here is a link to an auction of what i think is a
bubble memory card for the apple // on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5155810138&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

i think? it is a fujitsu?(sp?) 128k model..the first type
made..bubble memory card...or at least i think that is the chip version
used..if it is the card i think it is
they were quite rare and went for like $850 new for a 128k stable (non-loss)
bubble memory card
also why i want instructions..whatever is on this beast in bubble
memory...is prob still there..assuming
i can bring the card up

so looking for people who have an english version of this beasts
instructions..heard of such a thing..seen one
your typical apple // ask for a unicorn sighting type of guestion we do on
here once in awhile......

i just have what is written on the box in japanese..and
it came with the only the pic and card pic you see in
the auction link above..the seller had no clue either...

the card is sealed with the same stickers you would see
for sealing a hard drive...it is completely encased with a metal case all
the way around it..
i don't really want to break the seals on it...

and of course the japanese (translations welcome) you see printed on the box
etc

anyway......any info or manuals for this would be welcome...and /or info on
these cards...what is interesting..is that if it truely is a bubble memory
card..whatever was on it (i hope install info ...likely also in japanese)
might still be on it ...anyway any info on if you too think this is a bubble
mem card..and or ideas of what slot to put it in (slot 7 like a hd? or slot
3 as a specialty card or other as a mem card?) makes a cool paper weight
(likely)

anyway any info welcome if there is an english version of a manual to this
beast i'd also be interested...so hopefully someone else on here has one of
these beasties

anyway....kinda neat looking in a very exotic mysterious kinda way ..but
would like to figure out how to get it working ..either by tracking down a
translation of the manual..someone else who has an english version of this
beast w/english instructions or anyone who may have tripped over an old ad
in an apple mag in the past or even tripped over such a beast before

thats basically how i got it...i'm pretty sure it is a bubble mem card..but
they are pretty exotic..so my mem might be playing tricks

anyway thanks...if nothing else it is an interesting if mysterious looking
card prob destined for paper weight status unless someone else out there has
one

brad
former sysop lost-gonzo.com

From:	David Chiu
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:35:27 -0800

No matter how I look at it, it looked remarkably like the "Chinese text
display card," not a "bubble memory" card.

"brad" wrote in message
news:10v171l2ka64u94@corp.supernews.com...
: here is a link to an auction of what i think is a
: bubble memory card for the apple // on ebay
:
:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5155810138&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

From:	brad
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:54:21 -0600

"David Chiu" wrote in message
news:csrp7q0s5p@news1.newsguy.com...
> No matter how I look at it, it looked remarkably like the "Chinese text
> display card," not a "bubble memory" card.
>
> "brad" wrote in message
> news:10v171l2ka64u94@corp.supernews.com...
> : here is a link to an auction of what i think is a
> : bubble memory card for the apple // on ebay
> :
> :
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5155810138&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT
>
>

the box is in japanese..or so it seemed to me..it may have been chinese...if
you download the .jpg from the ebay auction pic...and zoom in on it you prob
can read the chinese or japanese on the box...

so anyone with a friend or themselves that can translate it should be fairly
easy to tell from the ebay link pic i posted...of course it might just say
the same thing as the
part of the box in english "C-Plus ]["

the odd thing is...is that if it was a text screen card for chinese text
display card..why would it be sealed completely in metal like a hd case?
with hd type do not tamper seals...also in chinese or japanese....prob
could translate them too...seems like overkill for just a video card...

i suppose i'll have to break the seals (also made out of that aluminum tape
that people use on hds...so when i say cut it it more like saw)

if it was an ibm pc card i'd say it was one of those old ibm hard cards that
were enclosed in this manner..but this is way to old for that kinda stuff
right?..but the case setup looks a lot like those old ibm pc hardrive on a
card 10mb/20mb from back in the day...think they were called the hardcard 10
or hardcard 20?

