I'm wondering if I'm part of the majority, or minority on something. So
please reply with your *opinion*. Take a look at the picture in this article
and let me know if you'd shoot the same animal, if given a standing shot
well within your comfortable shooting range.

http://www.buckmasters.com/buckmasters_links/features/041221Ghost.html

Thank you.

From:	kevinb at attglobal.net
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:50:29 -0500

ViperTwo wrote:
> I'm wondering if I'm part of the majority, or minority on something.
So
> please reply with your *opinion*. Take a look at the picture in this
article
> and let me know if you'd shoot the same animal, if given a standing
shot
> well within your comfortable shooting range.
>
>
http://www.buckmasters.com/buckmasters_links/features/041221Ghost.html
>
> Thank you.

Of course I would. See no reason even to hesitate. If I let it go:

1) someone else would shoot it or...
2) it would die of natural causes or predation or something else
anyway, so I might as well eat it rather than have it go to waste or
become coyote food.

Kevin

From:	Fred Moore
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:51:45 -0600

"Larry Caldwell" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c4d04d3121c379498b44e@news.west.earthlink.net...
> In article , vipertwo@fastmail.com
> (ViperTwo) says...
>
> > I'm wondering if I'm part of the majority, or minority on something. So
> > please reply with your *opinion*. Take a look at the picture in this
article
> > and let me know if you'd shoot the same animal, if given a standing shot
> > well within your comfortable shooting range.
>
> No, I wouldn't, but a lot of people would take a shot at any fool not
> wearing blaze orange. What is with those idiots, prancing around in the
> woods in their camo gear? Do they really have a death wish, or are they
> just too stupid to survive?
>
> --
> http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

It's all those idiots prancing around in the woods with firearms who are too
stupid to be certain of their targets prior to shooting that worry me.

From:	no.spam at no.junk.mail.net
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 04:17:17 -0500

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:37:25 -0800, Michaelb wrote:

>> Take a look at the picture in this article
>> and let me know if you'd shoot the same animal, if
>> given a standing shot
>> well within your comfortable shooting range.
>
>Based on the details of the story I sure wouldn't
>shoot him with buckshot... As for shooting him at all
>I wonder if the local gene pool isn't better off
>without him swimming in it? Good hunting!
>

First of all: Yes, I'd shoot him. What difference does the color make? Albino
deer probably have a lower than average life expectancy. Might be true for
piebald as well. Regardless_ If I'm out there deer hunting then this one
qualifies. No laws around here one way or the other. 12pts is fine with me.

BTW_
This is great fodder for our 'running deer' discussion. Sorry_ but the worst
part of this story is a misplaced neck-shot followed by a jump-n-run 'wing-shot'
with (egh!) buck-shot. Makes ya wonder what kind of 'double-lung' shot wouldn't
drop the animal that had been shot twice and was apparently in poor health.
After we settle the 'running game' question maybe we can take on the buck-shot
issue. :)
What's the effective range for buck-shot? 15 feet?

From:	Larry Caldwell
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:28:08 -0800

BTW_
> This is great fodder for our 'running deer' discussion. Sorry_ but
the worst
> part of this story is a misplaced neck-shot followed by a jump-n-run
'wing-shot'
> with (egh!) buck-shot. Makes ya wonder what kind of 'double-lung'
shot wouldn't
> drop the animal that had been shot twice and was apparently in poor
health.
> After we settle the 'running game' question maybe we can take on the
buck-shot
> issue. :)
> What's the effective range for buck-shot? 15 feet?

Certainly no more than 40 yards. A 00 pellet is too light to bring
down a deer
unless you hit something vital, and that depends on a tight pattern.
With a
standard 9 pellet load at 40 yards, you can only depend on 3 or 4
pellets
hitting the body of the deer. 30 yards would be a much more reliable
shot.

There is good reason that deer hunters only use buckshot when forced to
it
by local restrictions.

