Now, continuing with the real issue....

2) The gospel to the Jews, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand", started
in Exodus 19:6 in the promise that the Jews would be priests to the
world. So, what does that mean? Jesus is saying, I am the king that
your prophets spoke of, and I was sent here to do certain things (Luke
4:17-21). Israel, get ready to be the priests that I said you would
be! The Kingdom of Heaven promised originally in Exodus 19:6, was at
hand.

Why did the Gentiles or Samaritans not get to here this message? It
wasn't for them! They were the ones who were going to be ministered to
by the Jews, the nation of priests to the gentiles and samaritans. It
wouldn't have done any good to go out to the gentiles and say, "hey,
the nation of Israel is about to become ministers to you guys." They
wouldn't have understood, they didn't even know about the promise in
the first place.

Then, the Jews as a whole rejected Jesus (Matthew 11:20-24). That
point in Matthew seems to be where Jesus changes the whole program, and
He began to speak in parables. They had a corporate identity with God,
an identity as a nation. After Jesus resurrection, the gospel became
the one we, as the church, all know and love: Jesus died and was
raised again for the sin of the world(Romans 5:8-11), and we are
married to him to recieve His identity (by the way, this is another
mystery - Ephesians 5:30-32).

Finally, I'll mention that as Steve said, after the rapture and during
the tribulation there will be the old testament law instituted again.
At this time, the Jews will finally fulfill their purpose. The 144,000
"remnant of Israel" will become the priests to the world. God sure is
faithful!

At this point, your first thought will be that I am wrong here or
there. Let's face it, this forum lends itself to argument entirely too
well. I beg you to reread this post AND THE SCRIPTURES before
replying! And don't you dare reply without using scripture for your
conclusions.

From:	Smilie
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Mon, 20 Dec 2004 23:49:36 GMT

So you had an idea as to one of the reasons from the beginning Drewsk! :).
No problem :).

What I will point out is that God is amazingly complex and there is not just
one answer. The reasons for us taking the bread and wine are multiple,
beautiful and are as important as the others.

e.g Bread symbolising his body given wholy in labour for the truth and
therefore our example. Christ has immortality and therefore by eating his
flesh we are (in a spiritual sense) eating the fruit of the Tree of Life. In
eating his body we accept our part in his death, that WE required his death.
Food gives energy, so we are to hold Christ within us as a burning flame to
empower us in our endevours.

I agree with your argument that this is most certainly one of the reasons
not preaching to the gentiles. That the Jews must needs have rejected their
messiah completely to death before the way could be opened to the gentiles.
What I originally was saying (I hope I wasnt too hard to understand), which
I think you have backed up is that The Law of Moses is a different message
to the one preached by the disciples before Christs death and the one
preached after his ressurection. Each message is linked to Christ and sent
by revelation from God at different times depending on the current status of
Christ.... before his coming the Law, during his mortal sojourning the
baptism of repentance (Mark 1:4) and after his resurrection the name of the
Lord Jesus Christ (1 cor 2:1-2). Each message describes how we may serve
God. After his second coming a new message will be taught.... I dont know
the specifics and I dont think any of us will until God reveals it (1pet
1:9-12). This new message will be in our bibles.... we just cant see its
entirety. Remember the Jews couldnt see the things required of the messiah
and they had whole books memorised.... and I arent so arrogant as to think
that my meagre knowledge could match up to theirs. Ive been thinking it will
be like a 3rd testament, Joel in 2:28 mentions something along these lines
(we can talk about these specifics later if you wish but it doesnt answer
the original question of this thread so I'll leave it at the moment).
But I dont think the Gospel has ever changed. I think its always been "The
good news and glad tidings of the kingdom of God". Rom 10:16 gives us the
clue that Isaiah preached the same gospel as Paul. The way to serve God has
changed (In act, not spirit) but the promises have not changed. The gospel
is a promise to Gods servants that they will be gain eternal life at the
coming of Christs kingdom (Gen 17:8... Abraham and his seed is to possess
the land of caanan for ever but specifically Abraham. Gal 3:29 shows who is
Abrahams seed). Gods own name holds this promise.... Yahweh (or the
corrupted Jehovah) "I will be whom I will be" is both male and female
talking of the body of Christ to be joined to him in the future.

There will be other reasons of course, some practical and others for
prophetic or symbolic relevance but I think you have given a strong reason
Drewsk and Im content.

From:	themuzicman at gmail.com
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:04:57 GMT

Exo 19:5 Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My
covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples,
for all the earth is Mine; 6 and you shall be to Me a kingdom of
priests and a holy nation.

The priest in those days was special. He was set apart by God to
worship Him. That was the norm in the ANE (ancient near east.) God
was telling the people of Israel that they were all to be special like
priests TO HIM (notice "to Me" in the middle of 6.) Nothing is said
here about the Nation of Israel being priests over the earth. So,
there's a contextual error. (Taking a verse out of context.)

