To Steve and Smilie:

Okay, I could take each point and argue each one, but let's get down to
the real issue.

1) Acts 13:39 "and through Him everyone who believes is justified from
all things, from which you could not be justified through the law of
Moses." There are different types of justification! There are at
least seven that I know of. Each justification will do different
things for your relationship with God. The old testament saints were
justified through faith (Hebrews 11). But they didn't recieve all the
benefits from that justification that we recieve through other
justifications. Hebrews 11:39-40 sums up the chapter and what is said
above.

Justification through the law: ONLY Jesus was justified through the
law. No one else can be or will be (Gallatians 2:16)

Justification through faith got the old testament saints to Abraham's
Bosom in the heart of the earth, that is the good part of hell (Luke
18:19-31; 1 Samuel 28).

Justification through the blood (Romans 5:9) gets us to be "absent from
the body, present with the Lord." I won't say it gets us to heaven,
because you can't prove it with scripture.

Now, all that to say that the gospel preached before Jesus rejection by
the Jews is different from the gospel preached about seven years after
his resurrection. (ooohhh, could that have been Daniel's 70th week if
the jews hadn't rejected him?)

How do I prove the difference? Well, Paul spoke of it, and called it a
mystery. Specifically, one of the 8 mysteries that Paul was made a
minister of. This mystery is in Ephesians 3:1-6.
I'll finish up in a new thread.

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The different gospels, and what they did
Date:	Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:50:16 GMT

Drewsk said: 1) Acts 13:39 "and through Him everyone who believes is
justified from
> all things, from which you could not be justified through the law of
> Moses." There are different types of justification! There are at
> least seven that I know of. Each justification will do different
> things for your relationship with God. The old testament saints were
> justified through faith (Hebrews 11). But they didn't recieve all the
> benefits from that justification that we recieve through other
> justifications. Hebrews 11:39-40 sums up the chapter and what is said
> above.

Steve's response: We are all only justified by faith. Whether we lived
before the Law, during the Law, or today, after Christ's victory over sin.
We are only justified by our belief and faith in God and Jesus Christ, the
Messiah. Those that lived before Christ died in the faith and belief that he
was coming to redeem fallen man to Himself. Us today, after the cross, are
saved only by our belief and faith in God and in Jesus Christ, the Messiah
that came. That is the only way that any of us are justified, by faith,
nothing else.
Hebrews 11:39-What promise is it that they did not receive? God made many
promises, and many of them received the promises that He made to them. But
the promise is His promise that He will raise them up and that there will be
a kingdom established here on this earth ( The Millennial Kingdom). They
have not received that promise yet, because God is still today calling out a
people to His name, and, as it says here in Hebrews, "bringing many sons
home to glory." "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith,
received not the promise." We are told here the reason for that-

Hebrews 11:40- "40. God having provided some better thing for us, that they
without us should not be made perfect."
God has us in mind! Wasn't that gracious of Him? "That they without us
should not be made perfect." God is very patiently calling people out of
this world to His name-and that is the church. And until that church is
completed, He is just going to keep calling them out.

Drews said: "Justification through faith got the old testament saints to
Abraham's
> Bosom in the heart of the earth, that is the good part of hell (Luke
> 18:19-31; 1 Samuel 28).
>
Steve's response: That same faith got them to heaven, when Christ took
captivity captive after His resurrection. All the other people that lived
and died at this time that did not have this faith in God will be at the
Great White Throne Judgment:

Ephesians 4:8 " 8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led
captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."

Drews said: "Justification through the blood (Romans 5:9) gets us to be
"absent from
> the body, present with the Lord." I won't say it gets us to heaven,
> because you can't prove it with scripture"

Steve's response: Did Christ take them from the holding tank of Abrahams
bosom to another holding tank that is not revealed to us in His word? Paul
was quite certain that to be absent from his own body was to be present with
the Lord. Paul was saved, just the same as these Old Testament Saints were-
by Faith alone.