From:	Saint
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 04:17:34 -0500

ViperTwo Wrote:

> let me know if you'd shoot the same animal

ViperTwo,

I have never been in the situation, but I think it would depend on the
circumstances.

If I was in a heavily hunted area and/or deer were scarce and/or the
season was closing and I hadn't filled my tags, then practicality would
likely take over and I'd shoot.

If I was in a remote location and/or there were lots of deer around
and/or the season had just opened, well, I might just be inclined to
marvel in the strangeness that abounds in nature and let the deer move
on to whatever fate awaits it (of course, in the stories back at camp
it'd be *muuuchhh* bigger, there would be wisps of mist, some form of
unspoken communication and it wouldn't run off into the woods but
merely fade away... )

$0.02
-Paul.

From:	Paul Fundling
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:20:27 -0600

Yes I would.

From:	Michael
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:45:24 -0500

From:	M.C. Williams
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:44:55 -0500

Yes, but only cause if I didn't someone else would.

From:	Michaelb
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:37:25 -0800

> Take a look at the picture in this article
> and let me know if you'd shoot the same animal, if
> given a standing shot
> well within your comfortable shooting range.

Based on the details of the story I sure wouldn't
shoot him with buckshot... As for shooting him at all
I wonder if the local gene pool isn't better off
without him swimming in it? Good hunting!

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

From:	Burt Holyfield
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:51:40 -0600

wrote in message
news:1105381764.049836.58940@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> 2) it would die of natural causes or predation or something else
> anyway, so I might as well eat it rather than have it go to waste or
> become coyote food.
>

You apparently did not read:

"For 5 1/2 years, we had watched the buck grow from a yearling to a mature
buck."

It had not become "coyote food" yet.

Mother Nature is amazingly able to take care of her own.

If it was not illegal in TN then yes I would, However, it is so no I would
not.

From:	Larry Caldwell
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 05:34:19 GMT

In article , vipertwo@fastmail.com
(ViperTwo) says...

> I'm wondering if I'm part of the majority, or minority on something. So
> please reply with your *opinion*. Take a look at the picture in this article
> and let me know if you'd shoot the same animal, if given a standing shot
> well within your comfortable shooting range.

No, I wouldn't, but a lot of people would take a shot at any fool not
wearing blaze orange. What is with those idiots, prancing around in the
woods in their camo gear? Do they really have a death wish, or are they
just too stupid to survive?

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

From:	Neil Weidner
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:44:38 -0600

From:	Larry Caldwell
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 02:52:55 GMT

In article <20050111200331.26551.00000039@mb-m11.aol.com>, tn65x57
@aol.com (TN65X57) says...

> Wild horses and Donkeys should not be hunted, they should be captured or
> eliminated. They are NOT part of the system, but are an introduced species
> that harms the environment like many other critters that are out of place.

So then, are you opposed to pheasant hunting too? They are an
introduced species not native to North America.

Heck, back when there was a lot of open range, it was a really
successful hunt when I brought home a cow. If it didn't have any brands
or tags, it was fair game. It would dress out better than an elk, and
no tag required. If the game warden asked whose cow that was, I would
tell him it was mine, which was the simple truth.

Have you ever eaten horse meat? It's not bad. Sweeter than beef, and
not gamey at all. From a meat hunter's standpoint, a horse or donkey
would be excellent game.

Did you know that it is illegal to sell horse meat for human consumption
in California? That is a stupid, hare brained law if there ever was
one. Why should anyone care if people eat horse meat? Horses just go
to the pet food factories instead, so it doesn't save any horses.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

From:	Jerry
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 04:49:18 -0500

TN65X57 wrote:
> Wild horses and Donkeys should not be hunted, they should be captured or
> eliminated. They are NOT part of the system, but are an introduced species
> that harms the environment like many other critters that are out of place.

As are Pheasants, wild Russian boar and many other game we hunt and fish.
You sure you want to start eliminating them all..................