The reason that the Gentiles and Samaritans didn't get to hear the
message (listen carefully, now), is that Jesus didn't come to
evangelize the world! He came to live a sinless life, and then to DIE
for the sins of the world. In the tradition of the prophets of the OT
(and according to the prophecy of the Vineyard owner and the evil
workers), Jesus came to fulfill the prophecies of the Messiah, give
countless signs that he was the Messiah, and ultimately be rejected by
the same nation that rejected and killed the prophets, and be killed
Himself, giving Himself to be crucified on a cross, to establish the
New Covenant.

Jesus' preaching was that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand, and the
parables were all about the Kingdom. (That's why He was always saying
"The kingdom of Heaven is like....") However, in John, Jesus' message
is always "Believe in me." (John 3:16, John 6:40, 47, et al.) That was
His message to the Jews, and, later, Paul's gospel to the Gentiles (Eph
2:8, et al.)

Then we have the famous command to the apostles, to make disciples as
they go into the world, baptizing and teaching.

Paul, then, gives us a picture of the New Covenant in Romans 9. In
lamenting for the Jews, Paul notes that the Gentiles have received
without working, what the Jews were working for, but failing to attain,
that being righteousness. However, the Jews didn't understand that
righteousness in the New Covenant was by faith, not by the works of the
Old Covenant.

Even the church is prophecied about in the OT, in Hosea 2:23, which
Paul cites in Romans 9, stating that both Jews and Gentiles are called.
Called into what?

Romans 10 then goes into doctrine of salvation, using OT language of
"everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved" (Rom
10:13), and clearly the context speaks for both Jews and Gentiles, and
both coming into the New Covenant that Paul describes in Romans 9.

And if we go forward to Romans 11, we see that the natural branches
(Jews) were broken off, and Gentiles grafted in. Clearly, there is no
mystery program, but this was God's plan and prophecy from the
beginning.

As for "mystery", whenever you see "mystery" used in context with
"insight into" or "make known" or "revealing" or some other revelation
of knowledge, Paul is adopting the language of the Greek pagan mystery
religions, with the purpose of refuting it. By adopting "mystery"
theology, you're (unwittingly, I'd bet) adopting gnostic theology, a
heresy refuted in the 2nd centry.

This is NOT the case in Eph 5, but it is clear from the context that
the mystery is how two become one flesh, not that the church was an
unknown.

Muz

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Wed, 4 Jan 2005 19:00:02 GMT

more of a valid claim to participate in the
decision to abort a fetus than does the father of that fetus.

4. So long as a woman makes a decision after consulting with her doctor,
she is incapable of making an unethical choice.

[I was going to allow the Impossible Things to stand alone and --hatch
out-- however they might in each individual reader's mind once they had
been planted -- to mix a metaphor. However, in the aftermath of Carol
West's resignation, that seems unnecessarily naive, given the wilfulness
with which the hard questions are ignored in our society. So, here,
interposed, is my more elaborate opinion on abortion:

The far larger question, to me, is one of --what God therefore hath
joyned together let not man put asunder-- (Matthew 19:6, Mark 10:9).
(This, so far as I know, being the only genuinely Biblical quotation --
the Synoptic Jesus again, caveat emptor -- in the otherwise wholly and
completely secular Christian wedding ceremony is a major reason that I
have no objection to marriages. I'm reasonably certain that marriage
is a completely pagan, completely female invention no more sacred as an
institution than are feminism or communism. It is, after all, called
Matrimony and not Patrimony, isn't it? I mean, duh.) It seems to me
utterly foolish to ascribe virtually any of our society's haphazard --
literally --catch as catch can-- -- marriage unions to our Creator. In my
view, an omnipotent and omniscient being simply wouldn't have that lousy
a track record.

Pregnancy, it seems to me, is an altogether different matter.

Inexplicable as it is that

From:	Muz
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:41:39 GMT

Well, you're STILL taking Exodus 19:5-6 out context! God us using
priest as a metaphor to describe His relationship with the nation of
Israel. Maybe a history lesson will help:

In the ANE, the priests were the contact points to the gods. If anyone
wanted to hear from a god, they had to go to the priest. People even
hired priests to be their contact with their personal god. Now, when
God says to Israe that you shell be priests "to me", He isn't saying
that they'll be the point of contact by which the rest of the world can
communicate with Him, but, rather, He is telling them that He wants to
have a God-priest type relationship with each ONE of them!

There simply is no context here to assume that Israel is somehow going
to be the priests to the rest of the world, especially in this context.
God isn't referring to the FUNCTION of the priest, but the
RELATIONSHIP that a priest has with his god, as they undestood it in
their culture.

Go read about the ancient near east (ANE), and you'll understand it
better.

Luke 4:17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He
opened the book, and found the place where it was written, 18 "The
Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the
gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives,
And recovery of sight to the blind, To set free those who are
downtrodden, 19 To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord." 20 And
He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant, and sat down;
and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed upon Him. 21 And He
began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your
hearing.

