This is addressed to Drew (AKA Frank, AKA Lbrty4us):

The Gospel has never changed, since before the world began. 2 Timothy 1:9
states: " 9. Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not
according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which
was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began". The Gospel has always
been about Gods promise to send the Messiah to save fallen man, to redeem
fallen man to Himself. The Gospel has never been a "political" Gospel of any
kind- that notion is linked to mans misunderstanding of the true condition
of his own soul after the fall of Adam and Eve, that resulted in not only
the sin nature of man, but also sickness and death of man and everything
that draws breath.

As far as God's word is concerned, the Gospel appears in Genesis 3:14-24
when we read: " 14. And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou
hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of
the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the
days of thy life:

15. AND I WILL PUT ENMITY BETWEEN THEE AND THE WOMAN, AND BETWEEN THY SEED
AND HER SEED; IT SHALL BRUISE THY HEAD, AND THOU SHALT BRUISE HIS HEEL.

21. UNTO ADAM ALSO AND TO HIS WIFE DID THE LORD GOD MAKE COATS OF SKINS,
AND CLOTHED THEM.

22. And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know
good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the
tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23. Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till
the ground from whence he was taken.

24. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of
Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way
of the tree of life."

15. AND I WILL PUT ENMITY BETWEEN THEE AND THE WOMAN, AND BETWEEN THY SEED
AND HER SEED; IT SHALL BRUISE THY HEAD, AND THOU SHALT BRUISE HIS HEEL.

THEM.

21. UNTO ADAM ALSO AND TO HIS WIFE DID THE LORD GOD MAKE COATS OF SKINS,
AND CLOTHED

Here, we see the Gospel, at the beginning of the Bible, in Genesis 3:15, at
the beginning of time, in the Garden of Eden, right after Adam & Eve sinned
and brought death and sin to all of mankind. The seed of the woman (women do
not have seed, but men do- This teaches of the Virgin Birth) will be in
enmity against the seed of Satan, and Christ (the seed of the woman) will
bruise the head of Satan, and Satan will bruise Christ's heel. This is a
picture of the crucifixion, the only form of capital punishment that bruises
the heel of the one dying on the cross. The one on the cross is dying from
suffocation, and continually pushes against the cross with his heel, in
order to continue breathing, thus terribly bruising the heel. When Christ
said it was "Finished", Satan's head was broken (Strongs concordance-
#7779-break, bruise or cover).

In Genesis 3:21 we see Gods requirement for a blood sacrifice to "cover" sin
until the Messiah (the seed of the woman) would come. We know this because
when Cain and Abel came to make an offering unto the Lord. Cain brought the
"fruit of the ground" while Abel brought a blood sacrifice. Abel's gift was
acceptable to the Lord, while Cains was not. As it says in Hebrews
9:22"........... and without shedding of blood is no remission." How did
Abel know what to bring? He believed God, and believed what his parents had
told them to do, thus he brought a blood sacrifice, a "firstling of his
flock and the fat thereof" (Gen 4:4) [does this sound like the requirements
of the law in Exodus and Leviticus to you?]. On the other hand Cain was a
rebel, and did it his way. He definitely had animals for food and shelter,
but he withheld God's requirement of a blood sacrifice. God had no respect
for his sacrifice of fruits and vegetables. What does Cain do but get mad.
Cain was a sinner, while Abel was saved. Abel believed God and Cain did not.

If we go to one of the oldest books in the Old Testament, the Book of Job,
we find that Job offered sacrifices & burnt offerings unto the lord to
sanctify his sons and daughters.

"5. And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that
Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered
burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be
that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job
continually."

The Old Testament, from one end to the other, reveals more and more of who
this Messiah will be. This Messiah that will SAVE fallen man from the sin
that Adam placed the whole human race into- "therefore the LORD himself will
give you a sign. Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall
call his name Immanuel (Isaiah 7:14), which is being interpreted God with us
(Matthew 1:23)". Isaiah 9:6-7 reveals more of this Messiah and the lineage
He will come from: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and
the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of
Peace.

7. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon
the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it
with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of
the Lord of hosts will perform this." AND Micah 5:2 "2. But thou, Bethlehem
Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of
thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings
forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

God bless,

Steve Goltra

From:	Muz
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Fri, 31 Dec 2004 06:47:34 GMT

*cough* Mid-acts dispensationalism *cough*

The modern day gnostic.

