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 | | From: | stefan nuernberg | | Subject: | Re: AI will never work in 100 years !!!! | | Date: | Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:20:05 +0100 |
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 | Karl-Hugo Weesberg wrote:
> Todays computers are still as dumb as computer of the 70s, so there is
> no chance in hell to develop a good AI.
Yes, because todays mankind ist still as dumb as mankind of stone age!
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| | From: | AngleWyrm | | Subject: | Re: AI will never work in 100 years !!!! | | Date: | Sat, 04 Dec 2004 06:50:46 GMT |
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| > Karl-Hugo Weesberg wrote:
> > Todays computers are still as dumb as computer of the 70s, so there is
> > no chance in hell to develop a good AI.
It could also be asserted that mankind could never travel around the entire
earth, if indeed there is such a thing as around.
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| | From: | EarlCox | | Subject: | Re: AI will never work in 100 years !!!! | | Date: | Sat, 04 Dec 2004 21:08:31 GMT |
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| Well, it couldn't be asserted because it has happened. You should have said,
"It might also have been asserted...", in any case this is hardly true. When
many thought the earth was flat, people still traveled around the known
world (the word Mediterranean, comes from "middle of the earth (or world)"
and reflects a belief that the cities scattered around that sea where
located at the center of the earth). When it was generally known that the
earth was round, many navigators made the trip. They circumnavigated the
globe or, in plain English, the traveled around the world.
And in what sense do you doubt that there is such a thing as around? I can
walk around the room, around my house, I used to say that I really get
around, and I often find myself walking around and around, and, of course, I
can fly around the world. In the context that you used the word, I fail to
see any deep mystical or semiotic meaning. Now, if you had questioned the
world "entire", well that would be a completely different matter!
--
E a r l C o x
Founder and President
Scianta Intelligence, LLC
Turn Knowledge Into Intelligence
scianta dot com
AUTHOR:
"The Fuzzy Systems Handbook" (1994)
"Fuzzy Logic for Business and Industry" (1995)
"Beyond Humanity: CyberEvolution and Future Minds"
(1996, with Greg Paul, Paleontologist/Artist)
"The Fuzzy Systems Handbook, 2nd Ed." (1998)
"Fuzzy Logic and Genetic Algorithms for Data Mining and Exploration"
(due Early Fall 2004)
"AngleWyrm" wrote in message
news:a7dsd.140339$5K2.15588@attbi_s03...
> > Karl-Hugo Weesberg wrote:
> > > Todays computers are still as dumb as computer of the 70s, so there is
> > > no chance in hell to develop a good AI.
>
> It could also be asserted that mankind could never travel around the
entire
> earth, if indeed there is such a thing as around.
>
>
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| | From: | Miss Elaine Eos | | Subject: | Re: AI will never work in 100 years !!!! | | Date: | Sat, 04 Dec 2004 17:56:24 -0800 |
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| In article ,
"EarlCox" wrote:
> Well, it couldn't be asserted because it has happened.
But it COULD be asserted.
In addition, it could be asserted that it could be asserted, even though
it already was, and it could also be asserted that it could never be
asserted.
I hereby assert that this entire thread never happened!
Eep!
--
Please take off your shoes before arriving at my in-box.
I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, patronise any business which sends
unsolicited commercial e-mail or that advertises in discussion newsgroups.
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| | From: | EarlCox | | Subject: | Re: AI will never work in 100 years !!!! | | Date: | Sun, 05 Dec 2004 18:41:02 GMT |
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Well, you can, naturally, assert that the earth is a cube of slightly rancid
lime Jell-O, that Richard Nixon's son, Toddelbeam, would be appointed an
ambassador to China, that birds fly because they are filled with a
currently unknown isotope of Helium, that the famous mime opera "Gilgamesh
and the Seven Babylonian Tarts" was secretly written by Cole Porter, or that
the atomic weight of titanium is 17 (give or take a couple of electron
volts). So I stand corrected. I meant that you cannot assert something as a
possible fact and have some probability (or possibility) that it will be
true when the complement of that something has already taken place.
That, of course, applies to your current assertion
e.
"Miss Elaine Eos" wrote in message
news:Misc-D5EE10.17562404122004@individual.net...
> In article ,
> "EarlCox" wrote:
>
> > Well, it couldn't be asserted because it has happened.
>
> But it COULD be asserted.
>
> In addition, it could be asserted that it could be asserted, even though
> it already was, and it could also be asserted that it could never be
> asserted.
>
> I hereby assert that this entire thread never happened!
>
> Eep!
>
> --
> Please take off your shoes before arriving at my in-box.
> I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, patronise any business which
sends
> unsolicited commercial e-mail or that advertises in discussion newsgroups.
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| | From: | AngleWyrm | | Subject: | Re: AI will never work in 100 years !!!! | | Date: | Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:36:33 GMT |
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| "EarlCox" wrote in message
news:jHpsd.12689$8S5.1467874@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Well, it couldn't be asserted because it has happened. You should have said,
> "It might also have been asserted...", in any case this is hardly true. When
The second line indicates that the message was understood. Even seeing the
message and it's intent, the respondant has chosen to ignore it, claiming it was
incorrectly phrased for consumption.
Your sentence parsing engine has failed to be robust enough, in that it has both
detected the meaning, and at the same time rejected the sentence.
Proof that human intelligence will never work in a 100 years.