Unfortunately, once again, you failed to understand the meaning of what
Jesus was saying, here. Isaiah 61 is a messianic prophecy, and Jesus
was staking a claim to being the Messiah. He had just walked out of
the desert after having been tested for 40 days and tempted by Satan,
and He was announcing the beginning of His ministry. You're violating
the hermeneutics of prophecy by taking this portion out of context.

"The mystery paragraph - fascinating, but once again no scripture.
Remember, I didn't write it! Paul mentions 8 mysteries in scripture.
And following (or preceding) those mysteries, are some pretty cryptic
messages. No mention of "greek pagan ministery" or refuting that
mystery in the scripture. Just a mention of mysteries. Gnostic?
First off, gnosticism is a lot more than "mystery" theology. Secondly,
I'm not saying anything about gnosticism! How can you make that jump?"

You don't see it because you don't understand genre and don't take the
time to learn about the time and culture that Paul and his audience
lived in. You don't research the history and meaning of important words
like "musthrion", and how Paul's audience would have taken phrases like
"insight into the mystery" or "make known the mystery." In fact, these
are key pagan Greek mystery phrases, and Paul is dealing directly with
the assertion by these religions that they hold some secret knowledge
or path to redemption that can only be found by entering into the
mystery religions. Colossians is the clearest evidence of this, since
we find the supremacy of Christ, both in being, knowledge, wisdom, and
authority, asserted most clearly, especially over other spiritual
forces, and Paul does so by saying that the "mystery" of Christ is all
that they need, and by using their language, he exposes that there are
no mysteries to be found, but that all knowledge and wisdom and
authority are in Christ. The same message is found in Ephesians, who
were also being affected by the mystery religions. Once you understand
the use of the word in its day, and understand the context in which it
was being written, these things become clear. Again, a Liddell-Scott
lexicon will aid you greatly in increasing your understanding of what
Paul was trying to say.

And, if you review your list, you'll find that covers all but 5 of the
references you cite (including Eph 5:31), and the remainder refer to
lawlessness, Israel's blindness, godliness revealed in Christ, the
resurrection of the living, and two becoming one, none of which refers
to salvation or redemption, and none of which are connected as the
other references in Ephesians and Colossians are.

Just an FYI, I have studied this for myself. I've consulted Liddel and
Scott, alond with the New International Diction of the New Testament,
The Dictionary of the New Testament, and a variety of other historical
and lexigraphical sources to study how "musthrion" was used and would
be understood by Paul and his readers in the way that Paul used it.
I've also studied the cultural context of Colossi and Ephesis and found
a very strong presence of gnostic and mystery religions, which many of
the Colossians and Ephesians would both have come out of and been
influenced by. You would do well to put down your dispensational
reader and do some outside research yourself!

When you use "mystery" in the way that you do, you ARE adopting gnostic
language and theology. The fact is that the Church is prophesied in
the Old Testament, the New Covenant is for the whole world, and is the
mode by which all are saved.

Muz

From:	TheDrewsk
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:49:18 GMT

I won't argue with you that when you spiritualize things, you can say
just about any friggin thing you want - and people do. But if you want
to talk about truth in scripture, that means there is an absolute
truth. That also means a correct answer and an incorrect one. I mean,
if I want to hear spiritualizing when people take 45 minutes to say
what could be said in 5, I go to church!

I'm not going to let you get away with this one. One of the reasons?
Nope. I'm either right or wrong. That's not "one of the reasons."
Either the gospel to the jews is or it isn't what I said it was - and
that is completely up for discussion. That's like saying, "Jesus was a
great philosopher." No He wasn't. He was either the Son of God or a
maniac. People who say He was a great philosopher have no idea what He
was teaching. In the same way, apparently you have no idea what I was
getting at.

"Each message is linked to Christ and sent by revelation from God at
different times depending on the current status of
Christ...."

I would argue that Christ's actions do not remove us from eternal
damnation, but condemnation. To repeat, CHRIST'S ACTIONS REMOVE
CONDEMNATION, NOT DAMNATION. How far can you get without Christ?
Well, let's look at scripture. Luke 18 (Parable of the tax collector
and the pharisee) last verse says "this man went to his house justified
rather than the other" Now, when did the tax collector hear the gospel
in the parable? He didn't. God's message is, humble yourself before
me, know that you are a sinner, and I will have mercy on you. The
gospel hasn't entered the conversation yet, and the tax collector is
already justified. Does this mean that the tax collector can now go to
heaven? No! He still has condemnation (the image of Adam) on him.
So, the old testament believers got to the good part of hell, abraham's
bosom. But they had to stay there until Christ died and rose, to
remove condemnation and recieve a new identity.