Also, another picture of what happens to the believers that die during the
Tribulation is found in Revelation, when we find out that they are all
there, with God, in Heaven. Rev 7:9-14 " 9. After this I beheld, and, lo, a
great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds,
and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb,
clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10. And cried with a
loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and
unto the Lamb. 11. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and
about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their
faces, and worshipped God,
12. Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and
honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13.
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, WHAT ARE THESE WHICH ARE
ARRAYED IN WHITE ROBES? AND WHENCE CAME THEY? 14. AND I SAID UNTO HIM, SIR,
THOU KNOWEST. AND HE SAID TO ME, THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF THE
TRIBULATION, AND HAVE WASHED THEIR ROBES, AND MADE THEM WHITE IN THE BLOOD
OF THE LAMB.

Paul had been to heaven once, and he was looking forward to returning there.
I have never been to heaven, but I am looking forward to it with all my
heart and soul and mind. Whether I make it before the rapture or after, I
could care less.

God bless,

Steve Goltra

P.S. where have all of your views (doctrine) come from? Are you a member of
a specific Denomination, or is your knowledge just from self study in
specific books? What books, may I ask?

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:tQ0xd.2804$9j5.44@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The different gospels, and what they did
Date:	Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:21:34 GMT

This is my second post on this today 12/26/04

JUSTIN SAID: Justification through the blood (Romans 5:9) gets us to be
"absent from
the body, present with the Lord." I won't say it gets us to heaven,
because you can't prove it with scripture.

STEVE'S RESPONSE: Again, you pull out one verse, when Romans 6-11 is focused
on one subject, specifically that our Atonement is based completely on the
work of one Man, at one time, in one event when Jesus Christ died two
thousand years ago on Calvary. One Man, at one event paid the price totally.
All of us today are justified by what this Man, Christ Jesus, did on that
cross, the same as everyone that has ever lived on this planet, including
Adam. The only thing necessary is that they had to have FAITH in God, in the
Messiah, the seed of the woman, the same as we do today. That is why today,
to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord! Sin has been paid
for, and we can now enter heaven free from sin!

I have also responded to this subject on another post, that I will add here:
"I previously gave you one clear example, from scripture, where the dead are
in heaven. Why did you not reply to that example instead
of repeating what you have said before (above)? This scripture is a clear
example to Paul's words- "To be absent from the body is to be present with
the Lord (IN HEAVEN).

In Revelation, the saints that have been killed during the tribulation are
in heaven, in the Throne Room and their "souls" are 'Under the Altar". It
can be found in Rev. 6:9-11:

"9. And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls
of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which
they held: 10. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord,
holy and
true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the
earth? 11. And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was
said
unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their
fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were,
should be fulfilled."

JUSTIN SAID:

Now, all that to say that the gospel preached before Jesus rejection by
the Jews is different from the gospel preached about seven years after
his resurrection. (ooohhh, could that have been Daniel's 70th week if
the jews hadn't rejected him?)

STEVE SAID: Another grievous error. Before you go on a wild goose chase
about different Gospels being preached, we need the definition of the word
Gospel from the Bible. Before I give the definition of Gospel, please post
your definition.

Thank you & God bless,

Steve Goltra

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:tQ0xd.2804$9j5.44@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> To Steve and Smilie:
>
> Okay, I could take each point and argue each one, but let's get down to
> the real issue.
>

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The different gospels, and what they did
Date:	Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:21:27 GMT

JUSTIN SAID:

Okay, I could take each point and argue each one, but let's get down to
the real issue.
1) Acts 13:39 "and through Him everyone who believes is justified from
all things, from which you could not be justified through the law of
Moses." There are different types of justification! There are at
least seven that I know of. Each justification will do different
things for your relationship with God. The old testament saints were
justified through faith (Hebrews 11). But they didn't receive all the
benefits from that justification that we recieve through other
justifications. Hebrews 11:39-40 sums up the chapter and what is said
above.

