hi there

we plan to merge from our old macos9x environment
to a number of new g5 workstation running macosx.

question 1:
we own a huge amount of type 1 fonts we'd like to
continue to use under macosx. is this possible?
do they need some sort of conversion? anything special
we should take care of?

question 2:
90 percent of all layout documents we've produced
in the past are quark passport 4.11 type and we plan
to use quark passport 6.5 under macosx. how about
importing and converting 4.11 documents into 6.5?
does 4.11 read 6.5? any special guidelines we
should apply?

question 3:
how does font management work under macosx? i know
that macosx has built-in support for type 1 ps screen
and printer fonts and can also handle tt as well as
ot fonts. but how about activating and deactivating,
sorting and filing the hundreds of font collections?
how is this usually done in a macosx prepress/graphic
production environment?

question 4:
is there type reunion for macosx?

a lot of questions and i'd be happy to get
some feedback. i'm sure a lot of you have already
merged and it's about time for us too.

thanks
chris

From:	Dave Balderstone
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:27:26 -0600

In article <344thsF45ttcsU1@individual.net>, Chris Eckert
wrote:

> question 1:
> we own a huge amount of type 1 fonts we'd like to
> continue to use under macosx. is this possible?

Yes

> do they need some sort of conversion?

No

> anything special
> we should take care of?

Invest in a font manager. Don't even think about using FontBook in a
professional environment.

>
> question 2:
> 90 percent of all layout documents we've produced
> in the past are quark passport 4.11 type and we plan
> to use quark passport 6.5 under macosx. how about
> importing and converting 4.11 documents into 6.5?

No idea.

> does 4.11 read 6.5?

No.

> any special guidelines we
> should apply?

Consider switching to Indesign.

>
> question 3:
> how does font management work under macosx? i know
> that macosx has built-in support for type 1 ps screen
> and printer fonts and can also handle tt as well as
> ot fonts. but how about activating and deactivating,
> sorting and filing the hundreds of font collections?
> how is this usually done in a macosx prepress/graphic
> production environment?

We use Suitcase Server and client from Extensis. Despite what some here
say about it, we find it's reliable. For info on how we configure fonts
and font management see

>
> question 4:
> is there type reunion for macosx?

No, but there are alternatives. Do a search at www.versiontracker.com

From:	Lee Blevins
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Thu, 6 Jan 2005 19:02:15 -0500

Dave Balderstone wrote:

> Invest in a font manager. Don't even think about using FontBook in a
> professional environment.

That ain't necessarily so.

Don't even think of adding thirdparty software to OS X to manage fonts.

If you want an example of why not, call Apple and tell them you're
having font problems and you're using Suitcase.

First thing they'll tell you is to remove Suitcase.

From:	Dave Balderstone
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 18:58:31 -0600

In article <1gpze2v.xz3zn73tdn06N%leeb@digitalgraphics.net>, Lee
Blevins wrote:

> If you want an example of why not, call Apple and tell them you're
> having font problems and you're using Suitcase.

Why would I do that? I'm not having font problems, and am using
Suitcase and Suitcase Server to manage 20 seats and over 4,000 fonts.

Even Apple will tell you that FontBook is not designed to manage fonts
in a professional design or prepress environs.

From:	Lee Blevins
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Thu, 6 Jan 2005 20:44:26 -0500

Dave Balderstone wrote:

> In article <1gpze2v.xz3zn73tdn06N%leeb@digitalgraphics.net>, Lee
> Blevins wrote:
>
> > If you want an example of why not, call Apple and tell them you're
> > having font problems and you're using Suitcase.
>
> Why would I do that? I'm not having font problems, and am using
> Suitcase and Suitcase Server to manage 20 seats and over 4,000 fonts.
>
> Even Apple will tell you that FontBook is not designed to manage fonts
> in a professional design or prepress environs.

Apple certainly does not say that. And if you want an opinion form Apple
on using Suitcase simply report an unstable computer and the first thing
they'll ask you to do is remove Suitcase.

I am in a professional prepress and design environment. I manage about
4x the fonts you claim.

Perhaps you can tell me what the advantage of Suitcase is over Fontbook?

I don't see any at all.

Is there something it can do that Fontbook can't do?

I can tell you one annoying feacture of Suitcase that I don't miss.

That is when you mount a font from a cd and find you can't efject the cd
because it claims the font is in use even after you completely remove
the set.

And when you change the contents of a font folder and try to add it back
to suitcase only to find it won't forget the old font list.

Suitcase is crap and gone. I don't miss it all all.

I got tired of the updates to Suitcase. The flavor of the month was the
only claim to it's many bugs. "Oh it's because you're using 10.x01a and
not 11.a04c.

It's gone, never to be on a computer I manage again.

We process thousands of job per year and see absolutely no need or use
for it. We manage the fonts on a per job basis with fonts located in
each job in their own font folders with mulitiple users accessing them.
We manage the fonts fine between OS X and Classic environments.

If you want to donate to Extensis be my guest but I operate a
professional prepress/design environment with Rampage, Scitex and other
rips and have no problem at all with Fontbook. Perhaps you can enlighten
me about it's shortcomings. So far I see none.

If font auto activation is your thing it's not mine.

When we were using Suitcase we removed the annoying extensions it placed
in applications. We have far too many customers who are far to critical
of the type they create to allow auto anything.

We must be in absolute control of what font is being loaded and when.