You know what, forget about that other stuff. Don't sell yourself so
short! Why couldn't the jews understand things you understand? They
didn't have the mind of christ, or the holy spirit. You can understand
all mysteries with the identity and the mind God gave you. What do we
have to do? Live the way God tells us to. If you aren't living
correctly on a day to day basis, why should God reveal truth to us? It
would serve no purpose. But if you are living correctly, God will
reveal more of HIMSELF daily, also meaning that we understand more of
OURSELVES, meaning that we act on it.

I do not mean this personally in any way! But I cannot stand to see
Truth watered down to something less than it is. And besides, you can
be direct with me. If you think I'm wrong, just tell me. You don't
have to dance around with politeness. 'As iron sharpens iron, so one
man sharpens another.'

And, if you met a muslim in the street, and he told you how you think
he is damned, how would you react? That is what you believe. What
would you say to someone who is angry because what you believe isn't
what he believes, and he is damned for it?

Justin

From:	Smilie
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:50:45 GMT

"I would argue that Christ's actions do not remove us from eternal
damnation, but condemnation."
Thats the whole point of his death.
We were born into a race that has been condemned to death by the
transgression of Adam (rom 5:19, 6:23). The only way this judgement could be
removed from OUR heads was for someone to take our place willingly who had
not incured the same judgement him/herself (Heb 9:22). But that does not
mean he had to STAY dead, so he was ressurected.

I wasnt arguing...... theres no point because I agree.
You have given the prime reason - that the Jews had to reject the messiah
before any preaching could be done to the gentiles.
I know that there is more to it than only that - there always is. This is so
that the most intelligent amoung us are as enthusiastic about the truth as
the simplist - so dont try to look for a black/white answer to things.

I know a Brother who has split his whole bible up into 7 collumns.
He saw a pattern based on the Yahweh name that runs the whole length of the
bible. This has given him alot of insight and help, but patterns and
numerology are only a part of the whole message. They are very important
because they are the undeniable stamp of our creator and very insightful
because it helps with the interpretation of prophesy. Unfortunately this has
become an obsession to this Brother and now it is impossible to talk to him
without it coming up.

Thanx for speaking so frankly.
I DID need that. The encroachment of humanism into our lives is endless and
yes I think i was watering. Its really self-defeatest and that sux. I still
have alot of growing to do... im 22 and was baptised last year :).
That was a really nice way of saying that too. You said it straight but not
spitefully or anything. Too many people only give that sort of response in
judgement and not love.

--
Love makes God make the world go round!
:)
Luv Matthew (Smilie) Lyon

From:	TheDrewsk
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:35:04 GMT

Thanks for the reply! It is a very intelligent, thought out post.

About the nation of priests, come on. What is a priest for? What is
the function of a priest? The very definition of the word is "a
spiritual leader." You do not have priests without someone to lead.
Where they priests for God? Hardly. He doesn't exactly need a priest.
Right after God says they will be priests to Him, He says that all the
earth is His. Everyone and everything has a function towards God,
since the whole earth is His. But you don't have priests without
leadership. And you don't have leadership without someone to lead.
Look up priest in a dictionary.

Try to use a bit more scripture for your conclusions. There are a few
reasons for Jesus coming. The most straightforward, succinct summary
of his coming is in Luke 4:17-21 quoting Isiah 61. If you want to get
into that further, that's your call. That's a whole new subject.

I'm not even sure what the next 3 paragraphs are in response to, good
point though.

The mystery paragraph - fascinating, but once again no scripture.
Remember, I didn't write it! Paul mentions 8 mysteries in scripture.
And following (or preceding) those mysteries, are some pretty cryptic
messages. No mention of "greek pagan ministery" or refuting that
mystery in the scripture. Just a mention of mysteries. Gnostic?
First off, gnosticism is a lot more than "mystery" theology. Secondly,
I'm not saying anything about gnosticism! How can you make that jump?

I mention the mysteries because they are a deeper insight into God's
program. Not the super secret program I alone know, but just what He's
done throughout history and what He's shown to us in it.

Mysteries I speak of:
Ephesians 1:9-10
Ephesians 5:31 - marriage relationship b/w Christ and the Church
1 Timothy 3:16 - the story of Jesus and His body
Colossians 1:27 - removing status of condemnation through Christ
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 - catching up of church
Ephesians 3:4
Romans 11:25 - Israel's blindness
2 Thessalonians 2 - mystery of lawlessness

Thanks again for the response,
Justin the Drewsk

Don't take my word, don't take your preacher's
Learn it for yourself, read and decide.

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:46:09 GMT

What post are you referring to? If you are going to reply to anyones post,
kindly do so on the same thread that you are responding to.