STEVE'S RESPONSE: Justin, your stated specifically above: " There are
different types of justification! There are at least seven that I know of.
Each JUSTIFICATION WILL DO DIFFERENT THINGS FOR YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD
(?????). The old testament saints were justified through faith (Hebrews
11). But they didn't recieve all the benefits from that justification that
we recieve through other justifications. Hebrews 11:39-40 sums up the
chapter and what is said above.

STEVE'S CONTINUED RESPONSE: JUSTIN, THIS IS FALSE DOCTRINE! ABSOLUTELY
FALSE. Now I know why the majority of your posts have troubled my soul. You
are entirely wrong about justification, from beginning to end. I'll go into
detail later, but right now I want to address each scripture that you have
quoted (and misinterpreted it's meaning) , and follow it by what the Bible
has to say about each one.

Acts 13:39 "And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from
which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

You/we are justified from all things-the word "all" in Greek means "All".
Once we BELIEVE GOD, ONCE WE HAVE FAITH IN HIM, ALL OF OUR SIN IS FORGIVEN,
EVEN SIN THAT WE ARE DOING IN OUR LIFE PRESENTLY. We all know that our old
sins are forgiven, but we think- Now, I've got to walk the line and make
sure that I don't mess up from here on. That is not Salvation. That is not
JUSTIFICATION. Every sin that we have ever committed, or are presently
committing, or ever will commit in the future is forgiven and forgotten
because where sin abounded, grace did much more abound (Romans 5:20). THE
PRICE HAS BEEN PAID BY JESUS CHRIST.

Hebrews 11:39- The promise referred to is the CENTRAL PROMISE of the Book of
Hebrews, the PROMISE of the NEW TESTAMENT, the PROMISE of SALVATION BY
FAITH.

Hebrews 11:40 "God having provided some better thing for us....

Today, when we look back at the Old Testament we think it would have been so
wonderful to see the miracles- Lions mouths stopped, the parting of the red
sea, or fire falling from heaven. In reality we have experienced something
greater than any of these miracles. The Lord Lives in our hearts!!! He walks
with each and every moment of every day. He gives direction to us whenever
we take the time to stop and listen. Although we take all of these things
for granted, any one of them would have astonished the Old Testament saints!

Hebrews 11:40 (continued) "...that they without us should not be made
perfect"

The heroes of faith who preceded us didn't experience perfection of the
maturity we enjoy in the New Covenant. How do you/we/me/us receive this New
Covenant? By Faith, saying, "Lord, I too am looking for a better
country....any by faith I'll see even greater things than even these heroes
and heroines did because, although they saw awesome events externally, I've
experienced Your (Gods) miraculous grace internally, the promise of Your
(Gods) kingdom ultimately, and the promise of Your (God's) presence
eternally.

JUSTIN SAID: Justification through the law: ONLY Jesus was justified
through the
law. No one else can be or will be (Galatians 2:16)

STEVE'S RESPONSE: Galatians 2:15 & 16 are focused on the believer, not on
Christ. If we look at this real close we see the true meaning of these two
verses as follows: "Peter, why are you advocating the rebirth of religion?
asks Paul. "We Jews couldn't even keep the rules (Law). We know that a man
is justified only by faith in Christ-not by works, but simply by believing.

JUSTIN SAID: Justification through faith got the old testament saints to
Abraham's
Bosom in the heart of the earth, that is the good part of hell (Luke
18:19-31; 1 Samuel 28).

STEVE'S RESPONSE: You have this backwards. Faith gave them, in the Old
Testament, justification, the same as Faith gives us Justification today.
The only reason they were stuck in Abrahams Bosom is that sin had not been
dealt with once and for all on the cross. Once Christ bled & died on the
cross and rose from the dead, sin was a defeated foe and Christ was then
able to take them to heaven," leading captivity captive."

