Without "being there", I am going to suggest there was a dirty contact
somewhere, that once the system read a low ink level, the other
cartridges did not register to remedy because that contact was not
getting new data from the new cartridges.

I suspect the contact got renewed once enough cartridges were run by it
during the testing process, and then they began to work. Possibly, the
other two might also work now.

However, although I don't know enough about HP printers, they might have
a problem similar to that which can crop up on Epsons with the Inteledge
chip. Occasionally, the printer will shut down waiting a replacement
cartridge due to an empty tank... with many Epson they use separate ink
tanks for each color. A person would replace the necessary color, but
due to a mess up in process, the printer would not acknowledge the new
cartridge (likely due to a dirty contact, or other similar problem).
When this happens with the Epson, if you then shut the printer down, it
will write the level of the last known cartridge to the chip on the new
one, and therefore deeming the new cartridge as "empty" also. This
cartridge is then read as empty unless the chip is reset with an
external or software resetting device, which many people do not own.

I am unsure if HP printers can create the same scenario or not.

Art

Orak Listalavostok wrote:

> Orak Listalavostok wrote:
>
>>The unexplained HP engineering is why did three HP14 c5010a ink
>>tanks (all of which were placed in service on the same date with
>>all but one of which were immediately removed from service) report
>>"COLOR INK OUT" (even when 2 of the 3 were full of HP OEM ink!)?
>
>
> ... twas the night before Christmas ... my HP ink level sank ...
> ... not a printer was printing ... nary one of 3 tanks ...
>
> The good news:
> - We're back printing beautifully (better than before) scores of prints
> - Using (strangely) the original HP14 c5010a tri-color cartridge
> - Which previously exhibited the correct "COLOR INK OUT" message!
>
> The bad news:
> - I have no idea what particular event "cleared" the HP "memory"
>
> The lessons learned:
> - Switching the three cartridges Dec 24 had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
> - Filling the one empty cartridge also had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
> - Removing the CR2032 3V CMOS battery had no immediate efect ...
>
> The day after:
> - Yet, about 12 hours later (on Christmas day)
> - The completely full cartridge was removed ...
> - And then replaced with the original empty cartridge ...
>
> And it printed without error!
> After subsequent refilling ... the original PRINTER INK OUT HP14
> tri-color ink cartridge is printing beautifully vibrant photos even
> after scores of sheets of paper (and multiple refills).
>
> I guess it's the first Christmas present from HP to all of us.
> I can't explain it; if you can - please do!
>
> Orak Listalavostok
>

From:	Robert Baer
Subject:	Re: Damn HP!!!
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 07:58:30 GMT

Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
> Without "being there", I am going to suggest there was a dirty contact
> somewhere, that once the system read a low ink level, the other
> cartridges did not register to remedy because that contact was not
> getting new data from the new cartridges.
>
> I suspect the contact got renewed once enough cartridges were run by it
> during the testing process, and then they began to work. Possibly, the
> other two might also work now.
>
> However, although I don't know enough about HP printers, they might have
> a problem similar to that which can crop up on Epsons with the Inteledge
> chip. Occasionally, the printer will shut down waiting a replacement
> cartridge due to an empty tank... with many Epson they use separate ink
> tanks for each color. A person would replace the necessary color, but
> due to a mess up in process, the printer would not acknowledge the new
> cartridge (likely due to a dirty contact, or other similar problem).
> When this happens with the Epson, if you then shut the printer down, it
> will write the level of the last known cartridge to the chip on the new
> one, and therefore deeming the new cartridge as "empty" also. This
> cartridge is then read as empty unless the chip is reset with an
> external or software resetting device, which many people do not own.
>
> I am unsure if HP printers can create the same scenario or not.
>
> Art
>
> Orak Listalavostok wrote:
>
> > Orak Listalavostok wrote:
> >
> >>The unexplained HP engineering is why did three HP14 c5010a ink
> >>tanks (all of which were placed in service on the same date with
> >>all but one of which were immediately removed from service) report
> >>"COLOR INK OUT" (even when 2 of the 3 were full of HP OEM ink!)?
> >
> >
> > ... twas the night before Christmas ... my HP ink level sank ...
> > ... not a printer was printing ... nary one of 3 tanks ...
> >
> > The good news:
> > - We're back printing beautifully (better than before) scores of prints
> > - Using (strangely) the original HP14 c5010a tri-color cartridge
> > - Which previously exhibited the correct "COLOR INK OUT" message!
> >
> > The bad news:
> > - I have no idea what particular event "cleared" the HP "memory"
> >
> > The lessons learned:
> > - Switching the three cartridges Dec 24 had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
> > - Filling the one empty cartridge also had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
> > - Removing the CR2032 3V CMOS battery had no immediate efect ...
> >
> > The day after:
> > - Yet, about 12 hours later (on Christmas day)
> > - The completely full cartridge was removed ...
> > - And then replaced with the original empty cartridge ...
> >
> > And it printed without error!
> > After subsequent refilling ... the original PRINTER INK OUT HP14
> > tri-color ink cartridge is printing beautifully vibrant photos even
> > after scores of sheets of paper (and multiple refills).
> >
> > I guess it's the first Christmas present from HP to all of us.
> > I can't explain it; if you can - please do!
> >
> > Orak Listalavostok
> >