Jerry

From:	SIRMIKEDUNCAN
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:01:13 -0600

I agree certain enviormentally damaging speices should be eradicated, russian
boars are very hard on the eco system some however will never be eradicated ie:
pheasant to much money is made on hunting them, yet they compete with native
speices for cover and forage Quail and prarrie chickens. The money always
dictaites policies though.

From:	Alex Vitek
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 18:52:46 GMT

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 02:52:55 GMT, Larry Caldwell wrote:

# Why should anyone care if people eat horse meat? Horses just go
#to the pet food factories instead, so it doesn't save any horses.

Of course not. But, to some horse hugger it would be tanamount to cannabilism.
Some of them do not even want the horse to go to the dog food market.

Why is it that everytime there is a news story about the need to reduce the
number of some animal that has reached an overpopulation for the area it is in
the do-gooders call it a slaughter?

Alex Vitek
http://home.ix.netcom.com/~alexvit/outdoor/amv.htm
*******
"History allows us to see the obvious -- but unfortunately, not until it is to late."
-Prince Raphael Corrino
DUNE: HOUSE ATREIDES (Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson)
********

From:	TN65X57
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:51:20 -0500

Wild horses and Donkeys should not be hunted, they should be captured or
eliminated. They are NOT part of the system, but are an introduced species
that harms the environment like many other critters that are out of place.

Tennessee enacted a law to PROTECT albino deer because some neighborhood in
east Tennessee had one and thought it was cute. I think the representative or
senator lived in the same neighborhood.

It is kind of funny in a perverted sort of way, I bet the same ones for
protecting feral horses and donkeys are against "exotic species".

LouisB

From:	Jerry
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Fri, 14 Jan 2005 08:58:29 -0500

Alex Vitek wrote:
>
> Why is it that everytime there is a news story about the need to reduce the
> number of some animal that has reached an overpopulation for the area it is in
> the do-gooders call it a slaughter?

For the same reason when the Calvary wins it is a successful campaign
but when the Indians win it is a massacre. :)

Jerry

From:	Dave
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:51:42 -0600

"Larry Caldwell" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c4d04d3121c379498b44e@news.west.earthlink.net...

> No, I wouldn't, but a lot of people would take a shot at any fool not
> wearing blaze orange. What is with those idiots, prancing around in the
> woods in their camo gear? Do they really have a death wish, or are they
> just too stupid to survive?

I'm not sure where you hunt, but in Texas, a non blaze orange state, we
generally don't go prancing around in the woods, though there are a few
public hunting areas where people are free to act however they please. This
is one of the advantages of having private deer leases, as most of Texas
has. Your fellow hunting partners know where each other will be on stand,
and each hunter has enough defined territory to get out and still hunt if he
so chooses without worrying about crossing paths with other hunters.

Sometimes I think about how nice it would be to hunt public land and be free
to go wherever I please, but then all I have to do is read some of the
horror stories in this group of people being shot, or nearly shot, and
blinds being stolen to get a reality check. Then I have to wonder who the
fools and idiots are.

Dave

From:	Steve at OutdoorFrontiers
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:34:41 -0600

"ViperTwo" wrote in message
news:od-dnVupx4FIOH_cRVn-vw@midco.net...
> I'm wondering if I'm part of the majority, or minority on something. So
> please reply with your *opinion*. Take a look at the picture in this
> article
> and let me know if you'd shoot the same animal, if given a standing shot
> well within your comfortable shooting range.
>
> http://www.buckmasters.com/buckmasters_links/features/041221Ghost.html
>
> Thank you.

If it was a piebald deer like it says in the story, I'd shoot it in a
heartbeat! Here in Wisconsin, albino deer are protected, but piebald deer
are not. In order to qualify as a piebald, it has to have some brown hair
on it. The picture looks like an albino with it's head dirtied and
discolored by rubbing his antlers on trees.

Several deer hunters in Wisconsin over the years have been fined for
shooting a protected species when they shot what they thought was a piebald
deer because it had a brown patch on the head. When it was registered, they
found out that the brown patch was ground in dirt and tree sap and that
they'd shot an albino.

Here's the "official" ruling on shooting albino deer, if you can make heads
or tails out of it.

It is illegal to:

Possess deer antlers in velvet, spotted hides or white deer which are
entirely white except the hooves, tarsal glands, heads and parts of the head
unless special written department authorization is obtained.

So, for me, unless I see some serious brown patches on a deer, in Wisconsin,
I'm not pulling the trigger.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

From:	Dave
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:45:05 -0500

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in
message news:msGEd.2254$4c4.1832@fe07.lga...

> That's what happens when wildlife regulation is decided in the voting
> booths.

This is exactly why Texas Parks and Wildlife is set up to be self sufficient
through license and access fees. Once legislators start appropriating funds
they feel entitled to dictate how wildlife is managed. Obviously that would,
and is in many states, a mistake.

From:	Chris Barnes
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:44:34 -0600

Matt wrote:
>> *sigh*
>> If it's the law, neither would I. Still, it would stink.
>
> Why would it stink?

To protect a *color* of a species for purely sentimental reasons is
idiotic. Actually, to protect any animal for anything other than game
management reasons is idiotic. It makes for 'bad law'.

And bad laws stink.

--

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
"Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay."

From:	Natman
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:52:48 -0500

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:34:41 -0600, "Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers"
wrote:

>
>Several deer hunters in Wisconsin over the years have been fined for
>shooting a protected species when they shot what they thought was a piebald
>deer because it had a brown patch on the head. When it was registered, they
>found out that the brown patch was ground in dirt and tree sap and that
>they'd shot an albino.
>
>Here's the "official" ruling on shooting albino deer, if you can make heads
>or tails out of it.
>
>It is illegal to:
>
>Possess deer antlers in velvet, spotted hides or white deer which are
>entirely white except the hooves, tarsal glands, heads and parts of the head
>unless special written department authorization is obtained.
>
>So, for me, unless I see some serious brown patches on a deer, in Wisconsin,
>I'm not pulling the trigger.
>--
Any guesses as to why the powers that be care about albino deer? Are
they selling suntan lotion to them on the side? Reincarnation of
ancient spirits????

From:	Steve at OutdoorFrontiers
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:00:32 -0600

"Natman" wrote in message

> Any guesses as to why the powers that be care about albino deer? Are
> they selling suntan lotion to them on the side? Reincarnation of
> ancient spirits????

Sure, I can tell you exactly why. The bunny huggers and uninformed in
Madison, our state capitol (60 square miles surrounded by reality) have
decided that they're "Too Pretty" to harvest and as such, should be
protected. Talk to any wildlife biologist and you'll get a different story.

That's what happens when wildlife regulation is decided in the voting
booths.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

From:	Matt
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:24:53 -0500

Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:

> Sure, I can tell you exactly why. The bunny huggers and uninformed in
> Madison, our state capitol (60 square miles surrounded by reality) have
> decided that they're "Too Pretty" to harvest and as such, should be
> protected. Talk to any wildlife biologist and you'll get a different story.

What would a wildlife biologist say? I doubt we've heard from any so
far on this thread.

From:	Jon Purvis
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:31:33 -0500

Matt wrote:
> Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
>
>> Sure, I can tell you exactly why. The bunny huggers and uninformed in
>> Madison, our state capitol (60 square miles surrounded by reality) have
>> decided that they're "Too Pretty" to harvest and as such, should be
>> protected. Talk to any wildlife biologist and you'll get a different
>> story.
>
> What would a wildlife biologist say? I doubt we've heard from any so
> far on this thread.

As a card carrying biologist (Texas Parks and Wildlife Dept), I would give a definite maybe. :/ If
it was on my land, I'd likely leave it be, just so I could have the fun of watching it later and
seeing how long it managed to live. If on state land, I'd probably shoot it. As a biologist I
would say that there's no biological reason for either taking it or not taking it. That is, I'm not
concerned about the color of the deer, and feel no need to try and maintain a tan-colored
population. Feel the same way about the melanistic population of deer here in central Texas.
However, wildlife management is about equal parts habitat management and people management, and
knowing when to put human values first is important. If I lived near an Indian tribe, I'd likely
let it go, then let them know about it. It would mean a lot to them, and I can always get another
deer, so why not make some people happy.

From:	James Beck
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:50:39 -0500

In article , chris@txbarnes.com says...
> Matt wrote:
> >> *sigh*
> >> If it's the law, neither would I. Still, it would stink.
> >
> > Why would it stink?
>
> To protect a *color* of a species for purely sentimental reasons is
> idiotic. Actually, to protect any animal for anything other than game
> management reasons is idiotic. It makes for 'bad law'.
>
> And bad laws stink.
>

Not just a color, a genetic mutation that actually reduces the animals
chance of survival. Not something you would normally want to encourage.

Jim

From:	Steve at OutdoorFrontiers
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:12:18 -0600

"Chris Barnes" wrote in message
news:cruvkb$k5c$1@news.tamu.edu...
> Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
>> Here's the "official" ruling on shooting albino deer, if you can make
>> heads or tails out of it.
>>
>> It is illegal to:
>>
>> Possess deer antlers in velvet,
>
> I have heard of a rare condition where antlers do not harden and stay in
> velvet continuously. It would suck to get burned by a deer with a wierd
> medical condition.

***I think that if you took it during the legal deer season and had a warden
look at it immediately, you could easily get the permit to keep it. I
believe the law was written the way it was to help reduce/prevent summertime
poaching.
>
>
>> spotted hides
>
> No axis deer?
> (That reminds me; I have an axis hide in my freezer that I need to get
> tanned).

***We don't have axis or fallow deer running around here in the wild, only
high fence hunting operations. As I sit here, I have a spotted hide from a
fallow deer that's perfectly legal.
>
>
>> or white deer
>
> Ok, this is just silly. In the wild (without human intervention), a
> white deer would have LESS of a chance to survive due to it's inability
> to avoid preditors (except when there is snow on the ground).

***I agree wholeheartedly with you, and most of the other deer hunters in
the state probably do as well, but no one ever said that all game
regulations have to make sense.
>
>
>> So, for me, unless I see some serious brown patches on a deer, in
>> Wisconsin, I'm not pulling the trigger.
>
>
> *sigh*
> If it's the law, neither would I. Still, it would stink.

***It does.......
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

From:	Dave
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:01:13 -0600

"Matt" wrote in message
news:MHxFd.3790$Nj4.78@news01.roc.ny...

> What would a wildlife biologist say? I doubt we've heard from any so
> far on this thread.

Here's one...

http://www.pabucks.com/deer-hunting-forum/viewtopic.php?p=6699

From:	Steve at OutdoorFrontiers
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Fri, 14 Jan 2005 08:23:59 -0600

"Matt" wrote in message
news:MHxFd.3790$Nj4.78@news01.roc.ny...
> Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
>
>> Sure, I can tell you exactly why. The bunny huggers and uninformed in
>> Madison, our state capitol (60 square miles surrounded by reality) have
>> decided that they're "Too Pretty" to harvest and as such, should be
>> protected. Talk to any wildlife biologist and you'll get a different
>> story.
>
> What would a wildlife biologist say? I doubt we've heard from any so
> far on this thread.

The wildlife biologists that I've talked to have said that they are nothing
more than a genetic mutation and deserve no special treatment or management.
The decision to protect them is solely based on their appearance.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

From:	Chris Barnes
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:29:34 -0600

Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
> Here's the "official" ruling on shooting albino deer, if you can make
> heads or tails out of it.
>
> It is illegal to:
>
> Possess deer antlers in velvet,

I have heard of a rare condition where antlers do not harden and stay in
velvet continuously. It would suck to get burned by a deer with a wierd
medical condition.