Psalms 68:18:"Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive:
thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the
Lord God might dwell among them.

Ephesians 4:8-10 "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led
captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9. (Now that he ascended, what
is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all
heavens, that he might fill all things.)"

To be continued.

God Bless,

Steve
"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:tQ0xd.2804$9j5.44@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> To Steve and Smilie:
>
> Okay, I could take each point and argue each one, but let's get down to

From:	TheDrewsk
Subject:	Re: The different gospels, and what they did
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:51:49 GMT

Merry (Belated) Christmas!

Well Steve, it seems my argument on justification got you pretty worked
up. But before you go on any further, you definitely got the wrong
idea on a few of my posts. I guess this is sometimes a tough medium to
convey meaningful doctrine.

But, please, stop looking for things you disagree with in my posts, and
look for things that you do agree with. Things would go a lot smoother
for our discussion.

I'm going to respond quickly because I think I owe it to you. Why? I
don't know. But here it is:

About going to heaven when you die, there is no where in the bible that
says when you die you go to heaven. You might infer from those verses
that you quoted that you are in heaven, but no where does it actually
say you are in "heaven". I always found that curious as to where all
these christians got the idea that we go to "heaven" when we die.

Old testament saints, justified by faith. Us, justified by the blood
(If we were justified by faith alone, we would go to abraham's bosom
like old testament saints). Jesus, justified by the law.
Justification by jesus resurrection, gives us a new identity.
Justification by admitting our sinner status, starts all the other
things by getting our heart in the right place. You agreed with at
least half the things I believe, I just say them differently, have a
different point of view.

Okay, you have accused me of false doctrine, misleading others, and
having different names. What we are doing is sharpening each other.
That's not a bad thing! I am glad to have someone to discuss doctrine
with whom SHARES my passion for truth in the Word. It's a rare thing.
So thanks for your putting up with my sometimes boring arguments. I
hope to continue our sharpening....

Justin the Drewsk

From:	TheDrewsk
Subject:	Re: The different gospels, and what they did
Date:	Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:40:02 GMT

Ha! No, I'm not in some crazy denomination, I don't really have a
specific one. I also try to avoid any specific denomination as much as
possible. I have some very close friends who I go through the Word
with regularly. Some teach, others are taught to. So, the Holy Spirit
through self study is how I learn.

Are you reading any of the passages I mention?

Acts 13:39 mentions two justifications and compares them. Also:

Justification by grace: Romans 3:24
Justification by the Blood: Romans 5:9
Justification by faith: Romans 5:1
Justification by works: James 2:24
Justification by your words: Matthew 12:37
Justification by Jesus' resurrection: Romans 4:25
Justification by admitting you're a sinner: Luke 18:9-14

So, you can make a claim that everyone is saved (meaning recieve
salvation I think you mean) by faith. But that's not the only
justification according to scripture.

Did Christ take them from the holding tank of Abrahams
bosom to another holding tank that is not revealed to us in His word?

Haha, misunderstanding. I just don't like to say "Heaven" because you
can't prove it in scripture that you die and go to heaven. You can
prove that when you die you are with God. So I say "with the Lord"
instead of "in heaven". That's it.

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The different gospels, and what they did
Date:	Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:15:41 GMT

Steve Said: Did Christ take them from the holding tank of Abrahams
> bosom to another holding tank that is not revealed to us in His word?

Drewsk response: "Haha, misunderstanding. I just don't like to say "Heaven"
because you
> can't prove it in scripture that you die and go to heaven. You can
> prove that when you die you are with God. So I say "with the Lord"
> instead of "in heaven". That's it."

Steve's response: I previously gave you one clear example, from scripture,
where the dead are in heaven. Why did you not reply to that example instead
of repeating what you have said before (above)? This scripture is a clear
example to Paul's words- "To be absent from the body is to be present with
the Lord (IN HEAVEN).
In Revelation, the saints that have been killed during the tribulation are
in heaven, in the Throne Room and their "souls" are 'Under the Altar". It
can be found in Rev. 6:9-11:

"9. And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls
of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which
they held:
10. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and
true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the
earth?
11. And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said
unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their
fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were,
should be fulfilled."