It is not easy to mess up a *gold* contact...

From:	Arthur Entlich
Subject:	Re: Damn HP!!!
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:47:57 GMT

Let's just say it is LESS easy. Epson uses gold plated contacts for
their cartridge contacts as well, and they still occasionally have problems.

As I stated, I wasn't there, so I'm guessing. I'm assuming the incident
was accurately reported, and I can't think of a good reason for a
cartridge with a head built in would have a expiration date that would
shut down the printer.

It's always possible there was another malfunction of some sort. Not
every incident can be explained logically in lock-step.

Art

Robert Baer wrote:
>
> It is not easy to mess up a *gold* contact...

From:	Ed Clarke
Subject:	Re: Damn HP!!!
Date:	28 Dec 2004 13:58:17 GMT

In article , Arthur Entlich wrote:

> As I stated, I wasn't there, so I'm guessing. I'm assuming the incident
> was accurately reported, and I can't think of a good reason for a
> cartridge with a head built in would have a expiration date that would
> shut down the printer.

A good reason? From the manufacturers point of view, refilling is a very
bad thing to do. Most of the profit comes from those cartridges, not from
the printer price. Anything you can do to prevent refilling increases the
bottom line.

--
"De inimico non loquaris sed cogites."

From:	Rod Speed
Subject:	Re: Damn HP!!!
Date:	Wed, 29 Dec 2004 05:07:27 +1100

"Ed Clarke" wrote in message
news:33d73pF3uta3tU1@individual.net...
> In article , Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> As I stated, I wasn't there, so I'm guessing. I'm assuming the incident
>> was accurately reported, and I can't think of a good reason for a
>> cartridge with a head built in would have a expiration date that would
>> shut down the printer.
>
> A good reason? From the manufacturers point of view, refilling is a very
> bad thing to do. Most of the profit comes from those cartridges, not from
> the printer price. Anything you can do to prevent refilling increases the
> bottom line.

As long as you dont go too far and have customers
buy the competition's printers instead.

From:	Arthur Entlich
Subject:	Re: Damn HP!!!
Date:	Wed, 29 Dec 2004 04:07:18 GMT

However, the original poster did not indicate he had refilled until much
later in the thread, and, if I read the thread correctly, he had only
refilled one of the cartridges but was having problems with several
original non-refilled cartridges, as well.

Art

Ed Clarke wrote:

> In article , Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>
>>As I stated, I wasn't there, so I'm guessing. I'm assuming the incident
>>was accurately reported, and I can't think of a good reason for a
>>cartridge with a head built in would have a expiration date that would
>>shut down the printer.
>
>
> A good reason? From the manufacturers point of view, refilling is a very
> bad thing to do. Most of the profit comes from those cartridges, not from
> the printer price. Anything you can do to prevent refilling increases the
> bottom line.
>

From:	Ed Clarke
Subject:	Re: Damn HP!!!
Date:	29 Dec 2004 14:12:37 GMT

In article , Arthur Entlich wrote:
> However, the original poster did not indicate he had refilled until much
> later in the thread, and, if I read the thread correctly, he had only
> refilled one of the cartridges but was having problems with several
> original non-refilled cartridges, as well.