Muz

From:	TheDrewsk
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:52:02 GMT

Okay, you just gave me a lot of prophecy of Jesus death and
resurrection. No argument that He was foretold beginning in Genesis.
The issue is the gospel being preached to the jews at the time of
Jesus.

There were two ministries, but they are part of the same plan. There
was a promise to the Jews. That promise is for them to be "a kingdom
of priests and a holy nation.(Exodus 19:6)" They were to be priests to
the world. That never happened. So does that mean God forgot about
that promise since Jesus came? God is faithful, even when we are not.
When is this going to happen for the jews, if it hasn't already?

So, why did Jesus preach to the Jews something He knew they wouldn't
understand? They didn't have the holy spirit to understand the things
of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). So why would He preach His death and
resurrection to these people who for hundreds of years had not
understood their own scriptures yet? And, most importantly, that's not
what He preached. He said, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

You know what? Forget about the rest of it. There were two
ministries. Hebrews 8:6 says it. The new ministry or gospel or
whatever else you want to call it is better, but THERE WERE TWO. Also
remember who Hebrews is written to!

From:	Smilie
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Wed, 4 Jan 2005 20:59:55 GMT

them, which we, just because it is immediately
under our nose, generally overlook, in which case we have need to be led
back to it, in order to regain the near and simple view. To this may be
added that women are decidedly more objective than we are, and thus see
no more in things than is really there; while we, when our passions are
excited, easily magnify the existent, or add to it what is imaginary.

We may trace to the same source the fact, that women have more pity, and
therefore show more human love and sympathy for the unhappy, than men;
while in the matter of justice, honesty, and conscientiousness, they are
behind them. For in consequence of their weak intellect, the actual, the
perceptible, the immediately real, exercises a power over them against
which abstract ideas, permanent maxims, firm determinations,
consideration for the past and the future, for the absent and the
distant, can seldom accomplish much. They have therefore the first and
most essential requisite of virtue, but they lack the secondary and
often necessary instrument. One might compare them in this respect to an
organism which possessed indeed the liver but not the gall-bladder. In
accordance with the foregoing we find injustice as the fundamental
failing of the female character. It arises immediately from the want of
reason and reflection above alluded to, and is assisted by the fact that
they, as the weaker, are driven by nature to recourse not to force but
to cunning; hence their instinctive treachery, and their irremediable
tendency to lying. For as nature has armed the lion with claws and
teeth,

From:	Smilie
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:51:09 GMT

> So, why did Jesus preach to the Jews something He knew they wouldn't
> understand? They didn't have the holy spirit to understand the things
> of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).

Now that is dangerous territory.
Are your saying that only those with the holy spirit can understand the
gospel?
If that is what you are saying then you are wrong.
Acts 8:26-39, the example of Philip preaching to the Eunuch from ethiopia.
Philip has the Holy Spirit but the Eunuch does not and yet he understood the
gospel, believed the gospel and so was baptised that very day.
If we required the Holy Spirit to understand the gospel then no one would be
saved.

Why did the Jew as a whole not recieve him? For the hardness of their
hearts. They did not WANT a messiah. They wanted a religion that served
them, not the opposite which is our righteous duty.
It was like Pharaoh in Egypt... greed and stubborn pride combining to bring
about his own destruction.
Never underestimate human stupidity.

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:06:30 GMT

Dear Smilie:
The Angel of the Lord told Phillip to go to the Eunuch. What is not said
here is that the Eunuch must have been praying to God for guidance and
understanding because he could not understand the scripture he was reading
in Isaiah. It should also be noted that he came all of the way from Ethiopia
to worship God. Please note that after Phillip translates Isaiah for him, he
walks him through the scriptures, probably starting with Genesis, proving to
him from Scripture that Jesus Christ , the Messiah would leave heaven and
come to the earth, be born as a man and bleed and die on a cross, and
resurrect from the dead in order to redeem fallen man to himself, in order
to save man from his sins. After this, (from the context) Phillip tells the
Eunuch what is necessary to be saved. When the Eunuch sees the water he asks
why he can't be baptized. Philip responds that as long as he believes that
Jesus Christ is the Son of God he can be baptized, and the Eunuch then says
those wonderful words and is baptized (again, in the context).

What I am saying is that when you or I or any other believer decides to read
God's word, we are to pray to our Father that He will quicken (make alive)
His word for us through the power of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Spirit is the
one that leads us in all spirit and truth. The non-believer does not have
the Holy Spirit in their heart. I know from my own experience. I was raised
in the New Age. By the time that I was 12 years old I had read the Bible
through 5 times. The problem was I read it through the lens of the New Age,
through the Occult. It wasn't until I was saved many years later that God's
word came alive to me, the words were "quickened" to me for the first time.