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:saeAd.535$Cc.182@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Thanks for the reply! It is a very intelligent, thought out post.
>
> About the nation of priests, come on. What is a priest for? What is
> the function of a priest? The very definition of the word is "a
> spiritual leader." You do not have priests without someone to lead.
> Where they priests for God? Hardly. He doesn't exactly need a priest.
> Right after God says they will be priests to Him, He says that all the
> earth is His. Everyone and everything has a function towards God,
> since the whole earth is His. But you don't have priests without
> leadership. And you don't have leadership without someone to lead.
> Look up priest in a dictionary.
>
> Try to use a bit more scripture for your conclusions. There are a few
> reasons for Jesus coming. The most straightforward, succinct summary
> of his coming is in Luke 4:17-21 quoting Isiah 61. If you want to get
> into that further, that's your call. That's a whole new subject.
>
> I'm not even sure what the next 3 paragraphs are in response to, good
> point though.
>
> The mystery paragraph - fascinating, but once again no scripture.
> Remember, I didn't write it! Paul mentions 8 mysteries in scripture.
> And following (or preceding) those mysteries, are some pretty cryptic
> messages. No mention of "greek pagan ministery" or refuting that
> mystery in the scripture. Just a mention of mysteries. Gnostic?
> First off, gnosticism is a lot more than "mystery" theology. Secondly,
> I'm not saying anything about gnosticism! How can you make that jump?
>
>
> I mention the mysteries because they are a deeper insight into God's
> program. Not the super secret program I alone know, but just what He's
> done throughout history and what He's shown to us in it.
>
> Mysteries I speak of:
> Ephesians 1:9-10
> Ephesians 5:31 - marriage relationship b/w Christ and the Church
> 1 Timothy 3:16 - the story of Jesus and His body
> Colossians 1:27 - removing status of condemnation through Christ
> 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 - catching up of church
> Ephesians 3:4
> Romans 11:25 - Israel's blindness
> 2 Thessalonians 2 - mystery of lawlessness
>
> Thanks again for the response,
> Justin the Drewsk
>
> Don't take my word, don't take your preacher's
> Learn it for yourself, read and decide.
>
>

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:50:19 GMT

Drewsk said: "The mystery paragraph - fascinating, but once again no
scripture.
> Remember, I didn't write it! Paul mentions 8 mysteries in scripture.
> And following (or preceding) those mysteries, are some pretty cryptic
> messages. No mention of "greek pagan ministery" or refuting that
> mystery in the scripture. Just a mention of mysteries. Gnostic?
> First off, gnosticism is a lot more than "mystery" theology. Secondly,
> I'm not saying anything about gnosticism! How can you make that jump?
>
Steve's initial response: I could care less about "greek pagan ministery" or
Gnosticism, or any other false "mystery" theology. I am only interested in
the mysteries of the Old Testament that have been revealed to us in the New
Testament, already. Not by people who consider themselves to be members of
the spiritual elite. I have no interest in any new gospel, as Paul warns us
of.

Steve's continued response: The Old Testament is the New Testament Concealed
and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. I'm sure that you have
heard that statement before. One specific example of the mystery of the need
for Christ's crucifixion, death and resurrection is found in Luke, and
delivered by Christ Himself:

Luke 24: 13-31 provides proof that Christ himself revealed the mystery,
found in the Old Testament as prophesized by the Prophets as proof that the
Messiah had to suffer these things (crucifixion & death & resurrection). By
beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the
scriptures the things concerning himself.

"13. And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called
Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.

14. And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

15. And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned,
Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

16. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

17. And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye
have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18. And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him,
Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which
are come to pass there in these days?

19. And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning
Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God
and all the people:

20. And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned
to death, and have crucified him.

21. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel:
and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which
were early at the sepulchre;

23. And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had
also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24. And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and
found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

25. Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that
the prophets have spoken:

26. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his
glory?

27. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in
all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

28. And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as
though he would have gone further.

29. But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward
evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.

30. And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and
blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.

31. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of
their sight."

I've quoted this Scripture previously, but it is one of the many posts that
you have not responded to.

God bless,

Steve Goltra

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:saeAd.535$Cc.182@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Thanks for the reply! It is a very intelligent, thought out post.
>
> About the nation of priests, come on. What is a priest for? What is
> the function of a priest? The very definition of the word is "a
> spiritual leader." You do not have priests without someone to lead.
> Where they priests for God? Hardly. He doesn't exactly need a priest.
> Right after God says they will be priests to Him, He says that all the
> earth is His. Everyone and everything has a function towards God,
> since the whole earth is His. But you don't have priests without
> leadership. And you don't have leadership without someone to lead.
> Look up priest in a dictionary.
>
> Try to use a bit more scripture for your conclusions. There are a few
> reasons for Jesus coming. The most straightforward, succinct summary
> of his coming is in Luke 4:17-21 quoting Isiah 61. If you want to get
> into that further, that's your call. That's a whole new subject.
>
> I'm not even sure what the next 3 paragraphs are in response to, good
> point though.
>
> The mystery paragraph - fascinating, but once again no scripture.
> Remember, I didn't write it! Paul mentions 8 mysteries in scripture.
> And following (or preceding) those mysteries, are some pretty cryptic
> messages. No mention of "greek pagan ministery" or refuting that
> mystery in the scripture. Just a mention of mysteries. Gnostic?
> First off, gnosticism is a lot more than "mystery" theology. Secondly,
> I'm not saying anything about gnosticism! How can you make that jump?
>
>
> I mention the mysteries because they are a deeper insight into God's
> program. Not the super secret program I alone know, but just what He's
> done throughout history and what He's shown to us in it.
>
> Mysteries I speak of:
> Ephesians 1:9-10
> Ephesians 5:31 - marriage relationship b/w Christ and the Church
> 1 Timothy 3:16 - the story of Jesus and His body
> Colossians 1:27 - removing status of condemnation through Christ
> 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 - catching up of church
> Ephesians 3:4
> Romans 11:25 - Israel's blindness
> 2 Thessalonians 2 - mystery of lawlessness
>
> Thanks again for the response,
> Justin the Drewsk
>
> Don't take my word, don't take your preacher's
> Learn it for yourself, read and decide.
>
>