God bless,

Steve Goltra

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:SpDyd.7516$9j5.2003@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Ha! No, I'm not in some crazy denomination, I don't really have a
> specific one. I also try to avoid any specific denomination as much as
> possible. I have some very close friends who I go through the Word
> with regularly. Some teach, others are taught to. So, the Holy Spirit
> through self study is how I learn.
>
> Are you reading any of the passages I mention?
>
> Acts 13:39 mentions two justifications and compares them. Also:
>
> Justification by grace: Romans 3:24
> Justification by the Blood: Romans 5:9
> Justification by faith: Romans 5:1
> Justification by works: James 2:24
> Justification by your words: Matthew 12:37
> Justification by Jesus' resurrection: Romans 4:25
> Justification by admitting you're a sinner: Luke 18:9-14
>
> So, you can make a claim that everyone is saved (meaning recieve
> salvation I think you mean) by faith. But that's not the only
> justification according to scripture.
>
> Did Christ take them from the holding tank of Abrahams
> bosom to another holding tank that is not revealed to us in His word?
>
> Haha, misunderstanding. I just don't like to say "Heaven" because you
> can't prove it in scripture that you die and go to heaven. You can
> prove that when you die you are with God. So I say "with the Lord"
> instead of "in heaven". That's it.
>
>

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The different gospels, and what they did
Date:	Fri, 24 Dec 2004 04:24:07 GMT

Drews said:"Justification by grace: Romans 3:24
> Justification by the Blood: Romans 5:9
> Justification by faith: Romans 5:1
> Justification by works: James 2:24
> Justification by your words: Matthew 12:37
> Justification by Jesus' resurrection: Romans 4:25
> Justification by admitting you're a sinner: Luke 18:9-14"
Steve said:

1. Justified by CHRISTS grace Romans 3:24- Christ's work

2. Justified by CHRISTS blood Romans 5:9 - Christ's work

3. Works- It is not faith and works that saves a man. It is not faith or
works. It is faith that works! All Abraham was doing on Mount Moriah was
showing the reality of what had taken place in his life years earlier when
he simply BELIEVED GOD.

4. Our Words- your/my words will either CONDEMN US OR JUSTIFY US. "That if
thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine
heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with
the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is
made to salvation"

5. Justified by Jesus resurrection- CHRIST'S work

6. Justification by admitting you are a sinner- This is nothing more than an
explanation of the first step for being saved- see Romans 10:9

Steve's continued response: I feel that we are talking about one
thing -justification, but that you are somehow breaking it down into pieces,
and creating some kind of doctrine out of it, and saying there are different
ways to being saved OR being justified OR what are you trying to say? . I am
having a hard time following what you are trying to say, and thus am at a
loss in replying to your posts. All that I/you/we/they/us have to do is to
believe God, period. He has done all of the work.

Faith is called a "condition," not because it possesses any merit, but only
because it is the instrument, the only instrument by which the soul
appropriates or apprehends Christ and his righteousness (Rom. 1:17; 3:25,
26; 4:20, 22; Phil. 3: 8-11; Gal. 2:16).

The act of faith which thus secures our justification secures also at the
same time our sanctification (q.v.); and thus the doctrine of justification
by faith does not lead to licentiousness (Rom. 6:2-7). Good works, while not
the ground, are the certain consequence of justification (6:14; 7:6). (See
Galatians)

Justification is a forensic term, opposed to condemnation. As regards its
nature, it is the judicial act of God, by which he pardons all the sins of
those who believe in Christ, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as
righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands. In
addition to the pardon (q.v.) of sin, justification declares that all the
claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified. Without faith
(belief) justification would not take place.