26. And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go
toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza,
which is desert.

27. And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of
great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of
all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28. Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29. Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this
chariot.

30. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias,
and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31. And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he
desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a
sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened
he not his mouth:

33. In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare
his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom
speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35. Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and
preached unto him Jesus.

36. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the
eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37. And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both
into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord
caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way
rejoicing.

40. But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all
the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

God bless,

Steve Goltra

"Smilie" wrote in message
news:xXAyd.7934$RH4.7704@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> So, why did Jesus preach to the Jews something He knew they wouldn't
>> understand? They didn't have the holy spirit to understand the things
>> of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).
>
> Now that is dangerous territory.
> Are your saying that only those with the holy spirit can understand the
> gospel?
>

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:47:59 GMT

Drews said: "So, why did Jesus preach to the Jews something He knew they
wouldn't
> understand? They didn't have the holy spirit to understand the things
> of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). So why would He preach His death and
> resurrection to these people who for hundreds of years had not
> understood their own scriptures yet? And, most importantly, that's not
> what He preached. He said, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Steve's response: You are confused, Drew. The Holy Spirit comes upon and
within believers after they believe God, not before. Christ's apostles were
all saved, and eventhough they did not know all of the details, they still
believed God, and believed Jesus the Messiah. The other Jews that did not
believe did so because they were not saved, They were unregenerate. They
were lost, the same as people are lost today. They only receive the Holy
Spirit after they believe God, and it is given them to teach and guide the
believer into all truth. Those that don't have the Holy Spirit can read the
Bible, and listen to God's word until the end of time and not be saved. If
they believe God and His Messiah, they will be saved, receive the Holy
Ghost, and then have understanding and knowledge about God's word and be
empowered to witness to the lost, to serve the Lord, etc. etc. etc.

Without being saved, this is all foolishness to the "natural man", whether
he be Jew or Gentile, either before the Cross or after the Cross.

God bless,

Steve Goltra

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:Cfkyd.7388$RH4.3422@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Okay, you just gave me a lot of prophecy of Jesus death and
> resurrection. No argument that He was foretold beginning in Genesis.
> The issue is the gospel being preached to the jews at the time of
> Jesus.
>
> There were two ministries, but they are part of the same plan. There
> was a promise to the Jews. That promise is for them to be "a kingdom
> of priests and a holy nation.(Exodus 19:6)" They were to be priests to
> the world. That never happened. So does that mean God forgot about
> that promise since Jesus came? God is faithful, even when we are not.
> When is this going to happen for the jews, if it hasn't already?
>
> So, why did Jesus preach to the Jews something He knew they wouldn't
> understand? They didn't have the holy spirit to understand the things
> of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). So why would He preach His death and
> resurrection to these people who for hundreds of years had not
> understood their own scriptures yet? And, most importantly, that's not
> what He preached. He said, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
>
> You know what? Forget about the rest of it. There were two
> ministries. Hebrews 8:6 says it. The new ministry or gospel or
> whatever else you want to call it is better, but THERE WERE TWO. Also
> remember who Hebrews is written to!
>
>

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:47:51 GMT

Drew said: ......So, why did Jesus preach to the Jews something He knew they
wouldn't understand? They didn't have the holy spirit to understand the
things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14).

Steve's response: Paul was talking about the natural man, the unsaved man.
This term "natural man" applies to unsaved Jews and unsaved Gentiles, not
just Jews:
14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.

Steve's continued response:
The Holy Spirit came upon and within believers in the Old Testament. The
problem is, until sin was dealt with once and for all by the blood
sacrifice, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit could not
stay with the believer for any length of time. At Pentecost, 50 days after
the Resurrection, after sin was dealt with, the Holy Spirit came upon all of
the believers and now lives and stays within the heart of the believer until
Christ comes to redeem fallen man to himself.

The Holy Spirit came upon and within beleivers before Christ came to this
earth and settled the sin problem once and for all.

Today, after Christ's work on the cross, the Holy Spirit enters the heart of
the believer, AFTER he becomes a
believer (not before) and directs/guides the believer into all truth. John
16:13-14 tells us: " 13. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he
will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but
whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things
to come. 14. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall
shew it unto you."