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:42:10 GMT

What is a Priest?

The whole priestly system of the Jews was typical. It was a shadow of which
the body is Christ. The priests all prefigured the great Priest who offered
"one sacrifice for sins" "once for all" (Heb. 10: 10, 12). There is now no
human priesthood. (See Epistle to the Hebrews throughout.) The term "priest"
is indeed applied to believers (1 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 1:6), but in these cases it
implies no sacerdotal functions. All true believers are now "kings and
priests unto God." As priests they have free access into the holiest of all,
and offer up the sacrifices of praise and thanksgiving, and the sacrifices
of grateful service from day to day.

The Heb. kohen, Gr. hierus, Lat. sacerdos, always denote one who offers
sacrifices. At first every man was his own priest, and presented his own
sacrifices before God. Afterwards that office devolved on the head of the
family, as in the cases of Noah (Gen. 8:20), Abraham (12:7; 13:4), Isaac
(26:25), Jacob (31:54), and Job (Job 1:5). The name first occurs as applied
to Melchizedek (Gen. 14:18). Under the Levitical arrangements the office of
the priesthood was limited to the tribe of Levi, and to only one family of
that tribe, the family of Aaron.

Certain laws respecting the qualifications of priests are given in Lev.
21:16-23. There are ordinances also regarding the priests' dress (Ex.
28:40-43) and the manner of their consecration to the office (29:1-37).

Their duties were manifold (Ex. 27:20, 21; 29:38-44; Lev. 6:12; 10:11; 24:8;
Num. 10:1-10; Deut. 17:8-13; 33:10; Mal. 2:7). They represented the people
before God, and offered the various sacrifices prescribed in the law.

In the time of David the priests were divided into twenty-four courses or
classes (1 Chr. 24:7-18). This number was retained after the Captivity (Ezra
2:36-39; Neh. 7:39-42). "The priests were not distributed over the country,
but lived together in certain cities [forty-eight in number, of which six
were cities of refuge, q.v.], which had been assigned to their use. From
thence they went up by turns to minister in the temple at Jerusalem.

Thus the religious instruction of the people in the country generally was
left to the heads of families, until the establishment of synagogues, an
event which did not take place till the return from the Captivity, and which
was the main source of the freedom from idolatry that became as marked a
feature of the Jewish people thenceforward as its practice had been hitherto
their great national sin."

The whole priestly system of the Jews was typical. It was a shadow of which
the body is Christ. The priests all prefigured the great Priest who offered
"one sacrifice for sins" "once for all" (Heb. 10: 10, 12). There is now no
human priesthood. (See Epistle to the Hebrews throughout.) The term "priest"
is indeed applied to believers (1 Pet. 2:9; Rev. 1:6), but in these cases it
implies no sacerdotal functions. All true believers are now "kings and
priests unto God." As priests they have free access into the holiest of all,
and offer up the sacrifices of praise and thanksgiving, and the sacrifices
of grateful service from day to day.

