I have a Commodore 64 and a 1702 screen and want to add some drives.
The 1541's with rotating lever would "match" the lot nicely, but would
I get benefit out of 1571's? Can the C64 use the "Burst" mode of the
1571 or was that C128 only?

What should I consider here? Thanks. (Want to hit eBay soon to
procure them, so anything you got for opinions here would be super.)
bp

From:	Marc Nause
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:28:24 +0100

Blake Patterson wrote:

> I have a Commodore 64 and a 1702 screen and want to add some drives.
> The 1541's with rotating lever would "match" the lot nicely, but would
> I get benefit out of 1571's? Can the C64 use the "Burst" mode of the
> 1571 or was that C128 only?

With a modified C64 you can use some of the advantages of the 1571. The
following discussion might be of interest to you:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?U5DE3164A

original link:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.sys.cbm/browse_frm/thread/f3dd32e8506e6ba0/a63fc4903c44056f

HTH

Marc

--
http://low.audioattack.de

From:	Martin Brunner
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:48:22 +0100

Marc Nause schrieb:

>With a modified C64 you can use some of the advantages of the 1571. The
>following discussion might be of interest to you:
>
>http://makeashorterlink.com/?U5DE3164A

Sounts interesting. But does it mean that would also speed up games
which need long to load everything and keep the 1541 compatibility or
would this only be useful for programs you write yourself?

From:	Marc Nause
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:28:47 +0100

Martin Brunner wrote:

> Sounts interesting. But does it mean that would also speed up games
> which need long to load everything and keep the 1541 compatibility or
> would this only be useful for programs you write yourself?

I guess as long as the games use the kernal routines for loading and
saving, there should be no problem. The program printed in "Das große
Floppybuch zur C1570/71" seems to more or less replace the original
routines. I'm not sure what happens if programs use their own routines
to load/save like Turrican and Turrican 2 do for example. I have never
tried using my 1571 in 1571-mode so all this is, is an educated guess.

Marc

--
http://low.audioattack.de

From:	r_u_sure at mybluelight.com
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	19 Jan 2005 20:12:54 -0800

r_u_s...@mybluelight.com wrote:
> You can contact me on COMP.SYS.CBM or as follows:
>
> EMAIL : r_u_sure@mybluelight.com

GOOGLE seems to modify the text of my
EMAIL address when I post to news groups.
Please send your private response to:

are (letter R) underscore you (letter u)
underscore sure (word sure) at mybluelight.com.
There are no spaces and in my address. The
alphabetic text of my address is lower case.

I hope those needing to respond are able
to convert this to the form acceptable
for the INTERNET message system.

From:	r_u_sure at mybluelight.com
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	21 Jan 2005 10:15:44 -0800

Leif Bloomquist wrote:
> I have a 1571, and found the second side to be totally
> useless except in GEOS. I have no idea how to even
> access the other side. Right now I have the 1571 hooked
> up to my PC to use with cbm4win, as it matches the PC :-)

I don't use either GEOS or a Commodore
emulator so this may be completely wrong.

When hooked up to a stock C64 and while depressing the C= key when
a C128 powers up, a 1571 boots up in single sided (35 track format)
mode. I suspect that C64 emulators may place 6he 1571 in single
sided mode as well. Since it's a newer operating system, GEOS may
have a different philosphy and put a 1571 in full doulble sided
mode and disks have 70 track formats. To place a 1571 in '71 mode,
issue a command 'u0>m1' command to the drive's command channel.
To change from double to single sided mode, issue a 'u0>m0' command

In single sided mode, a 1571 drive should be compatible with 1541
software, but there are programming techniques for determining whether
or not the drive is a 1541. Thats probably what my archaic disk
archivers are doing when they reject my 1571 drive. If the archiver
programmer had given the user the option to continue processing even
with a non 1541 drive, an archive attempt would most certainly be
successful. Since I am making up this language as I write this, 1571
drives in single sided mode do have access to the second flop side of
a disk, unlike 1541s. While in single sided mode, issue the drive
command 'u0>h1' to access the disk's flop side. I occasionally get
a drive diagnostic for an unmatching disk 'ID' error when accessing
a disk's flop side. I haven't tested this, but flop side and
primary side disk IDs may need to match. Issue either a 'u0>m0'
or a 'u0>h0' command to return to the disk's primary single side.

From:	r_u_sure at mybluelight.com
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 18:50:53 -0800

Martin Brunner wrote:
> Riccardo Rubini schrieb:
>
> > You might get into some compatibility
> issues you'd want to avoid.
>
> I can't remember that I ever had some compatibility
> problems with the 1571. Which games make problems with that?

You may want to look at a few messages in this thread beginning
with my message on the 20th after 5pm (pacific time?). I have
difficulty using 1571s with some early disk archivers, and Mr.
Hunter has had problems with one or two of the SPY vs SPY games.