Exodus (the Old Testament) teaches us that God filled certain believers with
the Holy Spirit for doing specific things/projects to prepare everything
necessary for the Temple and the Priests:

Exodus 28:3-4

3. And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I HAVE FILLED
WITH THE SPIRIT of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate
him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office.

4. And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an
ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they
shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may
minister unto me in the priest's office.

Exodus 31:2-4

2. See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of
the tribe of Judah:

3. And I haveFILLED HIM WITH THE SPIRIT OF GOD, in wisdom, and in
understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

4. To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,

Exodus 35:30-31 ..."The Lord hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri,
the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;

31. And he hath FILLED HIM WITH THE SPIRIT OF GOD, in wisdom, in
understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;

Numbers 11:25-26

25. "And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of
the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it
came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and
did not cease.

26. But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one
was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them;
and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the
tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp"

I could go over many more examples of this indwelling of the Holy Ghost. I
could also site other examples of where the Holy Spirit came upon beleivers
(Sampson, David, etc), but this should suffice.

God bless,

Steve Goltra

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:Cfkyd.7388$RH4.3422@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Okay, you just gave me a lot of prophecy of Jesus death and

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Wed, 4 Jan 2005 20:03:35 GMT

the signs of the
weight that men carry. I am speaking of the weight of reflection. Even
then, women can only do this if they think enough to be granted such a
vision; otherwise they will see men as helpless little boys. It is good
if women can at least think enough to be aware of the strength of men.
Then at least women will be able to see that they themselves are not
gods. I regret that the women of today are not of this calibre. Their
wisdom tells them: "My femininity is itself spirituality. I am
complete!".

Jesus told an applicable story about a farmer and his two sons. The
father asked his sons to work the field for him while he was away. The
younger son was in no mood to work and said, quite honestly, "No". The
elder son said "Yes father, I'd love to do it," but had no intention of
helping. The elder son lived in selfish dream, wanting only to impress
his father, and puff-up his own pride. The younger son later developed
the mind to work and did his father's bidding. The elder son never will,
as he believes he has no work to do.

So it is with all people, being sons of God. It is better to say "No" to
Him, and at least recognize his existence, than to say "Yes" and never
know of Him at all. Woman is like the elder son. Man is the more honest
of the two, and has potential.

The characteristic jealousy and envy of woman is a result of her limited
ego. That is, with its delicate skin, which contains security, but is so
easily punctured. The female ego is simple, with few dependencies, so
when one of these dependencies does fail she is plunged into dire
trouble. When her armour collapses, it collapses totally. The many
safety supports that men have at their disposal are not her's. Nor does
she have man's experience at carrying a burden of pai

From:	Steve Goltra
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:47:33 GMT

Drew said: "There were two ministries, but they are part of the same plan.
There
> was a promise to the Jews. That promise is for them to be "a kingdom
> of priests and a holy nation.(Exodus 19:6)" They were to be priests to
> the world. That never happened. So does that mean God forgot about
> that promise since Jesus came? God is faithful, even when we are not.
> When is this going to happen for the jews, if it hasn't already?"

Steve's response: The Jews will still get their 1,000 millennium with Christ
on the earth. After the millennium, those that are saved will be resurrected
in their order. Christ was the Firstfruits of the resurrection, the Church
[the Gentiles] will be second at the rapture, and they will be third, after
the millennial reign of Christ. All of the saved people entering the
millennium, with most of them being Jews, will be "Kings and Priests" during
this time, the same as the Kings and Priests that we are today. Rev 1:5-6
tells us that if we are saved and washed in Christ's blood, we are Kings and
Priests: "Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own
blood,
6. And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be
glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

1 Cor 15:19-24 " If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all
men most miserable.
20. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of
them that slept.
21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the
dead.
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.23.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that
are Christ's at his coming. 24. Then cometh the end, when he shall have
delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put
down all rule and all authority and power."

The Gospel has always been the Gospel. The Jews knew that Messiah was due.
Many, many of them named their firstborn sons Jesus. They were all looking
forward to the Messiah. That is the Gospel, the appearance of the Messiah
that would save mankind from their sin.

What is your definition of the Gospel, the good news? Just because John the
Baptist said to repent, did that replace the Gospel? The Gospel was created
by God and has never changed, ever. If you think that it has, please prove
it by scripture.