-:|:-
AngleWyrm
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| | From: | EarlCox | | Subject: | Re: AI will never work in 100 years !!!! | | Date: | Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:57:41 GMT |
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| Well, if I look around at our world today, I would say that the human mind
has accomplished a great many things, from building vast cities, developing
a science that can explain the physical world in both its microscopic and
macroscopic forms, to sending manned spacecraft to the moon and unmanned
exploratory spacecraft to other planets throughout the solar system, to
evolving a mathematics that can represent and work with highly non-linear,
dynamic, multi-dimensional spaces, to writing great works of literature, to
visualizing and manipulating single atoms, to creating a world wide
communications network, to designing and mass producing amazing small and
powerful computer-based machines, to ... well the list is impressive. yes,
we still have our reptilian, xenophobic, tribal behaviors that may one day
destroy the environment and plunge us into terrible wars. But we are not
dumb, we are just, in a swarm intelligence way, constrained by our emotional
and biological attachment to a world of "fight or flight" that has mostly
disappeared.
Computers are not only dumb they are just collections of circuits. Without
software they are nothing. It is not that our computers are dumb, it is our
understanding of intelligence and self-evolving intelligent systems that is
flawed. The software that will eventually replicate this process need not be
deterministic or even programmed in the traditional sense. Today some
advanced artificial life and cognitive scientists are beginning to realize
that you cannot program a computer to be intelligent, you have find a way of
evolving intelligence.
Just an observation.
I don't have time to engage in a debate on this.
earl
--
E a r l C o x
Founder and President
Scianta Intelligence, LLC
Turn Knowledge Into Intelligence
www scianta dot com
AUTHOR:
"The Fuzzy Systems Handbook" (1994)
"Fuzzy Logic for Business and Industry" (1995)
"Beyond Humanity: CyberEvolution and Future Minds"
(1996, with Greg Paul, Paleontologist/Artist)
"The Fuzzy Systems Handbook, 2nd Ed." (1998)
"Fuzzy Logic and Genetic Algorithms for Data Mining and Exploration"
(due Early Fall 2004)
"stefan nuernberg" wrote in message
news:co7e26$dm$04$1@news.t-online.com...
> Karl-Hugo Weesberg wrote:
> > Todays computers are still as dumb as computer of the 70s, so there is
> > no chance in hell to develop a good AI.
>
> Yes, because todays mankind ist still as dumb as mankind of stone age!
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| | From: | BlackWater | | Subject: | Re: AI will never work in 100 years !!!! | | Date: | Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:27:20 GMT |
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| On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:57:41 GMT, "EarlCox"
wrote:
>Well, if I look around at our world today, I would say that the human mind
>has accomplished a great many things, from building vast cities, developing
>a science that can explain the physical world in both its microscopic and
>macroscopic forms, to sending manned spacecraft to the moon and unmanned
>exploratory spacecraft to other planets throughout the solar system, to
>evolving a mathematics that can represent and work with highly non-linear,
>dynamic, multi-dimensional spaces, to writing great works of literature, to
>visualizing and manipulating single atoms, to creating a world wide
>communications network, to designing and mass producing amazing small and
>powerful computer-based machines, to ... well the list is impressive. yes,
>we still have our reptilian, xenophobic, tribal behaviors that may one day
>destroy the environment and plunge us into terrible wars. But we are not
>dumb, we are just, in a swarm intelligence way, constrained by our emotional
>and biological attachment to a world of "fight or flight" that has mostly
>disappeared.
Not so long as the neighbors want to strong-arm you, steal
your stuff, beat you senseless or do you in .... our main
opponents in this world have always been EACH OTHER more
than "nature". Keeps us sharp ... and, as a side benifit,
has seeded most of those civilized accomplishments you
brag about.
>Computers are not only dumb they are just collections of circuits.
So far.
>Without
>software they are nothing.
They COULD be made as modifiable firmware ... just
as our brains are.
>It is not that our computers are dumb, it is our
>understanding of intelligence and self-evolving intelligent systems that is
>flawed.
Missing. There's a BIG gap. We're OK on the macroscopic
end of things ... psychology, sociology ... and we're OK
on the microscopic end of things ... neurons, synapses,
neuro-chemistry ... but we have been unable to ascertain
how all the little bits and pieces go together to create
the 'macro' result. Could take decades, maybe centuries,
to understand ourselves with THAT degree of detail.
>The software that will eventually replicate this process need not be
>deterministic or even programmed in the traditional sense. Today some
>advanced artificial life and cognitive scientists are beginning to realize
>that you cannot program a computer to be intelligent, you have find a way of
>evolving intelligence.
Exactly. It's the only practical way - short of literally
simulating someones entire central nervous system down to
the molecular level ... which would probably run kinda
slow.
In any event, EIs will surely have to self-evolve. We
create the proper environment ... akin to a newborn
brain ... provide an appropriate simulated environment
and then let e-'nature' take its course. E-bugs, e-dogs,
e-cats first ... then bigger stuff. The good thing is
we could get hundreds of 'generations' in a day. The
bad thing is that any emergent EI probably won't be
much "like us" - a veritable 'alien' instead with a
vastly different set of priorities, a different way
of thinking, a different emotional makeup.
Can we all just get along ? I doubt it. Nothing in OUR
history suggests such a thing ... we couldn't get along
with the neandertals. Any tiny 'difference' can be a
trigger for xenophobic violence.
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