It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign. The law is not relaxed or
set aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense; and so
the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and
rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law (Rom. 5:1-10). It proceeds
on the imputing or crediting to the believer by God himself of the perfect
righteousness, active and passive, of his Representative and Surety, Jesus
Christ (Rom. 10:3-9).

Justification is not the forgiveness of a man without righteousness, but a
declaration that he possesses a righteousness which perfectly and forever
satisfies the law, namely, Christ's righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 4:6-8).
The sole condition on which this righteousness is imputed or credited to the
believer is faith in or on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Drews said: "Acts 13:39 mentions two justifications and compares them.

Steve's response: Men can never be justified by the Law. There is no
justification by the law for you or me. The only man ever justified by the
law is Jesus Christ.

Acts 13:39 says: "39. And by him all that believe are justified from all
things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."

This just means that everyone who trusts in Christ is freed from all guilt
and declared righteous (justified)-something the Jewish law could never do
for mankind. The only thing it did for mankind was to convict him of his own
sin!

God bless,

Steve Goltra

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:SpDyd.7516$9j5.2003@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Ha! No, I'm not in some crazy denomination, I don't really have a
> specific one. I also try to avoid any specific denomination as much as
> possible. I have some very close friends who I go through the Word
> with regularly. Some teach, others are taught to. So, the Holy Spirit
> through self study is how I learn.
>
> Are you reading any of the passages I mention?
>
> Acts 13:39 mentions two justifications and compares them. Also:
>
> Justification by grace: Romans 3:24
> Justification by the Blood: Romans 5:9
> Justification by faith: Romans 5:1
> Justification by works: James 2:24
> Justification by your words: Matthew 12:37
> Justification by Jesus' resurrection: Romans 4:25
> Justification by admitting you're a sinner: Luke 18:9-14
>
> So, you can make a claim that everyone is saved (meaning recieve
> salvation I think you mean) by faith. But that's not the only
> justification according to scripture.
>
> Did Christ take them from the holding tank of Abrahams
> bosom to another holding tank that is not revealed to us in His word?
>
> Haha, misunderstanding. I just don't like to say "Heaven" because you
> can't prove it in scripture that you die and go to heaven. You can
> prove that when you die you are with God. So I say "with the Lord"
> instead of "in heaven". That's it.
>
>

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The different gospels, and what they did
Date:	Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:15:58 GMT

Dear Drews AKA Justin:

In my previous responses to this post I missed one of the "Justifications"
below.

It is actually #3 on the list- Romans 5:1 "1. Therefore being justified by
faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:"
My response to #3
By embracing the above simple fact that Jesus died for our sins and rose
again, we have peace with God. We can relax in our relationship with Him,
talk to Him freely, and fellowship with Him continually because we have
peace with Him eternally.

What does all of this mean, Justin? What truth or doctrine or mystery is
revealed here that we didn't know before? What is all this about, Drews (AKA
Justin)?