You miss the point. HP presumes that you ARE refilling, whether or not
that's true. It's an expiration date, whether or not it's being refilled.
This has the effect of requiring you to buy a new cartridge if you're
refilling it and printing 500 pages per week, or not refilling and printing
one page per month. They get their money, either way.

--
"De inimico non loquaris sed cogites."

From:	Rod Speed
Subject:	Re: Damn HP!!!
Date:	Wed, 29 Dec 2004 05:06:15 +1100

"Robert Baer" wrote in message
news:41CFC0A1.6F75BB8D@earthlink.net...
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>>
>> Without "being there", I am going to suggest there was a dirty contact
>> somewhere, that once the system read a low ink level, the other
>> cartridges did not register to remedy because that contact was not
>> getting new data from the new cartridges.
>>
>> I suspect the contact got renewed once enough cartridges were run by it
>> during the testing process, and then they began to work. Possibly, the
>> other two might also work now.
>>
>> However, although I don't know enough about HP printers, they might have
>> a problem similar to that which can crop up on Epsons with the Inteledge
>> chip. Occasionally, the printer will shut down waiting a replacement
>> cartridge due to an empty tank... with many Epson they use separate ink
>> tanks for each color. A person would replace the necessary color, but
>> due to a mess up in process, the printer would not acknowledge the new
>> cartridge (likely due to a dirty contact, or other similar problem).
>> When this happens with the Epson, if you then shut the printer down, it
>> will write the level of the last known cartridge to the chip on the new
>> one, and therefore deeming the new cartridge as "empty" also. This
>> cartridge is then read as empty unless the chip is reset with an
>> external or software resetting device, which many people do not own.
>>
>> I am unsure if HP printers can create the same scenario or not.
>>
>> Art
>>
>> Orak Listalavostok wrote:
>>
>> > Orak Listalavostok wrote:
>> >
>> >>The unexplained HP engineering is why did three HP14 c5010a ink
>> >>tanks (all of which were placed in service on the same date with
>> >>all but one of which were immediately removed from service) report
>> >>"COLOR INK OUT" (even when 2 of the 3 were full of HP OEM ink!)?
>> >
>> >
>> > ... twas the night before Christmas ... my HP ink level sank ...
>> > ... not a printer was printing ... nary one of 3 tanks ...
>> >
>> > The good news:
>> > - We're back printing beautifully (better than before) scores of prints
>> > - Using (strangely) the original HP14 c5010a tri-color cartridge
>> > - Which previously exhibited the correct "COLOR INK OUT" message!
>> >
>> > The bad news:
>> > - I have no idea what particular event "cleared" the HP "memory"
>> >
>> > The lessons learned:
>> > - Switching the three cartridges Dec 24 had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
>> > - Filling the one empty cartridge also had no effect on COLOR INK OUT
>> > - Removing the CR2032 3V CMOS battery had no immediate efect ...
>> >
>> > The day after:
>> > - Yet, about 12 hours later (on Christmas day)
>> > - The completely full cartridge was removed ...
>> > - And then replaced with the original empty cartridge ...
>> >
>> > And it printed without error!
>> > After subsequent refilling ... the original PRINTER INK OUT HP14
>> > tri-color ink cartridge is printing beautifully vibrant photos even
>> > after scores of sheets of paper (and multiple refills).
>> >
>> > I guess it's the first Christmas present from HP to all of us.
>> > I can't explain it; if you can - please do!
>> >
>> > Orak Listalavostok
>> >
>
> It is not easy to mess up a *gold* contact...

How little you know.

Its a lot easier than you might think and has been a problem
for the industry for decades now, even with full wiping contacts.