my problem is i hate mysterious stuff i've been playing with this stuff
since my 1st apple2e in fall 1983...so i either have it, seen it, or have a
way to get it...
now finding the stuff i do have to put something together is a problem
....but then again if i don't mess with it i don't break it..i guess there is
that...i really
love rubber maid containers....leak proof...
anyway

the last thing i took a chance on buying was that apple //e that basically
all it said was it was and apple //e and a pic that had weird dials on
it..and was made by dapple systems...with a starting bid of 100 bucks..of
course i bought it .not sure but i don't think anyone else was nuts enough
too..can't remember....got lucky it was a //e loaded with modified dapple
accel card and other goodies ...i never saw before modified with dapple
stickers all over the eproms etc on the various reg cards inside...not sure
what they changed on it...wires jumping around motherboard...jeez...for
using a //e for dapple imaging of an electron microscope...with a mess of
other stuff...found an engineer for it said they went for between 10 and 20
grand and were considered a deal at that price...that was fun...

so.....anyway i'm about due to mess up and find a card..that prob 19 million
chinese people have as a clone for chinese text on an apple //..

last point is there some solvent or something (heck its metal casing not
like i'm gonna hurt anything) anyway a solvent so i can take off those
adhesive heavy aluminum wrap over the lid labels you see on hard drives..the
ones that say..."do not remove or void warrenty" etc..or at least that is
what i think they say
also in chinese or japanese on them too..

if such a solvent exists i could prob work them off and then bend them back
later..after peeking inside.....just seems dumb to ruin the seals if they
have lasted all these years..if i can cheat and put them back..

anyway if you have a link to chinese text video cards post it here...i could
use the info...prob not too many of them around either what the heck...

dang it i know i've seen this beast before though i remember the box design
and the case/card config..but i've no idea where i've seen it before...ebay
would be a much more fun place if they archived all there auctions for
ever....then at least a guy could look up some exotic stuff from days gone
by...

oh well..i'm easily entertained i guess...but frigging ebay is
dangerous...to the pocketbook

brad
former sysop lost-gonzo.com

From:	David C Chiu
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:41:03 -0800

> the box is in japanese..or so it seemed to me..it may have been
chinese...if
> you download the .jpg from the ebay auction pic...and zoom in on it you
prob
> can read the chinese or japanese on the box...

It's kanji text. The particular text in question is both Japan and
Taiwan/Hong Kong, so it's impossible to tell. But I don't recall ever seeing
a Japanese text display card, but I am absolutely certain Chinese display
card(s) exists.

> the odd thing is...is that if it was a text screen card for chinese text
> display card..why would it be sealed completely in metal like a hd case?
> with hd type do not tamper seals...also in chinese or japanese....prob
> could translate them too...seems like overkill for just a video card...

That tend to be more of a ... copy protection than shielding. During the
time when Apple II were popular in Taiwan, piracy were rampant. Even the
locally developed products were not immune.

[SNIP]

From:	Michael J. Mahon
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	22 Jan 2005 18:05:37 GMT

brad wrote:

>the odd thing is...is that if it was a text screen card for chinese text
>display card..why would it be sealed completely in metal like a hd case?
>with hd type do not tamper seals...also in chinese or japanese....prob
>could translate them too...seems like overkill for just a video card...

Remember that Asia was the rip-off capital of the world. Anyone
making something there that they wanted to "keep" would have
to resort to extreme measures to keep others from cloning it.

Potting all or part of a card was also a popular approach.

>last point is there some solvent or something (heck its metal casing not
>like i'm gonna hurt anything) anyway a solvent so i can take off those
>adhesive heavy aluminum wrap over the lid labels you see on hard drives..the
>ones that say..."do not remove or void warrenty" etc..or at least that is
>what i think they say
>also in chinese or japanese on them too..
>
>if such a solvent exists i could prob work them off and then bend them back
>later..after peeking inside.....just seems dumb to ruin the seals if they
>have lasted all these years..if i can cheat and put them back..

If you want it as a "collector's item", then don't take the seals off.

If you want to see inside, then either lift the seals with a knife or
just destroy them--they add nothing to the board's functionality. ;-)

>oh well..i'm easily entertained i guess...but frigging ebay is
>dangerous...to the pocketbook

Only if you believe the "description" created by someone who
clearly doesn't know what he has. ;-)

Sometimes poor descriptions create a buying opportunity for
the knowing buyer, but about as often they mislead.

