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 | | From: | Steve Goltra | | Subject: | Re: Open View Theism | | Date: | Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:52:16 GMT |
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 | Steve said:
This is what God's Word says about the Abrahamic covenant, an EVERLASTING
Covenant". Please note that it is quite clear that is addressed to Abraham
and his descendents (Jews) as an everlasting covenant, FOR THE GENERATIONS
TO COME:
An Everlasting Covenant .
Genesis 17:7-9 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant
between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to
come, to be your God and the God of YOUR DESCENDENTS after you.The whole
land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting
possession to you and YOUR DESCENDENTS after you; and I will be THEIR God."
Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and
YOUR DESCENDENTS after you for THE GENERATIONS TO COME.
Muz, be kind enough to fill us all in on exactly what a Suezarian-Vassel
covenant is? Where is it mentioned in the Bible (exactly) and who was a part
of it. I surely cannot find it in any reference book that I have, and I
cannot find it on the World Wide Web.
God bless,
Steve
"Muz" wrote in message
news:NwTGd.9146$pZ4.2200@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >Again, I will try to be clear. God never followed through, at any time
> with
> > "brought
> >
> However, the covenant included the promise of the Land of Israel (In
> fact, it is the key element), and they lost possession of the land many
> times, including during the 70 years exile to Babylon.
>
>>Typically this consisted of boys and girls below the age of majority.
> In
>>Israel's case, that was 20 years old. In the case of the Abrahamic
> covenant,
>>which is an unconditional covenant, with the only condition that
> Abraham had
>>to comply with was to "leave"- Genesis 12:1 tells us "1. Now the Lord
> had
>>said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred,
> and from
>>thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:"
>>Abraham complied with his part. From Genesis 12:2-3 we FIND SEVEN (7)
> "I
>>WILLS PROVIDED BY GOD (NOT SUZERIAN-VASSEL). There are never any other
>>requirements required of Abraham: "2. And I will make of thee a great
>>nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt
> be a
>>blessing: 3. And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that
>>curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."
>
> The covenant comes about in various parts throughout the story of
> Abram/Abraham. One of the major key elements in the LAND. Did and
> does Israel remain in control of the land from the time the covenant
> was established until now?
>
>>That's it, the Abrahamic covenant. Now fast forward to just one of the
> times
>>that God threatened to kill all of the Israelites, save Moses. Numbers
>>14:1-45 tells the story. God chose to let the "little ones" enter the
> land,
>>into His Rest (another Bible study). What is the definition of "little
>>ones"- those under 20 years old. The reference to "little ones" can be
> found
>>in Numbers 14:31 and the reference to who will not be allowed in the
> promise
>>land can be found in Numbers 14:29. The reason for this is again the
>>Abrahamic blood covenant ritual [Not "Suezarian-Vassel"]- How in the
> world
>>anyone can you compare the berius that God shares with Abraham to a
>>Suezarian-Vassel "whatever" should be very interesting- I would like
> to read
>>it!
>
> The Siniatic covenant is a subsequent covenant and a fulfillment of
> part of the covenant with Abraham, so, in a sense, the children of
> Israel are part of two covenants and eventually part of three (four or
> five, depending on whether you include the Adamic and Noahic covenants,
> the other being the Davidic covenant.) The Siniatic (Mosaic) covenant
> is Suezarian-Vassel in nature, and is the one formed directly with the
> people of Israel. It is conditional in nature (if people of God do X,
> God will do Y.)
>
>>[Of note here is that God never has followed through with His threat
> to
>>kill all of His people and leave one or two men alive.
>
> I agree. God never followed through on the threat. We're also told
> why: He changed His mind.
>
>>As I have said before, God, who had a face to face relationship with
> Moses,
>>tested him.
>
> Again, you need to provide scriptural evidence for this. It's simply
> not in the text, nor is it in any way implied by the text. It is not
> beyond the bounds of covenant or reason for God to do exactly as He
> threatened to do.
>
>>That's it, Muz. I will not go any further on this thread. I really do
> not
>>expect you to follow this and I do not want to spend any more time
> with it.
>
> I understand what you're trying to say. Unfortunately, it isn't
> supported by the text, and winds up being your constructed systematic
> theology inserting into scripture, rather than scripture informing your
> systematic theology.
>
> Muz
>
>
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