others.
2) Free Enterprise: The more enterprises you own, the freer you are.
3) Pre-emption: Do unto others, before they can do it unto you.
4) Great Power Politics: Might-is-Right; if we're the Good Guys, and wield
the Power.
5) Unilateralism: Making UN an offer it can't refuse. (who pays the piper
calls the tune.)
6) Privatisation: Creating shareholders (parasites) where none existed
before.
7) Globalisation: Importing goods we used to manufacture ourselves.
8) Employee: A wage slave; a necessary evil.
9) Fascism: Capitalism without the restraints of Democracy.
10) "Arbeit Macht Frei": Who said the Nazis didn't have a sense of humour?
11) Choice: Going to University is not compulsory (Dollars, Debt, or
Dropout)
12) Elections: A popular ritual; whereby, the more things change, the more
they remain the same.
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| | From: | FRAN | | Subject: | Re: Definitions for the Modern World | | Date: | 23 Jan 2005 13:57:19 -0800 |
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| Don H observed:
1) Justice: All men are equal, but the rich are more equal than others.
Fran answered:
While the assertion that "all men are equal" is probably, at best, a
little over 200 years old, and widespread lip service to that principle
amongst conservatives younger still, the last part is as old as human
history. Only socialism can change that.
2) Free Enterprise: The more enterprises you own, the freer you are.
Fran answered:
See (1) above
3) Pre-emption: Do unto others, before they can do it unto you.
Fran answered:
That's just pragmatic.
4) Great Power Politics: Might-is-Right; if we're the Good Guys, and
wield
the Power.
Fran answered:
Forget the last part, as it's superfluous. Might has always been right.
All of human history has been about struggle. Winners write history.
Working people have to find ways of undermining the power of the enemy
and collaborating effectively.
5) Unilateralism: Making UN an offer it can't refuse. (who pays the
piper
calls the tune.)
Fran answered:
The UN is a den of thieves -- a cover for great power interests. It's
always been this way. See (4) above.
6) Privatisation: Creating shareholders (parasites) where none existed
before.
Fran answered:
Not really, it's essentially a tactical question about how best to
enrich your ruling class friends. Sometimes it's better for the ruling
class to spread the cost of necessary infrastructure across wider
groups of people than themselves. Once something worth flogging off has
been created, the various factions can haggle over who should get the
spoils.
7) Globalisation: Importing goods we used to manufacture ourselves.
Fran answered:
Globalisation could be a good thing, provided their was equity in its
implementation, but see (1) above.
8) Employee: A wage slave; a necessary evil.
Fran answered:
Wage slaves will persist this side of the realisation of material
abundance on a world scale. That requires free collaboration amongst
working people. (ie socialism)
9) Fascism: Capitalism without the restraints of Democracy.
Fran answered:
Actually capitalism in which the capitalist factions are so frightened
of the working people that they've put aside their differences for the
greater good of beating up their class enemy.
10) "Arbeit Macht Frei": Who said the Nazis didn't have a sense of
humour?
Fran answered:
Or were simply expressing their class interest.
11) Choice: Going to University is not compulsory (Dollars, Debt, or
Dropout)
Fran answered:
see (6) above
12) Elections: A popular ritual; whereby, the more things change, the
more
they remain the same.
Fran answered:
Absolutely
Fran
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| | From: | Flange | | Subject: | Re: Definitions for the Modern World | | Date: | Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:28:14 +1000 |
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"Don H" wrote in message
news:zyUId.131192$K7.11456@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> 1) Justice: All men are equal, but the rich are more equal than others.
It's just a shame they can't get legal aid.
> 2) Free Enterprise: The more enterprises you own, the freer you are.
Start investing now.
> 3) Pre-emption: Do unto others, before they can do it unto you.
Agree. Shoot home invaders on site.
> 4) Great Power Politics: Might-is-Right; if we're the Good Guys, and wield
> the Power.
That's the problem with Bad Guys. They ultimately don't weild the Power.
They should try being good.
> 5) Unilateralism: Making UN an offer it can't refuse. (who pays the piper
> calls the tune.)
Aren't too many making offers to the UN these days.
> 6) Privatisation: Creating shareholders (parasites) where none existed
> before.