> spotted hides

No axis deer?
(That reminds me; I have an axis hide in my freezer that I need to get
tanned).

> or white deer

Ok, this is just silly. In the wild (without human intervention), a
white deer would have LESS of a chance to survive due to it's inability
to avoid preditors (except when there is snow on the ground).

> So, for me, unless I see some serious brown patches on a deer, in
> Wisconsin, I'm not pulling the trigger.

*sigh*
If it's the law, neither would I. Still, it would stink.

--

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
"Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay."

From:	Eric Maiwald
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:51:43 -0600

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Chris Barnes wrote:
> > or white deer
>
> Ok, this is just silly. In the wild (without human intervention), a
> white deer would have LESS of a chance to survive due to it's inability
> to avoid preditors (except when there is snow on the ground).

Yeah, well, so much for evolution, natural selection, and survival of the
fitest :-)

Back about 6 or 7 years ago, some of the counties and the state DNR
here in MD started doing managed hunts to reduce the deer population
in some parks. In one state park there were two deer of special interest:
one was piebald and the other albino. The visitors center had pictures
and the school children named them.

The first day of the managed hunt in this park was met with protests
(one guy dressed himself in a deer costume and locked himself to the
gate). We were told not to shoot either of the special deer as it would
be a pulbic relations nightmare for DNR. Unbeknowst to us, some of these
protesters sneaked into the park as the hunters were heading out,
found the albino (and I think the piebald as well), shot a tranquilizer
into it (perhaps both but I don't remember) so that they could "keep
it safe." Well, they used too much of the drug and killed the albino.

Of course, that part of the story didn't get much play but the guy in the
deer suite sure did!

Eric

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Maiwald So Many Hobbies,
emaiwald@fred.net So little time

"A compromise which results in a half-step toward evil is all wrong."
--Theodore Roosevelt
---------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Matt
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:46:37 -0500

Chris Barnes wrote:
> Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
>
> Ok, this is just silly. In the wild (without human intervention), a
> white deer would have LESS of a chance to survive due to it's inability
> to avoid preditors (except when there is snow on the ground).

Please explain how the deer in question got to be 5 1/2 years old
without any special protection.
>
>
>
>>So, for me, unless I see some serious brown patches on a deer, in
>>Wisconsin, I'm not pulling the trigger.
>
>
>
> *sigh*
> If it's the law, neither would I. Still, it would stink.

Why would it stink?

From:	jadel
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:57:08 -0800

It did have protection--no predators.

J. Del Col

From:	Matt
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:01:00 -0500

jadel wrote:
> It did have protection--no predators.

I expect that there were coyotes in the area and that they were a danger
to the deer as a fawn.

From:	Handywired
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 07:33:06 -0500

I probably would not shoot it. I'd just catch too much crap from everyone from
my wife and kids to my friends to who knows who else. People get sentimental
about that stuff and sometimes it's much easier to go along than to say f#@&
'em.

Also, in this area (western Oregon), white deer are sacred to the Native
Americans, and I respect all religions equally, not having one of my own. For
all I know, the Native Americans might be right!

-jeff

From:	Chris Barnes
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:39:45 -0600

Handywired wrote:
> Also, in this area (western Oregon), white deer are sacred to the
> Native Americans, and I respect all religions equally,

Somehow I doubt it - do you eat beef?
If so, I imagine the Buddists would be pretty upset with you...

--

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
"Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay."

From:	Paul Fundling
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:34:28 -0600

Chris, were you maybe thinking of the Hindu religion?

From:	Handywired
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:01:13 -0600

>Handywired wrote:
>> Also, in this area (western Oregon), white deer are sacred to the
>> Native Americans, and I respect all religions equally,
>
>Somehow I doubt it - do you eat beef?
>If so, I imagine the Buddists would be pretty upset with you...
>Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes

Well, I also DISRESPECT all religions (er, cults) equally !

Besides, you mean the Hindus...

