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 | | From: | David Gould | | Subject: | Why would anyone choose Opera over Firefox? | | Date: | Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:28:46 +0000 |
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 | On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:40:09 +0100, "michael johnson"
wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:47:53 -0500, Mike wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:06:02 +0000, David Gould
>> wrote:
>[...]
>>> Still recommend rethinking the X on every tab issue...
>>
>> That is what I was thinking when I was using 7.6c. But since I had to
>> revert to 7.54 due to the crash on startup problem, I now miss the X on
>> each tab.
>
>I've also come to like it. The best would be to have an option in the
>preferences though
I hate to make a big deal out of this, but I think Opera is at a
critical stage in its development and I'd like to see it flourish.
For the first time, people are seriously considering moving away from
IE. Therefore, Opera is not competing with IE any more, it's competing
with Firefox. Opera is either going to be the browser of choice, or
it's going to be marginalised by Firefox.
You guys prefer the X on each tab in comparison to what? MDI controls?
I've already explained why I think Firefox's X implementation is vastly
superior, but it doesn't matter what we think - we're already sold on
Opera. As far as Opera's desktop market share is concerned, it only
matters what IE converts are drawn to.
And to my knowledge, nobody has asked them. Not about this, and not
about any other aspect of development.
Dave, http://www.deep-trance.com
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| | From: | Mike | | Subject: | Re: Why would anyone choose Opera over Firefox? | | Date: | Sun, 19 Dec 2004 10:57:29 -0500 |
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| On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:28:46 +0000, David Gould wrote:
>On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:40:09 +0100, "michael johnson"
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:47:53 -0500, Mike wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:06:02 +0000, David Gould
>>> wrote:
>>[...]
>>>> Still recommend rethinking the X on every tab issue...
>>>
>>> That is what I was thinking when I was using 7.6c. But since I had to
>>> revert to 7.54 due to the crash on startup problem, I now miss the X on
>>> each tab.
>>
>>I've also come to like it. The best would be to have an option in the
>>preferences though
>
>I hate to make a big deal out of this, but I think Opera is at a
>critical stage in its development and I'd like to see it flourish.
>
>For the first time, people are seriously considering moving away from
>IE. Therefore, Opera is not competing with IE any more, it's competing
>with Firefox. Opera is either going to be the browser of choice, or
>it's going to be marginalised by Firefox.
>
>You guys prefer the X on each tab in comparison to what? MDI controls?
>
>I've already explained why I think Firefox's X implementation is vastly
>superior, but it doesn't matter what we think - we're already sold on
>Opera. As far as Opera's desktop market share is concerned, it only
>matters what IE converts are drawn to.
>
>And to my knowledge, nobody has asked them. Not about this, and not
>about any other aspect of development.
>
Your inference that Opera should do what you want because your opinion
represents all those who are comparing Opera to FireFox does not hold water.
I do not want Opera to be a clone of whatever else is out there. I like the
ability to select a browser with the features I prefer.
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| | From: | David Gould | | Subject: | Re: Why would anyone choose Opera over Firefox? | | Date: | Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:30:37 +0000 |
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| On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 10:57:29 -0500, Mike
wrote:
>Your inference that Opera should do what you want because your opinion
>represents all those who are comparing Opera to FireFox does not hold water.
>
>I do not want Opera to be a clone of whatever else is out there. I like the
>ability to select a browser with the features I prefer.
Looks like you missed the point. Go read my post again.
I made no such inference and have no inclination in that regard. I
merely pointed out that millions are leaving IE and looking at Firefox.
Likewise, there is no point Opera being a clone of something which is
free. However, the difference between Opera being the marginal
(although superior) product it always has been, and being the one which
makes Opera Software a lot of money and which web developers take
seriously... is its obvious/publicised advantages over Firefox.
We might assume that IE will lose 50% of its marketshare unless MS have
a radically improved version up its sleeve (and I think if they did,
they'd have announced the FUD by now).
Furthermore, the 50% that move obviously care somewhat about the quality
of the browser they are using.
Opera is vastly superior to Firefox. But it doesn't look it. And until
Opera Software publicise to IE converts why anyone would choose Opera
over Firefox, they're going to lose millions in lost sales.
This is all basic marketing. Even if the 50% figure I used is 5x too
much, it still makes sense for Opera to market aggressively to potential
IE converts.
BTW, the X issue isn't a big deal to me - I'm happy using the MDI
controls.
Dave, http://www.deep-trance.com
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| | From: | Matthew Winn | | Subject: | Re: Why would anyone choose Opera over Firefox? | | Date: | Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:32:02 +0000 (UTC) |
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| On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:28:46 +0000, David Gould wrote:
> [...] but it doesn't matter what we think - we're already sold on
> Opera. As far as Opera's desktop market share is concerned, it only
> matters what IE converts are drawn to.
That's not entirely true. Existing Opera users promote awareness of
the browser. Although the browser does need to be something that new
users can start using right away Opera shouldn't adopt a "we don't
give a damn about existing users" attitude. If it does then all the
existing users will go around trying to dissuade new users from giving
the product a try. People tend to be far more vocal about products
that have disappointed them than products they like.
--
Matthew Winn
[If replying by email remove the "r" from "urk"]
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| | From: | Richard Sobey | | Subject: | Re: Why would anyone choose Opera over Firefox? | | Date: | Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:12:32 +0000 |
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| On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:32:02 +0000 (UTC), o*@matthewwinn.me.urk
(Matthew Winn) wrote:
>On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:28:46 +0000, David Gould wrote:
>> [...] but it doesn't matter what we think - we're already sold on
>> Opera. As far as Opera's desktop market share is concerned, it only
>> matters what IE converts are drawn to.
>
>That's not entirely true. Existing Opera users promote awareness of
>the browser. Although the browser does need to be something that new
>users can start using right away Opera shouldn't adopt a "we don't
>give a damn about existing users" attitude. If it does then all the
>existing users will go around trying to dissuade new users from giving
>the product a try. People tend to be far more vocal about products
>that have disappointed them than products they like.
I'm sorry to say there is no way I can recommend Opera over Firefox as
an alternative to IE. Don't me wrong - I'm the first to say Opera is
better - but while Opera is paid for, or free with adverts, people are
going to choose FF instead.
Not one of my friends is convinced at all unfortunately. No matter how
much I try, it's always the same answer i.e. why buy when FF is free
and no adverts. Etc.
Ah well. I'll keep it up, one day they might convert with me :)
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| | From: | David Gould | | Subject: | Re: Why would anyone choose Opera over Firefox? | | Date: | Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:02:21 +0000 |
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| On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:12:32 +0000, Richard Sobey
wrote:
>I'm sorry to say there is no way I can recommend Opera over Firefox as
>an alternative to IE. Don't me wrong - I'm the first to say Opera is
>better - but while Opera is paid for, or free with adverts, people are
>going to choose FF instead.
So why are YOU choosing Opera? Be honest.
>Not one of my friends is convinced at all unfortunately. No matter how
>much I try, it's always the same answer i.e. why buy when FF is free
>and no adverts. Etc.
IE is free with no adverts. But they saw enough value in FF to justify
converting.
What computers do they use? I have a 386 in my loft they can have for
free! I guarantee it will run every bit of software they use...
Dave, http://www.deep-trance.com
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| | From: | Richard Sobey | | Subject: | Re: Why would anyone choose Opera over Firefox? | | Date: | Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:12:42 +0000 |
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| On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:02:21 +0000, David Gould
wrote:
>On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:12:32 +0000, Richard Sobey
>wrote:
>
>>I'm sorry to say there is no way I can recommend Opera over Firefox as
>>an alternative to IE. Don't me wrong - I'm the first to say Opera is
>>better - but while Opera is paid for, or free with adverts, people are
>>going to choose FF instead.
>
>So why are YOU choosing Opera? Be honest.
I chose Opera over three years ago, it was far superior than IE in
every way (except for some sites which just didn't work without it)
and I paid my money with no hesitation.
If I was making the choice now? Well, I don't know - I'd give them
[Opera and Firefox] both a go. I know that I wouldn't be able to live
without Mouse Gestures though!
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