God bless,

Steve Goltra

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:saeAd.535$Cc.182@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Thanks for the reply! It is a very intelligent, thought out post.
>
> About the nation of priests, come on. What is a priest for? What is
> the function of a priest? The very definition of the word is "a
> spiritual leader." You do not have priests without someone to lead.
> Where they priests for God? Hardly. He doesn't exactly need a priest.
> Right after God says they will be priests to Him, He says that all the
> earth is His. Everyone and everything has a function towards God,
> since the whole earth is His. But you don't have priests without
> leadership. And you don't have leadership without someone to lead.
> Look up priest in a dictionary.
>
> Try to use a bit more scripture for your conclusions. There are a few
> reasons for Jesus coming. The most straightforward, succinct summary
> of his coming is in Luke 4:17-21 quoting Isiah 61. If you want to get
> into that further, that's your call. That's a whole new subject.
>
> I'm not even sure what the next 3 paragraphs are in response to, good
> point though.
>
> The mystery paragraph - fascinating, but once again no scripture.
> Remember, I didn't write it! Paul mentions 8 mysteries in scripture.
> And following (or preceding) those mysteries, are some pretty cryptic
> messages. No mention of "greek pagan ministery" or refuting that
> mystery in the scripture. Just a mention of mysteries. Gnostic?
> First off, gnosticism is a lot more than "mystery" theology. Secondly,
> I'm not saying anything about gnosticism! How can you make that jump?
>
>
> I mention the mysteries because they are a deeper insight into God's
> program. Not the super secret program I alone know, but just what He's
> done throughout history and what He's shown to us in it.
>
> Mysteries I speak of:
> Ephesians 1:9-10
> Ephesians 5:31 - marriage relationship b/w Christ and the Church
> 1 Timothy 3:16 - the story of Jesus and His body
> Colossians 1:27 - removing status of condemnation through Christ
> 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 - catching up of church
> Ephesians 3:4
> Romans 11:25 - Israel's blindness
> 2 Thessalonians 2 - mystery of lawlessness
>
> Thanks again for the response,
> Justin the Drewsk
>
> Don't take my word, don't take your preacher's
> Learn it for yourself, read and decide.
>
>

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:45:45 GMT

Drewsk said: ."...NOT THE SUPER SECRET PROGRAM I ALONE KNOW......" but just
what He's
done throughout history and what He's shown to us in it."

Steve's response: This is what upsets my soul about your posts. The Gospel
of Christ crucified is not enough. There has to be more, you think. This is
"another gospel" referred to by Paul that you are trying to hook others
into. Are you a member of the Spiritual Elite, the Overcomers, the Special
Saints that have special revelation knowledge not taught in God's word? Are
you another Paul the Apostle, with a Damascus Road Experience? Share your
experience with us on christnet.

God bless,

Steve Goltra

P.S. For you to say that "Jesus was justified by the Law" is ridiculous.
Jesus was God, and has always been
justified, forever. Jesus was the only man who ever kept the law, but he was
not justified by it. Jesus was God, the Word, that became Man. Jesus wrote
the Law that shows us mud balls that we cannot EVER be like Him on our own,
we cannot be like God. The law was given to us to convict us of our sin. He
had no sin, ever, until he took all of our sin on himself. Then, He
satisfied His own Law by becoming sin for us.

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:saeAd.535$Cc.182@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Thanks for the reply! It is a very intelligent, thought out post.
>
> About the nation of priests, come on. What is a priest for? What is
> the function of a priest? The very definition of the word is "a
> spiritual leader." You do not have priests without someone to lead.
> Where they priests for God? Hardly. He doesn't exactly need a priest.
> Right after God says they will be priests to Him, He says that all the
> earth is His. Everyone and everything has a function towards God,
> since the whole earth is His. But you don't have priests without
> leadership. And you don't have leadership without someone to lead.
> Look up priest in a dictionary.
>
> Try to use a bit more scripture for your conclusions. There are a few
> reasons for Jesus coming. The most straightforward, succinct summary
> of his coming is in Luke 4:17-21 quoting Isiah 61. If you want to get
> into that further, that's your call. That's a whole new subject.
>
> I'm not even sure what the next 3 paragraphs are in response to, good
> point though.
>
> The mystery paragraph - fascinating, but once again no scripture.
> Remember, I didn't write it! Paul mentions 8 mysteries in scripture.
> And following (or preceding) those mysteries, are some pretty cryptic
> messages. No mention of "greek pagan ministery" or refuting that
> mystery in the scripture. Just a mention of mysteries. Gnostic?
> First off, gnosticism is a lot more than "mystery" theology. Secondly,
> I'm not saying anything about gnosticism! How can you make that jump?
>
>
> I mention the mysteries because they are a deeper insight into God's
> program. Not the super secret program I alone know, but just what He's
> done throughout history and what He's shown to us in it.
>
> Mysteries I speak of:
> Ephesians 1:9-10
> Ephesians 5:31 - marriage relationship b/w Christ and the Church
> 1 Timothy 3:16 - the story of Jesus and His body
> Colossians 1:27 - removing status of condemnation through Christ
> 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 - catching up of church
> Ephesians 3:4
> Romans 11:25 - Israel's blindness
> 2 Thessalonians 2 - mystery of lawlessness
>
> Thanks again for the response,
> Justin the Drewsk
>
> Don't take my word, don't take your preacher's
> Learn it for yourself, read and decide.
>
>

From:	TheDrewsk
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:40:51 GMT

Smilie's back! How's it going smilie?

Sorry, I didn't know you agreed! It's such a rare thing that I come
across...

Man, you just help make my day. But, I also have a LOT of growing to
do. I'm 23 and only started studying, that is, taking my faith
seriously in the last 2 years. Quite honestly, I could study the
bible, talk to others about it, discuss it, all day long. And my life
has come SO FAR from where it used to be. And I still have so far to
go.