From:	Sharon Smith
Subject:	Re: Damn HP!!!
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 03:32:11 GMT

"Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
news:IUxzd.28542$dv1.27080@edtnps89...
> I suspect the contact got renewed once enough cartridges were run by it
> during the testing process, and then they began to work. Possibly, the
> other two might also work now.
>
> Occasionally, the printer will shut down waiting a replacement cartridge
> due to an empty tank... with many Epson they use separate ink tanks for
> each color. A person would replace the necessary color, but due to a mess
> up in process, the printer would not acknowledge the new cartridge (likely
> due to a dirty contact, or other similar problem). When this happens with
> the Epson, if you then shut the printer down, it will write the level of
> the last known cartridge to the chip on the new one, and therefore deeming
> the new cartridge as "empty" also. This cartridge is then read as empty
> unless the chip is reset with an external or software resetting device,
> which many people do not own.

This sounds like what happened to his HP office jet.
I'm guessing the HP printer's COPPER (not gold!) contacts are dirty.

Best to get some sandpaper of a decent grit, say 300 grit, and scrape
down the contacts in both the printer and on the cartridge until they lose
their copper color and turn a metalic gray color.

This is what is recommended on the HP site anyway.

From:	Robert Baer
Subject:	Re: Damn HP!!!
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:16:37 GMT

Sharon Smith wrote:
>
> "Arthur Entlich" wrote in message
> news:IUxzd.28542$dv1.27080@edtnps89...
> > I suspect the contact got renewed once enough cartridges were run by it
> > during the testing process, and then they began to work. Possibly, the
> > other two might also work now.
> >
> > Occasionally, the printer will shut down waiting a replacement cartridge
> > due to an empty tank... with many Epson they use separate ink tanks for
> > each color. A person would replace the necessary color, but due to a mess
> > up in process, the printer would not acknowledge the new cartridge (likely
> > due to a dirty contact, or other similar problem). When this happens with
> > the Epson, if you then shut the printer down, it will write the level of
> > the last known cartridge to the chip on the new one, and therefore deeming
> > the new cartridge as "empty" also. This cartridge is then read as empty
> > unless the chip is reset with an external or software resetting device,
> > which many people do not own.
>
> This sounds like what happened to his HP office jet.
> I'm guessing the HP printer's COPPER (not gold!) contacts are dirty.
>
> Best to get some sandpaper of a decent grit, say 300 grit, and scrape
> down the contacts in both the printer and on the cartridge until they lose
> their copper color and turn a metalic gray color.
>
> This is what is recommended on the HP site anyway.

All of the HP, Lexmart, Cannon and Epson inkjet cartridges that i have
had gold contacts.
Copper can get a rather non-conductive oxide and/or sulfide film
rather fast in some areas.
If you can easily sandpaper off that color, it ain't copper; no
manufacturer would plate a thin film of copper onto any other metal -
but they would plate a thin film of gold.
Copper has a "reddish" color (look at a new uncirculated penny for
reference), and gold has a "yellowish" color (look at a 24 carat gold
coin, like a standing liberty or a maple leaf for reference).

I would suggest that you do some research.

From:	Bob Headrick
Subject:	Re: HP!!!
Date:	Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:42:31 -0800

"Sharon Smith" wrote in message
news:%s4Ad.4063$Y8.1687@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...

> This sounds like what happened to his HP office jet.
> I'm guessing the HP printer's COPPER (not gold!) contacts are dirty.
>
> Best to get some sandpaper of a decent grit, say 300 grit, and scrape
> down the contacts in both the printer and on the cartridge until they lose
> their copper color and turn a metalic gray color.

To do so will ruin both the cartridge and the printer. The contacts on all HP
printers and cartridges are gold. Some have a lube applied over the gold to
prevent the gold on gold contact from welding itself together. In some rare
cases this lube may crystallize, causing a poor contact. See:
http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=bpa02060

> This is what is recommended on the HP site anyway.

This is totally false. Please provide a link for your claim. Anyone who
follows your advise will likely ruin their printer, requiring repair or
replacement.

- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP