This is an update concerning my problems with Centsisoft AKA
Centsible Software.

On December 12th, 2004, I won eBay auction 5145817402, "Commodore
Shopping Spree." from eBay user "centsisoft". You can view it at
[ http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5145817402 ].

I got an invoice that said the following:

|
| Congratulations on winning our shopping spree. As the shopping
| sprees work somewhat different than a normal auction, the process
| on them is also a little different. Upon receipt of your payment,
| we will email you with complete instruction on how to claim the
| $100.00 worth of software.
|
| We thank you for bidding on our auctiona and hope to hear from
| you soon. -Bill Griffin, Centsible Software, wd8izh@locallink.net
|

I paid in full the next morning (the 13th) at 7AM. I went to the
website [ http://www.centsible.com/ ] looking to see if there was
a way to put in the order at the price I paid, but the website
wouldn't accept an order unless I paid four times the price plus
shipping. Fine, I thought, I will just wait for this "email with
complete instructions."

A week went by with no email. I checked my spam folder - no luck.
So I sent a gentle reminder, saying:

|
|Dear centsisoft,
|
|I am the winner of Commodore Shopping Spree (5145817402)
|How do I place my order?
|

No reply.

After another week or so I tried again.

No reply.

On January 5th, 2005, I sent a bunch of copies to every email
address that I could associate with the seller, sending each
from two different ISPs.

No reply.

On January 10th, I got a series of emails (I guess he finally
checked all his mailboxes) all saying:

|
| My apologies for not getting things out for your orders
| and/or auctions. I have been sick.
|
| Just before the new year, I caught a cold. last tuesday
| afternoon, the cold turned rather vicious. it settled into
| my left ear, my sinuses, my throat and my chest. My doctor
| has me on antibiotics (he says primarily for strept throat).
| But for the better part of a week, about all I had the
| strength to do was go from the bed to the bathroom and back.
|
| I am better now (although the hearing in my left ear is
| still a little fuzzy). Now I just have to play "catch-up"
| for the next several days. Again, I apologize for this. I
| will try to get everyones auctiona and orders out as quickly
| as possible. I thank you all for your patience.
|
| BTW, I sent you the instructions for the shopping spree the
| same day I received notice of payment. I also sent tham the
| same day I got your first note on the matter.
|
| I will be working up your order this week and will let you
| know what of the FCFS items I still have in stock. If I do
| not have all of it, I will notify you so you can make
| alternate selections.
|
| Bill Griffin
|
| Centsible Software
|

FINALLY, an answer by a human! The "I sent you the instructions"
bit worried me, though. I checked again - no such instructions
were sent. Oh well, I thought, I will just ask him to send them
again.

He refused, claiming once again that he had already sent them.

I wrote back saying:

|
| I received no such instructions.
|
| What I received was:
|
| "Congratulations on winning our shopping spree.
| As the shopping sprees work somewhat different
| than a normal auction, the process on them is
| also a little different. Upon receipt of your
| payment, we will email you with complete
| instruction on how to claim the $100.00
| worth of software."
|
| I am puzzled as to why you failed to simply cut and paste
| the instructions into either your "I will send you the
| instructions" email or one of your "I already sent you
| the instructions" emails.
|

Now he started writing back with "I cut and pasted the
instructions my previous email" assertions. Once again I
checked every email, including everything in my spam folder,
and found no instructions. His emails just got more and
more nasty.

So I turned things over to eBay/PayPal fraud investigation.
Here is the reply:

|
| Dear Guy Macon,
|
| PayPal has concluded our investigation of your Buyer Complaint.
|
| ------------------------------
| Complaint Details
| ------------------------------
|
| Transaction Date: Dec. 13, 2004
| Transaction Amount: -$25.00 USD
| Case Number: PP-063-778-944
| Seller's Name: William Griffin
| Seller's Email: wd8izh@locallink.net
|
| You have received a refund via PayPal in the amount of $25.00 USD.
|
| Any portion of your original payment that was funded with your credit card
| has been refunded directly to that credit card. The credit to your credit
| card should take 2-3 business days to post, and may not immediately
| reflected in your card balance.
|
| Sincerely,
| Protection Services Department
|

At this point I was planning on leaving neutral eBay feedback, giving
him the benefit of the doubt. Then I saw that he had left me negative
feedback, even though I paid promptly and tried to resolve the problems
for well over a month, filing the fraud complaint only after he refused
to deliver and refused to give me a refund. I gave him every opportunity
to resolve this, either by delivering the item or by refunding my payment.
I was quite reluctant to tarnish his reputation - there are so few
Commodore vendors left - but giving me a negative was the last straw;
I fulfilled my obligation when I paid him. Now he has another negative
feedback, a feedback score of 97.2% (199), with 6 negatives and 5 neutrals
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=centsisoft
and leaving me with a feedback score of 99.2% (3 negative, no neutral)
on my buyer account and 100% positive on my seller account. IOW, he
shot himself in the foot without hurting me at all.