God bless,

Steve Goltra

Hebrews 8:10-13 tells us the following, that will become a reality for the
saved Jews that enter into the Millennium with Christ and His bride (the
Church-the elect):
10. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and
write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be
to me a people:
11. And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his
brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the
greatest.
12. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and
their iniquities will I remember no more.
13. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that
which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:Cfkyd.7388$RH4.3422@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Okay, you just gave me a lot of prophecy of Jesus death and
> resurrection. No argument that He was foretold beginning in Genesis.
> The issue is the gospel being preached to the jews at the time of
> Jesus.
>
> There were two ministries, but they are part of the same plan. There
> was a promise to the Jews. That promise is for them to be "a kingdom
> of priests and a holy nation.(Exodus 19:6)" They were to be priests to
> the world. That never happened. So does that mean God forgot about
> that promise since Jesus came? God is faithful, even when we are not.
> When is this going to happen for the jews, if it hasn't already?
>
> So, why did Jesus preach to the Jews something He knew they wouldn't
> understand? They didn't have the holy spirit to understand the things
> of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). So why would He preach His death and
> resurrection to these people who for hundreds of years had not
> understood their own scriptures yet? And, most importantly, that's not
> what He preached. He said, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
>
> You know what? Forget about the rest of it. There were two
> ministries. Hebrews 8:6 says it. The new ministry or gospel or
> whatever else you want to call it is better, but THERE WERE TWO. Also
> remember who Hebrews is written to!
>
>

From:	TheDrewsk
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:42:08 GMT

Now that is dangerous territory.
Are your saying that only those with the holy spirit can understand the

gospel?

I am saying that "we have received, not the spirit of the world, but
the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given
to us by God".

I am also saying "a natural man does not accept the things of the
Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot
understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."

I didn't write it! Read for yourself 1 Corinthians 2:12-15. Is not
the gospel from God?

Do we not need the Spirit of God to understand the spiritual gospel?
In the same token, why do non-believers get nothing from the bible? Is
it not the spirit who translates for us? In Acts, look at exactly what
happens. He doesn't understand it at first. I would argue that since
the eunuch admitted his ignorance and humbled himself, he was justified
before God. Luke 18, the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector
has a similar circumstance in attitude. That is, it seems that the tax
collector and the eunuch had a similar mind-state towards God, one of
humility. Then he could understand. But, at this point we are talking
about EXACTLY when the Spirit entered the eunuch. I don't know exactly
the moment he could understand with the Spirit. And look at our own
lives. Isn't it a choice, and then a process? Your attitude towards
God determines His workings in your life, and then we are "saved"
(sanctified) through jesus life (Romans 5:10). But I digress......

Good point about underestimating human stupidity. I mean, just watch a
few televangelists. Not all of them, but enough.
Justin the Drewsk
"Watch

From:	Smilie
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:49:50 GMT

As the Eunuch, we have recieved the teaching of the Holy Spirit because
those who wrote the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

"The Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit Gifts" by Brother G. Pearce explains it
quite well.... sorry for the length but it is a hard subject:

"******
The Spirit Of God in the Believer
The purpose of God is to fill the earth with His glory by a generation of
people who do His will and reflect His character, described by Paul when
writing to the Ephesian brethren as a temple fitly framed together for an
habitation of God through the Spirit, Jesus Christ being the chief comer
stone. The process is one of moral perfection, followed by physical
perfection in the divine nature. As Peter says: "According as His divine
power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness...
given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye may
become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is
in the world through lust" (2Pet. 1:3-4). The whole work is the work of God,
with the individual's co-operations. It is all a work of the Holy Spirit,
through the power of the Word and ministrations of angels. The character
that is formed is called "the new man of the Spirit." The Spirit of God is
in such a person.

This is a most wonderful concept, that a new man can be formed, that the
natural mind can be transformed into a Spirit mind, a mind attuned to God's
mind and ways. The reality of this idea is expressed in several similar
expressions in the scriptures, all of them having the basic idea that the
'new man' is begotten of God. Ponder these five passages of scripture:

1. Born of God: "As many as received him. to them he gave power to become
sons of God, even them that believe on his name:

which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will
of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

2. The Father begat us by the Word of Truth: "Of His own will begat he us
with the Word of truth... receive with meekness the engrafted word which is
able to save your souls" (James 1:18-21).

3. Quickened by the Spirit - the Word: "It is the spirit that quickeneth:
the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are
spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63).

4. God's seed remaineth in him: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit
sin; for His (God's) seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is
born of God" (John 3:9).

5. Born of incorruptible seed: "Being born again (from above), not of
corruptible seed but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and
abideth for ever. For all flesh is grass... but the Word of the Lord
endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the gospel is preached unto
you" (1Pet. 1:23-25).