From:	r_u_sure at mybluelight.com
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 13:04:46 -0800

Blake Patterson wrote:
> would I get benefit out of 1571's? Can the C64 use
> the "Burst" mode of the 1571 or was that C128 only?

One additional item about 1571s. Be certain that you get a drive
with either a Commodore upgrade or a JIFFYDos ROM. Writing to
the additional data storage with the original ROM is PAINFUL.
C128s experience other problems with 1571s equipped with the
original ROM. If you acquire a 1571 with an original ROM, and
you can't find a Commodore upgrade or a JIFFYDos ROM, you can
burn a ROM from the ROM image that you can download from here:
:
http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/firmware/drives/new/1571/

From:	Curtis F Kaylor
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:25:32 GMT

Blake Patterson wrote:
> I have a Commodore 64 and a 1702 screen and want to add some drives.
> The 1541's with rotating lever would "match" the lot nicely, but would
> I get benefit out of 1571's? Can the C64 use the "Burst" mode of the
> 1571 or was that C128 only?
>
> What should I consider here? Thanks. (Want to hit eBay soon to
> procure them, so anything you got for opinions here would be super.)
> bp
>
The 64 does not support BURST mode. But it will support the double sided
mode of the 1571 which has double the capacity of a 1541 single sided
disk. Few disks are formatted that way though. Another advantage of
the 1571 is that with the right software it will read and write IBM
formatted 360k disks.

However for normal usage, 1541's will do fine. I would suggest two
1541's and a 1571.

-Curtis

From:	r_u_sure at mybluelight.com
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	19 Jan 2005 16:07:46 -0800

Blake Patterson wrote:
> I have a Commodore 64 and a 1702 screen and want to add some
> drives. The 1541's with rotating lever would "match" the
> lot nicely, but would I get benefit out of 1571's? Can the
> C64 use the "Burst" mode of the 1571 or was that C128 only?
>
> What should I consider here? Thanks. (Want
> to hit eBay soon to procure them, so anything
> you got for opinions here would be super.)
> bp

Although 1571s have more resources to offer even
with C64s, some older commercial software are
compatible only with 1541s. If you will have
only one drive, then get a 1541 and live with its
limitations. You may want to consider a 1541 II
because it is more flexible than earlier 1541s. If
you will have 2 or 3 disk drives, make the second
drive acquisition, a 1571 and the 3rd, a 1581. After
that, keep an eye out for a CMD or a LT KERNAL hard
drive, or a RAMLink. You may want to upgrade your
early 1541 or 1571 with one of my IFFYDos chips for
each drive. I even have a JIFFYDos chip for a C64C.
You can contact me on COMP.SYS.CBM or as follows:

EMAIL : r_u_sure@mybluelight.com
REGULAR ADDRESS : Paul Rosenzweig
413 1/2 East Mulberry Street
Fort Collins, Colorado 80524
USA

From:	Robert Bernardo
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:43:31 -0500

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Riccardo Rubini wrote:

> The 1571 won't give you any benefit worth a mention, coupled with an
> unmodified C64. You might get into some compatibility issues you'd want to
> avoid. On the other hand, if you plan to upgrade your setup buying a C128, a
> 1571 is the next thing you should get.

I prefer the 1571, even with C64's. The 1571 has a rock-steady
drive motor speed, runs cooler, and seems more resistant to going
out-of-alignment (thus making it more durable). As mentioned before, the
right C64 cart/software can access the second side of a double-sided disk.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

From:	Riccardo Rubini
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:57:45 GMT

Robert Bernardo wrote:

> I prefer the 1571, even with C64's. The 1571 has a rock-steady
> drive motor speed, runs cooler, and seems more resistant to going
> out-of-alignment (thus making it more durable).

The 1571 isn't more durable going out-of-alignment, simply the alignment
reset procedure on 1541 drives, by bumping the head against the headstop,
has been superseded by an optical sensor for track 0. It isn't only a
feature of the 1571, it's in the 1541-II too - and in some short-board 1541C
models as well, although IIRC it is factory turned off, and you need to
upgrade the software and move a jumper to use it.

> As mentioned before, the right C64 cart/software can access the second
> side of a
> double-sided disk.