I strongly advise avoiding this seller. :(

From:	Jeff Toy
Subject:	Re: Centsisoft / Centsible Software update
Date:	21 Jan 2005 17:37:18 -0800

Jeez, has Centsible Software always been this bad or did it just get
this way in recent times?? I was always thinking of ordering some
stuff from them but after reading this thread, I think I'll take my
business elsewhere.

From:	Riccardo Rubini
Subject:	Re: Centsisoft / Centsible Software update
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:44:05 GMT

Jeff Toy wrote:
> Jeez, has Centsible Software always been this bad or did it just get
> this way in recent times?? I was always thinking of ordering some
> stuff from them but after reading this thread, I think I'll take my
> business elsewhere.

Before Bill Griffin bought Centsible, Scott Parker was at the helm of
Centsible. Scott used to hang out in here, I have heard some complaints
about him, but never on the likes of the recent ones against Bill.

Bill doesn't seem a bad guy, I suppose Centsible isn't his only business, so
probably he has to accomodate a few other things. However, you can't ignore
customers' emails, phone calls or make a customer feel as Guy did. It's just
not the way to properly run any kind of business, no excuses for that.

Riccardo

From:	jhdf
Subject:	Re: Centsisoft / Centsible Software update
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 23:34:13 -0500

Ill or not Ill its a business. This community needs respectable vendors! If
a person that is running the show falls ill then its time to take the site
off the air and post a message. Or at least have a backup, there is no
excuse for lazy business practices. For an example, check out commodore
business machines. This company should/could have been #1. Sorry for going
OT.

Anyway, no matter who it is, on ebay a bad deal is a bad deal and deserves
the result of it. People have responsibilities and are supposed to have
insurances for problems, if they do not - they have no business running a
business.

Good luck to the original poster.

Cyberjank

"Riccardo Rubini" wrote in message
news:FdiId.437478$b5.21004959@news3.tin.it...
> Jeff Toy wrote:
>> Jeez, has Centsible Software always been this bad or did it just get
>> this way in recent times?? I was always thinking of ordering some
>> stuff from them but after reading this thread, I think I'll take my
>> business elsewhere.
>
> Before Bill Griffin bought Centsible, Scott Parker was at the helm of
> Centsible. Scott used to hang out in here, I have heard some complaints
> about him, but never on the likes of the recent ones against Bill.
>
> Bill doesn't seem a bad guy, I suppose Centsible isn't his only business,
> so probably he has to accomodate a few other things. However, you can't
> ignore customers' emails, phone calls or make a customer feel as Guy did.
> It's just not the way to properly run any kind of business, no excuses for
> that.
>
> Riccardo
>
>
>

From:	Guy Macon
Subject:	Re: Centsisoft / Centsible Software update
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:36:32 +0000

Jeff Toy wrote:

>Jeez, has Centsible Software always been this bad or did it just get
>this way in recent times?? I was always thinking of ordering some
>stuff from them but after reading this thread, I think I'll take my
>business elsewhere.

Let's look at the record.

On eBay a rating of 99% or higher is considered good. Everyone who
does business ends up with a small amount of unhappy customers, and
on eBay it's usually less than one out of a hundred.

Centsible Software has had 207 ebay customers who left positive
feedback. With that many sales, I would expect 1 or 2 negative
feedbacks, and 0 or 1 neutral feedbacks. Centsible has 6 negatives
and 6 neutrals. So 16 out of 17 people who dealt with them were
happy, and 1 out of 17 were not. Do you like those odds?

By contrast, I have 356 positive feedbacks, 3 negatives, and
0 neutrals. On of my negatives I deserved; I Paid with PayPal,
but the description clearly stated that he doesn't accept PayPal.
Another negative was from a seller who gave me a neg for non
payment without bothering to check and see that I had already
paid. The third is from Centsible Software, retaliating because
eBay/PayPal did a fraud investigation and ruled in my favor.
So 118 out of 119 people who dealt with me were happy, and 1
out of 119 were not. Fairly typical for an eBay user.

Here are some of the comment in the Centsisoft / Centsible
Software feedback record:

"Refused to deliver; I gave him a month+ eBay/PayPal fraud
investigation in my favor (they forced him to give full refund). :("

"BEWARE-DEADBEAT SELLER-Got money, no shipment, no email
response AVOID"

"Had to call numerous times. Very poor customer service.
Still owes me $10.00"

"Poor communications. Never got everything I was supposed
to. AVOID!!!"