-michael

New Applesoft BASIC interface for NadaNet networking!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

From:	brad
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:01:21 -0600

below is a translated link to a collector in japan who seems to have the
same bubble mem card i'm talking about in the prev post on this
discussion thread....

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.apple2world.jp/apple2/COL/MapItems/card/memory/bubblememory/bubblememory.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.apple2world.jp/apple2/COL/MapItems/card/memory/bubblememory/bubblememory.html%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D

above is a link...a translated page link..not sure if it works or not in
translation mode..the direct japanese link is below...of a collector in
japan who seems to have my card i mentioned in prev post..so a bit more info
for anyone interested in this discussion

so if the above translated to english link does not work here is the direct
japanese link below...you can use with google translate or bablefish
to get the same english translation yourself

http://www.apple2world.jp/apple2/COL/MapItems/card/memory/bubblememory/bubblememory.html

anyway..this looks like the card i mentioned in prev post..bubble
memcard...i have not broken the seals on my unit however..and removed the
cover..but my box
for this unit does have PC labled on it and his unit is named without the
lid as a peripherials corp bubble memory board...his has intel magnetics
1982

this is prob what i have...as stated in my prev post for a bubble memory
card....

anyway...still looking for english instructions if available or what do you
think just plug the beast in...the japanese link seems to suggest it has a
chip named bubdos ...perhaps..that is all i need?

anyway...just for those who might be interested here is another link to the
card and the such ..more or less looks like my card from what i can tell

the auction site with the card i have and the box is again at

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5155810138&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

anyway...;progress i guess...

thanks for the help

brad
former sysop lost-gonzo.com

From:	Michael J. Mahon
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	21 Jan 2005 09:45:28 GMT

brad wrote:

>below is a translated link to a collector in japan who seems to have the
>same bubble mem card i'm talking about in the prev post on this
>discussion thread....
>
>
>http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.apple2worl
d.jp/apple2/COL/MapItems/card/memory/bubblememory/bubblememory.html&prev=/
search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.apple2world.jp/apple2/COL/MapItems/card/memory/bub
blememory/bubblememory.html%
>26hl%3Den%26lr%3D

This is the MPC card, also known as the Helix Labs card, and it is
not the same card as the one shown in the auction. The "corner cut"
is different and the card edge connector has all its "pins".

The MPC/Helix card was made with the Intel bubble memory chip
and chip set.

>above is a link...a translated page link..not sure if it works or not in
>translation mode..the direct japanese link is below...of a collector in
>japan who seems to have my card i mentioned in prev post..so a bit more info
>for anyone interested in this discussion

It works.

>so if the above translated to english link does not work here is the direct
>japanese link below...you can use with google translate or bablefish
>to get the same english translation yourself
>
>
>http://www.apple2world.jp/apple2/COL/MapItems/card/memory/bubblememory/bu
bblememory.html
>
>anyway..this looks like the card i mentioned in prev post..bubble
>memcard...i have not broken the seals on my unit however..and removed the
>cover..but my box
>for this unit does have PC labled on it and his unit is named without the
>lid as a peripherials corp bubble memory board...his has intel magnetics
>1982
>
>this is prob what i have...as stated in my prev post for a bubble memory
>card....

If your card is a bubble memory card, then it almost certainly works
like a disk drive if you plug it in and do a "PR#s" on it. If it is not
bootable, then you should be able to boot a DOS disk and then
CATALOG the bubble drive.

Bubble cards are pretty heavy, because of the iron and magnets
associated with the bubble chip.

>anyway...still looking for english instructions if available or what do you
>think just plug the beast in...the japanese link seems to suggest it has a
>chip named bubdos ...perhaps..that is all i need?

That is true for the MPC/Helix card--maybe yours is a clone?...

>anyway...just for those who might be interested here is another link to the
>card and the such ..more or less looks like my card from what i can tell

Again, the cards do not look identical either in shape or pinout. That does
not rule out that one is an electronic clone of the other, or that they are
different designs, but it does raise doubts.