'Parasites' are better than government as owners.
And fortunately anyone, without exclusion, can become a shareholder.
> 7) Globalisation: Importing goods we used to manufacture ourselves.
We lost manufacturing capacity and know-how when the Australian unions
decimated the manufacturing sector in the '70's and priced Aust labour out
of the market.
> 8) Employee: A wage slave; a necessary evil.
Slaves? Hardly. All skills are portable.
And how else do you buy the house, 2 cars, plasma TV, overseas holiday, etc.
> 9) Fascism: Capitalism without the restraints of Democracy.
And Communism?
> 10) "Arbeit Macht Frei": Who said the Nazis didn't have a sense of humour?
Nein sprecken
> 11) Choice: Going to University is not compulsory (Dollars, Debt, or
> Dropout)
Sounds fair enough.
> 12) Elections: A popular ritual; whereby, the more things change, the more
> they remain the same.
Don't think Latham would agree with that one.
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| | From: | FRAN | | Subject: | Re: Definitions for the Modern World | | Date: | 23 Jan 2005 17:45:08 -0800 |
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| > 12) Elections: A popular ritual; whereby, the more things change, the
more
> they remain the same.
> 9) Fascism: Capitalism without the restraints of Democracy.
Flange said:
And Communism?
Fran observed:
A system in which material abundance has been achieved on a world
scale, as a consequence of the effective mobilisation of technology and
free labour. Not to be confused with "Stalinism", an attempt to build
an industrial society within a single country from the ground up
without substantial capital, industrial workforce or even key
infrastructure, relying principally on express coercion and secondarily
on the threat (or actuality) of starvation.
Flange said:
Don't think Latham would agree with that one.
Fran observed:
.... and look how effective he proved to be! He's already fading from
the consciousness. Ten years from now, some trivia quiz will ask: "name
the ALP leaders defeated by Howard at elections" and when Latham's name
eventually pops out everyone will go "oh yeah ... him." Latham's
insights carried little authority, and cut no ice with most of his
peers.
Fran
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| | From: | DBDriver | | Subject: | Re: Definitions for the Modern World | | Date: | Mon, 24 Jan 2005 04:17:28 GMT |
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"FRAN" wrote in message
news:1106531108.306210.306780@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> 12) Elections: A popular ritual; whereby, the more things change, the
> more
>> they remain the same.
>
>> 9) Fascism: Capitalism without the restraints of Democracy.
>
>
> Flange said:
>
> And Communism?
>
> Fran observed:
>
> A system in which material abundance has been achieved on a world
> scale, as a consequence of the effective mobilisation of technology and
> free labour. Not to be confused with "Stalinism", an attempt to build
> an industrial society within a single country from the ground up
> without substantial capital, industrial workforce or even key
> infrastructure, relying principally on express coercion and secondarily
> on the threat (or actuality) of starvation.
>
>
Communism fails because it ultimately requires compulsion. Eg. Most partners
will not continue year after year working hard whilst the "leader" partner
sits around doing nothing (think of the cause of a lot of marriage
breakdowns). The hard working partner has to be INDIVIDUALLY rewarded for
his/her effort and the other disadvantaged if the relationship is to
survive. This leads to the wrong solution - Socialism; the "leader" joins
"the party" and the other is forced to work on.
Now at the other end you have the throws of rampant captitalism which
basically oppresses the majority to a position where their life is dependant
on a few. In a way the result is identical for the bottom dweller as the
Socialist solution.
The best option for both is democracy where a 1 vote 1 values system is
employed. The majority will moderate the extremes of potential rampant
capitalism and ensure that real effort is rewarded. The system is self
moderating and may swing to the right (as it is now) or to the left of
politics at time as the mood of the people deem.
And I know there is some debate on this usenet previously about this, but
Fascism, as implemented over the last 2 centuries, is NOT really "Captialism
without the restraint of Democracy". It is essentially a socialist model
which pulls from the extremes of both the above models. You end up with
fewer and larger (read omni present) private institutions with heavy
compliance to the government's requests. Those companies / industries that
don't follow the government are "socialised" by force and thus become 100%
controlled.
RJ.
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