All five passages declare that the spiritual life in us has come from God:
He begat us. His seed is in us. He quickened us, we are born of God. This is
a wonderful happening, which we should continually ponder over.

By the Power of the Word

The placing of these passages side by side plainly shows that the new man
within us, "which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness"
(Eph. 4:24), was begotten by the Word of God. Peter says an incorruptible
seed of God has brought about the new birth, and this has come in the word
of the gospel; James says plainly. He begat us with the Word of truth; and
Jesus says the Word is spirit and quickens. The begetting power was in the
Word of God; and by this means the spirit of God is in us. These scriptures
are written for us to believe and accept.

Not only does the Spirit-Word beget us, but it is the means of continuing
growth; for Peter follows on where we stopped our quotation: "Wherefore
laying aside all malice and all guile... as newborn babes, desire the
sincere milk of the Word that ye may grow thereby." So it is not a true idea
that the Holy Spirit Gift takes over at baptism and guides the individual in
righteousness; no, his devotion to the Word of God and its power is the
source of growth. Surely that which initiates life, which brings light where
there was darkness, is capable and suitable for sustaining life and growth.

But though the transforming power resides in the Word of God, it only
becomes effective in the believer by his application of this word to
himself. As Bro. Roberts wrote in the preface to the Bible Companion:
"Salvation depends upon the assimilation of the mind to the divine ideas,
principles, and affections exhibited in the Scriptures. This process
commences with a belief of the gospel, but is by no means completed thereby;
it takes a life-time for its scope. and untiring diligence for its
accomplishment. The mind is naturally alien from God and all His ideas (Rom.
8:7; 1Cor. 2:14), and cannot be brought at once to the divine likeness. This
is a work of slow development, and can only be achieved by the industrious
application of the individual to the means which God has given for this
purpose, viz.. the expression of His mind in the Scriptures of Truth:
spiritual-mindedness. or the state of mind in accordance with the mind of
the Spirit as displayed in these writings can only grow within a man by
daily intercourse with that mind. there unfolded."

******"

This is sound reasoning.

John 6:66 - From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no
more with him.

If the Holy Spirit was shaping them without their effort, then they would
not have departed.

If the Holy Spirit came to shape our inner person then wouldnt we sin less
as we got older? But people long under the protection of Christs blood still
sin. So God must work on us in a different way, a way not metaphysical.

Unfortunately as I said in my email, im away for the next two weeks. So for
the moment I wont see your reply. I think the Christnet will have removed
the topic by then too :(.

--
Love makes God make the world go round!
:)
Luv Matthew (Smilie) Lyon

"TheDrewsk" wrote in message
news:QrDyd.7519$9j5.758@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Now that is dangerous territory.
> Are your saying that only those with the holy spirit can understand the
> gospel?
>

===Quote snipped in order to post long message -- Mod.

From:	lbrty4us at aol.com
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:52:26 GMT

Steve Goltra wrote:
> This is addressed to Drew (AKA Frank, AKA Lbrty4us):

This person appears to have some sort of mental identity or emotional
problem.(?) BTW, even the devil knows the gospel cold, yes?

From:	Muz
Subject:	Re: The Never Changing Gospel
Date:	Wed, 4 Jan 2005 17:57:32 GMT

that she can hold him fast.

Woman has a dangerous rapport with finitude in a way quite different
from man. She is, as The Seducer says, a mystification (see "The
Banquet"); there is a moment in her life when she deceptively appears to
be infinitude itself - and that is when man is captured. And as a wife
she is quite simply - finitude.

- What the judge in the second part of "Either/Or" says in his way about
women is to be expected from a married man who, ethically inspired,
champions marriage.

Woman could be called "the lust for life." There is undoubtedly lust for
life in man, but essentially he is structured to be spirit, and if he
were alone, left all alone to himself, he would not know (here the judge
is right) how to begin, and he would never really get around to
beginning.

But then "the lust for life," which is within him indefinitely, becomes
manifest to him externally in another form, in the form of woman, who is
the lust for life: and now the lust for life awakens.

Likewise, what is said by The Seducer (in "The Banquet") about woman
being bait is very true. And strange as it may seem, it is nevertheless
a fact that the very thing which makes the seducer so demonic and makes
it hard for any poet to contrive such a character is that in the form of
knowledge he has at his disposal the whole Christian ascetic view of
woman - except that he employs it in his own way. He has knowledge in
common with the ascetic, the hermit, but they take off from this
knowledge in a c