>the auction site with the card i have and the box is again at
>
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5155810138&ssPage
Name=STRK:MEWN:IT

Try it out in a system and see if you can CATALOG it--if it doesn't work, no
harm has been done, and if something exotic on the card has failed, you
will probably have to consider it a writeoff anyway, since those chips are
now made of unobtanium. ;-)

-michael

New Applesoft BASIC interface for NadaNet networking!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

From:	Eric Smith
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	22 Jan 2005 15:29:19 -0800

mjmahon@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon) writes:
> If your card is a bubble memory card, then it almost certainly works
> like a disk drive if you plug it in and do a "PR#s" on it. If it is not
> bootable, then you should be able to boot a DOS disk and then
> CATALOG the bubble drive.

How would DOS know how to talk to the card? You'd have to have a RWTS
patch.

From:	Michael J. Mahon
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	23 Jan 2005 08:08:08 GMT

Eric Smith replied:

>mjmahon@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon) writes:
>> If your card is a bubble memory card, then it almost certainly works
>> like a disk drive if you plug it in and do a "PR#s" on it. If it is not
>> bootable, then you should be able to boot a DOS disk and then
>> CATALOG the bubble drive.
>
>How would DOS know how to talk to the card? You'd have to have a RWTS
>patch.

Good point. The bubble memory card had to be booted (or another
disk with the patched RWTS booted).

When I was playing with mine, I frequently booted from another disk
with the patch, which had slipped my mind.

-michael

New Applesoft BASIC interface for NadaNet networking!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

From:	brad
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:47:16 -0600

someone told me there were some programs at the time database? not sure what
they were that did find the bubble memory card...not sure if that would get
around the patch issue?

prob not
brad

"Michael J. Mahon" wrote in message
news:20050123030808.15072.00000183@mb-m21.aol.com...
> Eric Smith replied:
>
> >mjmahon@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon) writes:
> >> If your card is a bubble memory card, then it almost certainly works
> >> like a disk drive if you plug it in and do a "PR#s" on it. If it is
not
> >> bootable, then you should be able to boot a DOS disk and then
> >> CATALOG the bubble drive.
> >
> >How would DOS know how to talk to the card? You'd have to have a RWTS
> >patch.
>
> Good point. The bubble memory card had to be booted (or another
> disk with the patched RWTS booted).
>
> When I was playing with mine, I frequently booted from another disk
> with the patch, which had slipped my mind.
>
> -michael
>
> New Applesoft BASIC interface for NadaNet networking!
> Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