"No response to queries, missing and broken merchandise,
means Never Buy Again!"

"Sellers beware, HE CANNOT BE SATISFIED. Tried to get us
to give him more then what was listed."

"Very slow start, eventually came through after several reminder
emails"

"A mix-up caused over a month's time to pass before item was
shipped."

"I expected the item to be the one as pictured in the ad
(not a rusty hulk!)"

"Missing chips which were shown in ad picture and broken chips
from poor packing."

"Avoid: did not ship what you see, Buy MB receive no chip on it,
DID not tell about"

On the other hand, there are over 200 people who apparantly
had no trouble at all.

From:	Jerry Kurtz
Subject:	Re: Centsisoft / Centsible Software update
Date:	20 Jan 2005 18:28:45 -0800

I've had a mixed set of success with him. Sometimes, he's right on top
of things, and other times, he's not.
I sincerely hope he turns things around.

From:	Guy Macon
Subject:	Re: Centsisoft / Centsible Software update
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:57:45 +0000

Jerry Kurtz wrote:

>I've had a mixed set of success with him. Sometimes, he's right on top
>of things, and other times, he's not.
>I sincerely hope he turns things around.

I do too. I really agonized over filing the eBay fraud report
on him over a $25 payment. It is likely that I would have written
it off, but then he became insulting and aggressive. It's a shame;
the Commodore community needs more vendors.

From:	Riccardo Rubini
Subject:	Re: Centsisoft / Centsible Software update
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:41:14 GMT

Guy Macon wrote:
> Jerry Kurtz wrote:
>
>> I've had a mixed set of success with him. Sometimes, he's right on
>> top of things, and other times, he's not.
>> I sincerely hope he turns things around.
>
> I do too. I really agonized over filing the eBay fraud report
> on him over a $25 payment. It is likely that I would have written
> it off, but then he became insulting and aggressive. It's a shame;
> the Commodore community needs more vendors.

Guy, from your words I understand you almost feel guilty for filing that
fraud report. Well, don't. You had no idea he was ill when you did that and,
however, his homepage claims Centsible isn't a one-man company, but has
employees. If you fall ill,your employees should take care of the business
or, at least, send a reassuring note to buyers explaining their problems. It
doesn't take much.

Riccardo

From:	Guy Macon
Subject:	Re: Centsisoft / Centsible Software update
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:46:24 +0000

Riccardo Rubini wrote:
>
>Guy Macon wrote:
>
>> Jerry Kurtz wrote:
>>
>>> I've had a mixed set of success with him. Sometimes, he's right on
>>> top of things, and other times, he's not.
>>> I sincerely hope he turns things around.
>>
>> I do too. I really agonized over filing the eBay fraud report
>> on him over a $25 payment. It is likely that I would have written
>> it off, but then he became insulting and aggressive. It's a shame;
>> the Commodore community needs more vendors.
>
>Guy, from your words I understand you almost feel guilty for filing that
>fraud report. Well, don't. You had no idea he was ill when you did that and,
>however, his homepage claims Centsible isn't a one-man company, but has
>employees. If you fall ill,your employees should take care of the business
>or, at least, send a reassuring note to buyers explaining their problems. It
>doesn't take much.

Thanks. I *was* feeling a bit conflicted. Then again, I paid on
the 12th and he didn't get sick until the 30th, so he had plenty
of time to at least anwser on of my emails. When you get no response
after paying, you start to feel as if somone is trying to cheat you.
I just want to be the kind of person who does the right thing.

From:	Yves
Subject:	Re: Centsisoft / Centsible Software update
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:29:47 +0100

I Bought from him a 1581 Service manual and received
something else: a Diagnostic manual...
I tried to arrange things, but...
First, the guy did not answer emails
then told me to send back the diagnostic manual and another xx $
for the shipping costs (! I would have sent back the manual, but paying
twice the shipping for a mistake I did'nt do....) then he told me the
company centsiblesoftware had been sold to somebody else.

I short: don't buy from him.

Yves

From:	jcnews
Subject:	Re: Centsisoft / Centsible Software update
Date:	23 Jan 2005 02:52:47 -0800

Guy Macon wrote:

> Thanks. I *was* feeling a bit conflicted. Then again, I paid on
> the 12th and he didn't get sick until the 30th, so he had plenty
> of time to at least anwser on of my emails. When you get no response

> after paying, you start to feel as if somone is trying to cheat you.
> I just want to be the kind of person who does the right thing.

You made the right call, Guy. After the passage of a month's time,
three e-mails, and a phone call, I initiated a PayPal investigation,
too. It was only then that I received my eBay winnings (Amiga 520 RF
modulator).

If you're a one-man-show on a budget, pay a kid in parts and pizza to
lend a hand.

Joe C.