Yep, but there is really no big use of this feature. Just flip the floppy
:-)

Riccardo

From:	silverdr
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:36:42 +0100

Riccardo Rubini wrote:

>>As mentioned before, the right C64 cart/software can access the second
>>side of a
>>double-sided disk.
>
>
> Yep, but there is really no big use of this feature. Just flip the floppy
> :-)
>

Uh, oh... in the middle of reading my favorite SID tune converted into
..MP3?? :-)

From:	Riccardo Rubini
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:40:23 GMT

silverdr wrote:

>> Yep, but there is really no big use of this feature. Just flip the
>> floppy :-)
>>
>
> Uh, oh... in the middle of reading my favorite SID tune converted into
> .MP3?? :-)

Why, buddy? What's wrong ? Tell me :-)

Tell me also which is your favourite SID tune, while you're at it ! :-)

Riccardo

From:	silverdr
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 03:06:31 +0100

Riccardo Rubini wrote:
> silverdr wrote:
>=20
>=20
>>>Yep, but there is really no big use of this feature. Just flip the
>>>floppy :-)
>>>
>>
>>Uh, oh... in the middle of reading my favorite SID tune converted into
>>.MP3?? :-)
>=20
>=20
> Why, buddy? What's wrong ? Tell me :-)

The MP3 is 1143 blocks long :-D

>=20
> Tell me also which is your favourite SID tune, while you're at it ! :-)=

>=20

Oh, there is a number of my favs. You probably don't know at least half=20
of my top 20 as they were never published. Unless they leaked somewhere=20
out from my diskettes (or the author's ones) - they are possbily unknown =

to the public.

From the more known ones I loved e.g. the Hawkeye game music by Jeroen=20
Tel, the "Smooth Criminal" remake as heard in a short yet beautiful demo =

of the late eighties. It was better than original to me ;-) Many other=20
from The Maniacs Of Noise, 20CC, Rob Hubbard, Chris H=FClsbeck, David=20
Whittaker, Ben Daglish, Martin Galway, Tony Crowther, the early Synth=20
Samples (Hubbard was it?), Druid II, eh... too many of those beautiful=20
noisy noises, which nobody even understands as music these days ;-)

From:	Leif Bloomquist
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:02:45 -0500

I have a 1571, and found the second side to be totally useless except in
GEOS. I have no idea how to even access the other side. Right now I have
the 1571 hooked up to my PC to use with cbm4win, as it matches the PC :-)

-Leif

From:	Christian Johansson
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:48:49 GMT

Leif Bloomquist skrev:
> I have a 1571, and found the second side to be totally useless except in
> GEOS. I have no idea how to even access the other side. Right now I have
> the 1571 hooked up to my PC to use with cbm4win, as it matches the PC :-)
>
> -Leif
>
>
Just after having inserted a disk that you want to format as
double-sided or a disk that you have previously formatted as
double-sided, do the following:

OPEN1,8,15,"U0>M1":CLOSE1

Voila, now you can use both sides without having to flip the disk. Just
look how many free bytes there are when you read the directory.

/Christian

From:	silverdr
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 02:44:51 +0100

Leif Bloomquist wrote:
> I have a 1571, and found the second side to be totally useless except in
> GEOS. I have no idea how to even access the other side.

Wasn't it as simple as placing it in the 1571 mode by a U0 command and
using 1328 BLOCKS FREE from both sides to store your files?

> Right now I have
> the 1571 hooked up to my PC to use with cbm4win, as it matches the PC :-)

:-)

From:	r_u_sure at mybluelight.com
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	20 Jan 2005 19:51:45 -0800

Robert Bernardo wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Riccardo Rubini wrote:
>
> As mentioned before, the right C64 cart/software
> can access the second side of a double-sided disk.

Thats no big deal if the disk is in a 1571. Just issue a command
to the drive's command channel putting the drive in 1571 mode.
There is even a way to put a second directory on a disk's flop
(I'm making the language up as I write this message) side without
removing the disk. Commands for using all the 1571's data capacity
can be issued just as easily on a C64 as well as on a C128. Accesing
data on the second side of a full 1571 disk and in the flop partition
using a 1541 would be QUITE a trick, and probably impossible,
even on a C128. All the data on flippy disks are accessable
with either 1541 or 1571 drives connected to C84s or C128s.

From:	Riccardo Rubini
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:46:24 GMT

Blake Patterson wrote:
> I have a Commodore 64 and a 1702 screen and want to add some drives.
> The 1541's with rotating lever would "match" the lot nicely, but would
> I get benefit out of 1571's? Can the C64 use the "Burst" mode of the
> 1571 or was that C128 only?

I suggest you to get a 1541, either with the rotating lever ( Newtronics
mechanism ), or with the push-down door ( ALPS mechanism ). You can look
around for a 1541-II as well, if the colour matching factor isn't mandatory.
The 1541-II has an external power supply, I have had heat problems with 1541
models, getting completely disfunctional due to excessive temperature.

The 1571 won't give you any benefit worth a mention, coupled with an
unmodified C64. You might get into some compatibility issues you'd want to
avoid. On the other hand, if you plan to upgrade your setup buying a C128, a
1571 is the next thing you should get.

Riccardo

From:	Martin Brunner
Subject:	Re: 1541 or 1571?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:59:26 +0100

Riccardo Rubini schrieb:

> You might get into some compatibility issues you'd want to=20
>avoid.

I can't remember that I ever had some compatibility problems with the
1571. Which games make problems with that?