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 | | From: | Muz | | Subject: | Re: Eternal Security (OSAS) | | Date: | Fri, 14 Jan 2005 00:21:36 GMT |
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 | >Steve's response: Your post crys out with a lack of understanding of
who and
>what God really is. It really comes across as that of a God hater, not
a
>child of God that loves Him with all their heart, mind and spirit.
Ad hominim attacks are the most begrudging (and satisfying) admission
of defeat.
The fact is that none of what you have posted in any way refutes my
argument. I have no disagreement with you about God's present
knowledge.
The question was asked rhetorically, with an implied answer of "no"
showing that theological systems that embrace determinism (whether
compatiblistic of not) ultimately must place the responsibility for sin
on God. Thus, the theology that generates that conclusion must be
incorrect. The fact is that you place responsibility for sin and death
with God, whereas I put the responsibility on men.
Muz
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| | From: | Steve Goltra | | Subject: | Re: Eternal Security (OSAS) | | Date: | Fri, 14 Jan 2005 05:31:22 GMT |
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| In the Old Testament, we are told that God loved Jacob, but hated Esau.
Malachi 1:2-3
2. I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved
us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,
3. And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the
dragons of the wilderness.
In the New Testament, the truth is further revealed to us. Even in the womb,
before they were even born, God already knew that Esau would be a man of the
flesh, a man not interested in a relationship with the living God, and Jacob
would be a man after His (God's) own heart. God saw the end before the
beginning (birth) ever took place.
Romans 9:7-25
For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:
but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the
children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara
shall have a son.
10. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by
our father Isaac;
11. (FOR THE CHILDREN BEING NOT YET BORN, NEITHER HAVING DONE ANY GOOD OR
EVIL, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, NOT OF
WORK, BUT OF HIM THAT CALLETH;)
12. IT WAS SAID UNTO HER, THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER.
13. AS IT IS WRITTEN, JACOB HAVE I LOVED, BUT EASU HAVE I HATED.
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of
mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the
Gentiles?
25. As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not
my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
Hebrews gives us further understanding about the depravity that existed in
Esau, that God knew was there before he was even born:
Hebrews 12:14-17
"14. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall
see the Lord:
15. Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any
root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16. Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one
morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the
blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he
sought it carefully with tears."
God is outside of time and space. Like those people in a blimp, that are
high above the parade route. As they look down upon a parade, that is over 5
miles long, they can see at one time the people that are just starting off,
as well as those that are at the end of the parade, 5 miles away. God knows
in advance who will be drawn to Him, those who will seek Him out and those
who will not- those who will reject Him.
This is Gods creation and even though he has provided his creatures, you and
me, with free will, His preordained plan for mankind is on course. The most
that we can do as believers is ask for more time, like Hezekiah, who was
successful, through prayer, to add another 15 years onto his own life. That
extra time span did not alter God's plan of sending the Jews into captivity
in Babylon for 70 years. That still took place, just like everything else
that God has planned for us will also take place, at His timing..
God bless,
Steve Goltra
"Muz" wrote in message
news:kgEFd.6664$Ii4.844@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >Steve's response: Your post crys out with a lack of understanding of
> who and
>>what God really is. It really comes across as that of a God hater, not
> a
>>child of God that loves Him with all their heart, mind and spirit.
>
>
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