God bless,

Steve Goltra

"Steve Goltra" wrote in message
news:HRMyd.7940$9j5.1093@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Drews said:"Justification by grace: Romans 3:24
>> Justification by the Blood: Romans 5:9
>> Justification by faith: Romans 5:1
>> Justification by works: James 2:24
>> Justification by your words: Matthew 12:37
>> Justification by Jesus' resurrection: Romans 4:25
>> Justification by admitting you're a sinner: Luke 18:9-14"
> Steve said:
>
> 1. Justified by CHRIST'S grace Romans 3:24- Christ's work
>
> 2. Justified by CHRIST'S blood Romans 5:9 - Christ's work
>
> 3. Works- It is not faith and works that saves a man. It is not faith or
> works. It is faith that works! All Abraham was doing on Mount Moriah was
> showing the reality of what had taken place in his life years earlier when
> he simply BELIEVED GOD.
>
> 4. Our Words- your/my words will either CONDEMN US OR JUSTIFY US. "That if
> thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in
> thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
> For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth
> confession is made to salvation"
>
> 5. Justified by Jesus resurrection- CHRIST'S work
>
> 6. Justification by admitting you are a sinner- This is nothing more than
> an explanation of the first step for being saved- see Romans 10:9
>
>
>
> Steve's continued response: I feel that we are talking about one
> thing -justification, but that you are somehow breaking it down into
> pieces, and creating some kind of doctrine out of it, and saying there are
> different ways to being saved OR being justified OR what are you trying to
> say? . I am having a hard time following what you are trying to say, and
> thus am at a loss in replying to your posts. All that I/you/we/they/us
> have to do is to believe God, period. He has done all of the work.
>
>
>
> Faith is called a "condition," not because it possesses any merit, but
> only because it is the instrument, the only instrument by which the soul
> appropriates or apprehends Christ and his righteousness (Rom. 1:17; 3:25,
> 26; 4:20, 22; Phil. 3: 8-11; Gal. 2:16).
>
>
>
> The act of faith which thus secures our justification secures also at the
> same time our sanctification (q.v.); and thus the doctrine of
> justification by faith does not lead to licentiousness (Rom. 6:2-7). Good
> works, while not the ground, are the certain consequence of justification
> (6:14; 7:6). (See Galatians)
>
>
>
> Justification is a forensic term, opposed to condemnation. As regards its
> nature, it is the judicial act of God, by which he pardons all the sins of
> those who believe in Christ, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as
> righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands. In
> addition to the pardon (q.v.) of sin, justification declares that all the
> claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified. Without faith
> (belief) justification would not take place.
>
>
>
> It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign. The law is not relaxed or
> set aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense; and so
> the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and
> rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law (Rom. 5:1-10). It
> proceeds on the imputing or crediting to the believer by God himself of
> the perfect righteousness, active and passive, of his Representative and
> Surety, Jesus Christ (Rom. 10:3-9).
>
>
>
> Justification is not the forgiveness of a man without righteousness, but a
> declaration that he possesses a righteousness which perfectly and forever
> satisfies the law, namely, Christ's righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21; Rom.
> 4:6-8). The sole condition on which this righteousness is imputed or
> credited to the believer is faith in or on the Lord Jesus Christ.
>
>
>
> Drews said: "Acts 13:39 mentions two justifications and compares them.
>
>
> Steve's response: Men can never be justified by the Law. There is no
> justification by the law for you or me. The only man ever justified by the
> law is Jesus Christ.
>
> Acts 13:39 says: "39. And by him all that believe are justified from all
> things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."
>
> This just means that everyone who trusts in Christ is freed from all guilt
> and declared righteous (justified)-something the Jewish law could never do
> for mankind. The only thing it did for mankind was to convict him of his
> own sin!
>
>
>
>
>
> God bless,
>
>
>
> Steve Goltra

Dear Drews AKA Justin:

In my previous responses to this post I missed one of the "Justifications"
below.

It is actually #3 on the list- Romans 5:1 "1. Therefore being justified by
faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:"
My response to #3
By embracing the above simple fact that Jesus died for our sins and rose
again, we have peace with God. We can relax in our relatinoship with Him,
talk to Him freely, and fellowship with Him continually because we have
peace with Him eternally.

What does all of this mean, Justin? What truth or doctrine or mystery is
revealed here that we didn't know before? What is all this about, Drews (AKA
Justin)?

God bless,

Steve Goltra

"Steve Goltra" wrote in message
news:HRMyd.7940$9j5.1093@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Drews said:"Justification by grace: Romans 3:24
>> Justification by the Blood: Romans 5:9
>> Justification by faith: Romans 5:1
>> Justification by works: James 2:24
>> Justification by your words: Matthew 12:37
>> Justification by Jesus' resurrection: Romans 4:25
>> Justification by admitting you're a sinner: Luke 18:9-14"
> Steve said: