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 | | From: | Allan Adler | | Subject: | Frogs | | Date: | 03 Jan 2005 12:26:35 -0500 |
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I'm about 1/4 of the way through Aristophanes' Frogs in Greek, Loeb Classical
edition. Dionysios has just received a sponge from Xanthias to wipe his
takapouli, saying he needed it for his "kardian", which primarily means
"heart" but also, apparently, "stomach", which might included bowels.
At any rate, this is the only time I've read anything about what the
ancient Greeks used for toilet paper. Were sponges the rule or the
exception? When sponges were used, were they discarded or were they
cleaned and reused, both by the owner and by his guests?
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.
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| | From: | Paul McKenna | | Subject: | Re: Frogs | | Date: | Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:51:14 -0000 |
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"Allan Adler" wrote in message
news:y93oeg6pgok.fsf@nestle.csail.mit.edu...
>
> I'm about 1/4 of the way through Aristophanes' Frogs in Greek, Loeb
> Classical
> edition. Dionysios has just received a sponge from Xanthias to wipe his
> takapouli, saying he needed it for his "kardian", which primarily means
> "heart" but also, apparently, "stomach", which might included bowels.
>
> At any rate, this is the only time I've read anything about what the
> ancient Greeks used for toilet paper. Were sponges the rule or the
> exception? When sponges were used, were they discarded or were they
> cleaned and reused, both by the owner and by his guests?
> --
> Ignorantly,
> Allan Adler
> * Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions
> and
> * comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near
> Boston.
Allan,
In the line when D asks for a sponge he says that he is feeling faint. I
think the whole charade is an attempt for him to try to retain some
dignity - he knows he's going to wipe his bum with whatever he gets but at
that point nobody else does. Xanthias is quite surprised when his (D's) hand
disappears behind his back!
I'm not sure that we can deduce from this that Athenians normally used
sponges for this reason - any more than if I ran into the woods shouting
that I'd been caught short while pulling a hanky from my pocket, that we
would normally do the same :o)
I think it's more like Aristophanes setting D up for another fall - great
play it is too :o)
Paul McK
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| | From: | o8TY | | Subject: | Re: Frogs | | Date: | Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:03:52 +1100 |
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| "Paul McKenna" wrote in message
news:crc479$fin$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Allan Adler" wrote in message
> news:y93oeg6pgok.fsf@nestle.csail.mit.edu...
> >
> > I'm about 1/4 of the way through Aristophanes' Frogs in Greek, Loeb
> > Classical
> > edition. Dionysios has just received a sponge from Xanthias to wipe his
> > takapouli, saying he needed it for his "kardian", which primarily means
> > "heart" but also, apparently, "stomach", which might included bowels.
> >
> > At any rate, this is the only time I've read anything about what the
> > ancient Greeks used for toilet paper. Were sponges the rule or the
> > exception? When sponges were used, were they discarded or were they
> > cleaned and reused, both by the owner and by his guests?
> > --
> > Ignorantly,
> > Allan Adler
> > * Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My
actions
> > and
> > * comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near
> > Boston.
>
> Allan,
>
> In the line when D asks for a sponge he says that he is feeling faint. I
> think the whole charade is an attempt for him to try to retain some
> dignity - he knows he's going to wipe his bum with whatever he gets but at
> that point nobody else does. Xanthias is quite surprised when his (D's)
hand
> disappears behind his back!
> I'm not sure that we can deduce from this that Athenians normally used
> sponges for this reason - any more than if I ran into the woods shouting
> that I'd been caught short while pulling a hanky from my pocket, that we
> would normally do the same :o)
>
> I think it's more like Aristophanes setting D up for another fall - great
> play it is too :o)
>
> Paul McK
>
Its just another play upon the Dionysos fungus. The Latin fungi derives from
the Greek sponge and fungi regularly grow from excrement. Sure gives new
meaning to the word toadstool. Look Xanthias (Rocky), watch me pull a fungus
out of my bum.
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