From:	Ted
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Thu, 6 Jan 2005 22:26:11 -0500

> >
> > > If you want an example of why not, call Apple and tell them you're
> > > having font problems and you're using Suitcase.
> >
> > Why would I do that? I'm not having font problems, and am using
> > Suitcase and Suitcase Server to manage 20 seats and over 4,000 fonts.
> >
> > Even Apple will tell you that FontBook is not designed to manage fonts
> > in a professional design or prepress environs.
>
> Apple certainly does not say that. And if you want an opinion form Apple
> on using Suitcase simply report an unstable computer and the first thing
> they'll ask you to do is remove Suitcase.
>
> I am in a professional prepress and design environment. I manage about
> 4x the fonts you claim.
>
> Perhaps you can tell me what the advantage of Suitcase is over Fontbook?
>
> I don't see any at all.
>
Doesn't Fontbook actually copies the fonts that you activate?

BTW I have no trouble with Suitcase in OSX.

Ted

From:	Dave Balderstone
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:13:22 -0600

In article <1gpzi39.mvtnkrreapc6N%leeb@digitalgraphics.net>, Lee
Blevins wrote:

> Apple certainly does not say that.

I was on a font panel at Seybold 2003 and that certainly was expressed
by the Apple rep seated to my left.

I confess to not understanding why you feel it necessary to be hostile
to me, but I'll remember it and will take pains to avoid replying to
you in the future. Please consider showing me the same courtesy.

From:	Lee Blevins
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Fri, 7 Jan 2005 06:35:18 -0500

Dave Balderstone wrote:

> In article <1gpzi39.mvtnkrreapc6N%leeb@digitalgraphics.net>, Lee
> Blevins wrote:
>
> > Apple certainly does not say that.
>
> I was on a font panel at Seybold 2003 and that certainly was expressed
> by the Apple rep seated to my left.

That hardly makes an official position for apple. I'd like to see a
single document from Apple that says their Fontbook is inferior and they
would suggest you use third party software to manage fonts.
>
>
>
> I confess to not understanding why you feel it necessary to be hostile
> to me, but I'll remember it and will take pains to avoid replying to
> you in the future. Please consider showing me the same courtesy.

You make blatantly false statements and mislead people seeking advice.

I'll take this as

1) You didn't name a single advantage of Suitcase over Fontbook.

2) You have no response to those annoying features (bugs) of suitcase.

As for you and Ted, sure you can make suitcase work but my point is why?

With the known bugs and no advantages it's just your decision to stick
with what you know and not learn something new.

That is no reason to mislead someone who is seeking information.

I'll repeat my position for the original poster. There is no reason at
all to spend money on a third party font manager if you are using OS X.

From:	Dave Balderstone
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 07:24:28 -0600

In article <1gq09lv.180z2t1qioz8iN%leeb@digitalgraphics.net>, Lee
Blevins wrote:

> You make blatantly false statements and mislead people seeking advice.

Bullshit. I've done no such thing.

> I'll take this as
>
> 1) You didn't name a single advantage of Suitcase over Fontbook.

Autoactivation. With Server, the ability to control font licences and
ensure commoin sets of fonts between and among workgroups.

> 2) You have no response to those annoying features (bugs) of suitcase.

I have no experience with them. Suitcase simply works here.

Buh-bye, Lee. I have no interest in an ongoing conversation with you.

From:	Lee Blevins
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Fri, 7 Jan 2005 18:00:55 -0500

Dave Balderstone wrote:

> In article <1gq09lv.180z2t1qioz8iN%leeb@digitalgraphics.net>, Lee
> Blevins wrote:
>
> > You make blatantly false statements and mislead people seeking advice.
>
> Bullshit. I've done no such thing.

Sure you did, You said:

"Even Apple will tell you that FontBook is not designed to manage fonts
in a professional design or prepress environs."

and they don't and won't tell you that there's anything wrong with
Fontbook.

So where's that document from apple that says Fontbook is not suited for
professionals?

>
> > I'll take this as
> >
> > 1) You didn't name a single advantage of Suitcase over Fontbook.
>
> Autoactivation. With Server, the ability to control font licences and
> ensure commoin sets of fonts between and among workgroups.
>
> > 2) You have no response to those annoying features (bugs) of suitcase.
>
> I have no experience with them. Suitcase simply works here.
>
> Buh-bye, Lee. I have no interest in an ongoing conversation with you.

That's what you said before but you couldn't resist, eh?

From:	Chris Eckert
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 12:04:12 +0100

hi all, thanks for the input.

so i conclude:

(1)
it'll be possible to use existing type 1
font sets bought for macos9x without conversion.

(2)
xpress 6x DOES NOT read xpress 4x documents
at all. so we'll have to build up all documents
from scratch again.

(3)
concerning font management, some of you
prefer fontbook (the tool that comes with
macosx, i guess) over suitcase.
here i'm not clear yet.

(4)
what alternatives for type reunion do
you use under macosx?

thanks
chris

From:	Mike Powell
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	07 Jan 2005 11:38:47 GMT

Chris Eckert wrote in news:3478miF45mfj1U1
@individual.net:

> (2)
> xpress 6x DOES NOT read xpress 4x documents
> at all. so we'll have to build up all documents
> from scratch again.
>
>

Your original question read "does 4.11 read 6.5? "

6.5 WILL read 4.11

Regards

Mike

From:	Chris Eckert
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:47:42 +0100

Mike Powell wrote:

> Your original question read "does 4.11 read 6.5? "
> 6.5 WILL read 4.11

uups, i'm sorry for that. i meant wether 6.5 reads 4.11.
so if 6.5 DOES READ 4.11 documents it'll be great help to us.

chris

From:	William F. Adams
Subject:	Re: merging to macosx (from macos9x) -- a few questions
Date:	07 Jan 2005 20:43:51 GMT

Chris asked:
>what alternatives for type reunion do
>you use under macosx?

There're some third-party hacks for this --- the name FontCard comes to mind.

For my part, I just use Cocoa apps insofar as possible.

Adobe apps use CoolType, so have a decent font menu.

William

--
William Adams
http://members.aol.com/willadams
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.