And about the not spiteful reply - hey, that's all you. It's all in
the way you take it. Many people do think I'm spiteful and say less
than flatering things because I'm so direct. Since you take it the way
you do - doesn't that mean your heart is in the right place? At least,
that's how I see it. Maybe I'm wrong.
Yay for bible discussion!

Justin the Drewsk

From:	TheDrewsk
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:49:56 GMT

Steve,

That's it, you won't hear another word from me. I've been veeeerrry
patient with your constant jabs. But you obviously don't care about
what you do, so why should I waste time with you? It's more important
to treat people with respect in your message than say "God Bless" at
the end of it.

Justin the Drewsk

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:31:56 GMT

Drewsk, or Justin, or whoever you really are- I have been more than patient
with your posts. I have answered each one, and quoted God's word that has
refuted everything you have to say. You have not only not answered my posts
(over 15 of them), that were in direct response to yours, you have continued
to ramble on about this "new gospel" that Paul has warned all believers to
stay away from. (You have even posted the same trivia, all over today, the
same day you are no longer posting on this thread.) He (Paul) has even
labeled people with doctrine like yours wolves in sheep's clothing. Romans
16:17-18 gives us more insight: " Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them
which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine (Christ
crucified) which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18. For they that are
such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words
and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." Ephesians 4:14 is
another: " That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and
carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and
cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;". Also 1 Timothy
4:1-2 gives a further description: " Now the Spirit speaketh expressly,
that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to
seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2. Speaking lies in hypocrisy;
having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"

Several days ago you indicated that you have new "revelation knowledge" that
no one else on the planet is privileged to have. You stated: ."...NOT THE
SUPER SECRET PROGRAM I ALONE KNOW......". This is nothing more than a ploy,
a hook, to lead anyone that contacts you away from Jesus Christ and into
your own cult! What is it called? The Drewsk way? The Justin way? I have
asked for you to share your "Damascus Road experience" with us on Christnet
but it looks like that is only given out to the poor souls that contact you
personally, via email. That is what this has all been about for you. It is
only a forum to hook others into your cult.

God bless,

Steve Goltra

P.S. I truly do pray that God blesses you, that He softens your heart, opens
your eyes, and draws you to Himself, and that He sends His workers to
minister to you this day and that He saves your soul.

This is not a game, this is the real deal.

Steve

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:ouzAd.1424$Cc.426@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Steve,
>
> That's it, you won't hear another word from me. I've been veeeerrry
> patient with your constant jabs. But you obviously don't care about
> what you do, so why should I waste time with you? It's more important
> to treat people with respect in your message than say "God Bless" at
> the end of it.
>
> Justin the Drewsk
>
>

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: Why Jesus never preached to the Gentiles
Date:	Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:00:13 GMT

Drew said: " Finally, I'll mention that as Steve said, after the rapture and
during
> the tribulation there will be the old testament law instituted again.
> At this time, the Jews will finally fulfill their purpose. The 144,000
> "remnant of Israel" will become the priests to the world. God sure is
> faithful!"

Steve said: I never said that! Get your facts straight.

Thanks,

Steve Goltra

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:HQ0xd.2806$9j5.619@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Now, continuing with the real issue....
>
> 2) The gospel to the Jews, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand", started
> in Exodus 19:6 in the promise that the Jews would be priests to the
> world. So, what does that mean? Jesus is saying, I am the king that
> your prophets spoke of, and I was sent here to do certain things (Luke
> 4:17-21). Israel, get ready to be the priests that I said you would
> be! The Kingdom of Heaven promised originally in Exodus 19:6, was at
> hand.
>
> Why did the Gentiles or Samaritans not get to here this message? It
> wasn't for them! They were the ones who were going to be ministered to
> by the Jews, the nation of priests to the gentiles and samaritans. It
> wouldn't have done any good to go out to the gentiles and say, "hey,
> the nation of Israel is about to become ministers to you guys." They
> wouldn't have understood, they didn't even know about the promise in
> the first place.
>
> Then, the Jews as a whole rejected Jesus (Matthew 11:20-24). That
> point in Matthew seems to be where Jesus changes the whole program, and
> He began to speak in parables. They had a corporate identity with God,
> an identity as a nation. After Jesus resurrection, the gospel became
> the one we, as the church, all know and love: Jesus died and was
> raised again for the sin of the world(Romans 5:8-11), and we are
> married to him to recieve His identity (by the way, this is another
> mystery - Ephesians 5:30-32).
>
> Finally, I'll mention that as Steve said, after the rapture and during
> the tribulation there will be the old testament law instituted again.
> At this time, the Jews will finally fulfill their purpose. The 144,000
> "remnant of Israel" will become the priests to the world. God sure is
> faithful!
>
> At this point, your first thought will be that I am wrong here or
> there. Let's face it, this forum lends itself to argument entirely too
> well. I beg you to reread this post AND THE SCRIPTURES before
> replying! And don't you dare reply without using scripture for your
> conclusions.
>
>