From:	brad
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:55:46 -0600

"Michael J. Mahon" wrote in message
news:20050121044528.16751.00000119@mb-m16.aol.com...
> brad wrote:
>
> >below is a translated link to a collector in japan who seems to have the
> >same bubble mem card i'm talking about in the prev post on this
> >discussion thread....
> >
> >
> >http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.apple2worl
> d.jp/apple2/COL/MapItems/card/memory/bubblememory/bubblememory.html&prev=/
> search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.apple2world.jp/apple2/COL/MapItems/card/memory/bub
> blememory/bubblememory.html%
> >26hl%3Den%26lr%3D
>
> This is the MPC card, also known as the Helix Labs card, and it is
> not the same card as the one shown in the auction. The "corner cut"
> is different and the card edge connector has all its "pins".
>
> The MPC/Helix card was made with the Intel bubble memory chip
> and chip set.
>
> >above is a link...a translated page link..not sure if it works or not in
> >translation mode..the direct japanese link is below...of a collector in
> >japan who seems to have my card i mentioned in prev post..so a bit more
info
> >for anyone interested in this discussion
>
> It works.
>
> >so if the above translated to english link does not work here is the
direct
> >japanese link below...you can use with google translate or bablefish
> >to get the same english translation yourself
> >
> >
> >http://www.apple2world.jp/apple2/COL/MapItems/card/memory/bubblememory/bu
> bblememory.html
> >
> >anyway..this looks like the card i mentioned in prev post..bubble
> >memcard...i have not broken the seals on my unit however..and removed the
> >cover..but my box
> >for this unit does have PC labled on it and his unit is named without the
> >lid as a peripherials corp bubble memory board...his has intel magnetics
> >1982
> >
> >this is prob what i have...as stated in my prev post for a bubble memory
> >card....
>
> If your card is a bubble memory card, then it almost certainly works
> like a disk drive if you plug it in and do a "PR#s" on it. If it is not
> bootable, then you should be able to boot a DOS disk and then
> CATALOG the bubble drive.
>
> Bubble cards are pretty heavy, because of the iron and magnets
> associated with the bubble chip.
>
> >anyway...still looking for english instructions if available or what do
you
> >think just plug the beast in...the japanese link seems to suggest it has
a
> >chip named bubdos ...perhaps..that is all i need?
>
> That is true for the MPC/Helix card--maybe yours is a clone?...
>
> >anyway...just for those who might be interested here is another link to
the
> >card and the such ..more or less looks like my card from what i can tell
>
> Again, the cards do not look identical either in shape or pinout. That
does
> not rule out that one is an electronic clone of the other, or that they
are
> different designs, but it does raise doubts.
>
> >the auction site with the card i have and the box is again at
> >
> >
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5155810138&ssPage
> Name=STRK:MEWN:IT
>
> Try it out in a system and see if you can CATALOG it--if it doesn't work,
no
> harm has been done, and if something exotic on the card has failed, you
> will probably have to consider it a writeoff anyway, since those chips are
> now made of unobtanium. ;-)
>
> -michael
>
> New Applesoft BASIC interface for NadaNet networking!
> Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

not sure about the card i have one thing for sure though..i've never seen a
card with 1/16 inch or so sheet metal around it..it has the same thickness
as the top of a ide internal hardrive looks like same thickness of the cast
iron metal...

still tempted to mess with the labels to open it (also sealed like a hd)

i did not know they made a civil war iron clad version of an apple // card

anyway ..i'll see what other info floats in...and muck with it like you
suggested

brad
former sysop lost-gonzo.com

also on the card it says it is a plus & plus card..in case that is any help

anyway....life's little mysteries

although i did see some bubble memory chips for sale that fit the japanese
guys card....when i was looking around at this stuff...so that also was odd

brad
former sysop lost-gonzo.com

From:	Scott Alfter
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:39:50 GMT

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In article <10v1k7igr5h99e@corp.supernews.com>,
brad wrote:
>not sure about the card i have one thing for sure though..i've never seen a
>card with 1/16 inch or so sheet metal around it..it has the same thickness
>as the top of a ide internal hardrive looks like same thickness of the cast
>iron metal...

Expansion cards for the TI-99/4A were freqently mounted in a cast-aluminum
housing (IIRC) that slid into that machine's expansion chassis. I've never
heard of putting an Apple II expansion card in a metal box, but I suppose
there's a first time for everything. :-)

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( http://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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=7BZA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From:	Michael J. Mahon
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	21 Jan 2005 19:52:18 GMT

Scott Alfter wrote:

>Expansion cards for the TI-99/4A were freqently mounted in a cast-aluminum
>housing (IIRC) that slid into that machine's expansion chassis. I've never
>heard of putting an Apple II expansion card in a metal box, but I suppose
>there's a first time for everything. :-)

There were at least a few Apple II expansion cards that were enclosed
in metal. The aScope, an oscilloscope card, comes immediately to mind.

Shielding, of either sensitive internal circuitry or possibly radiating
high frequency circuits, seems to be the usual motivation.

-michael

New Applesoft BASIC interface for NadaNet networking!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

From:	Sean Fahey
Subject:	Re: c-plus ][ bubble memory card...japanese..
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:11:01 GMT

"brad" wrote in message
news:10v171l2ka64u94@corp.supernews.com...

> here is a link to an auction of what i think is a
> bubble memory card for the apple // on ebay
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5155810138&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

Cool card Brad - those were expensive back in the day. I recall the industry
experts thinking bubble memory was the wave of the future - then the bubble
"burst".

The shielding is to protect the bubble memory from foreign magnetic fields.