-jeff

From:	jadel
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 05:44:11 -0800

Strict Buddhists are vegetarians, so although Chris probably meant the
Hindus, he was right about the buddhists, too.

J. Del Col

From:	Paul Fundling
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:04:19 -0600

jadel, you are right. I did a little research after posting. I guess
the few American self-proclaimed buddhist I met are not very orthodox.

;-)

From:	jadel
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:56:51 -0800

Hinayana or theravada buddhists are strictly vegetarian. Their
adherence to the doctrine of reverence for all living things prohibits
the eating of animal flesh of any kind. They even go so far as not to
harm insects, including mosquitoes. Quite often they despise any
occupation connected with killing animals or using any parts of
animals' bodies. Hunters, butchers, fishermen, tanners, and
leatherworkers are all considered contemptible. This attitude leads to
considerable social tension in some countries, Mayanmar (Burma,) for
example.

And in Japan, an entire group of people, the bunrakumen, is
discriminated against on the basis of their occupations or those of
their ancestors. If your family name is the Japanese equivalent of
"tanner" or "skinner," for example, you may well be denied educational
opportunites, employment or advancement. Such discrimination is
illegal, but the the practice is still widespread. People in these
groups often live under assumed names. Japanese law makes changing
one's name legally very difficult.

All buddhists are -supposed- to be vegetarians.

Many New Age "buddhists" want the mystery without the disipline.
J. Del Col

From:	Jerry
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:30:09 -0600

Paul Fundling wrote:
> jadel, you are right. I did a little research after posting. I guess
> the few American self-proclaimed buddhist I met are not very orthodox.

Actually there are many different sects of Buddhism. Some are strictly
vegetarians and some allow the eating of fish and meat. Eating meat and
fish was acceptable in Sanghas during Buddha's life. So everyone is
correct.....

Jerry

From:	BTMO
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:28:12 +1300

"Chris Barnes" <> wrote

> > Also, in this area (western Oregon), white deer are sacred to the
> > Native Americans, and I respect all religions equally,
>
> Somehow I doubt it - do you eat beef?
> If so, I imagine the Buddists would be pretty upset with you...

I don't think you are going to meet many Buddists (or Hindus) in a hunting
newsgroup...

;-)

From:	jadel
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 11:52:44 -0800

Why on earth would they protect albino deer? They aren't a species at
all. Are there white fallow deer running around the state?

I have seen one piebald deer in the 30 years I've hunted. I thought
it was an anorectic cow until I got the binoculars on it. It turned
out to be a doe, but it was buck season. It's perfectly legal to shoot
albino deer here in WV, though some people have weird superstitions
about them.

J. Del Col

From:	Jon Purvis
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:09:09 -0500

jadel wrote:
> Why on earth would they protect albino deer? They aren't a species at
> all. Are there white fallow deer running around the state?

Albino animals have special significance to many Indian tribes, thus one reason for the protection.
We protect feral horses and donkey from hunting, why not white deer and bison?

From:	jadel
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 06:26:00 -0800

Albino deer are genetic freaks that wouldn't last long if there were
natural predators to kill them. In addition to being easy to spot, they
have impaired vision and other problems that make them easy prey.
Sentimentality won't change the laws of nature, or at least not for
long.

J. Del Col

From:	Matt
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:46:08 -0500

jadel wrote:
> Albino deer are genetic freaks that wouldn't last long if there were
> natural predators to kill them. In addition to being easy to spot, they
> have impaired vision and other problems that make them easy prey.
> Sentimentality won't change the laws of nature, or at least not for
> long.
>
> J. Del Col

The white deer in the article was 5 1/2 years old and survived to that
age without any special protection.

"The 12-point buck was not only a very unusual color, but he was like a
ghost during deer season. When the season was in, you never saw the
white deer, but in 2004, he was spotted by a bowhunter on Thursday, Nov.
11, the day before gun season opened. However, the hunter decided he was
too far away for a shot so, he passed, and the buck was allowed to live
another day."

Your understanding of "the laws of nature" is conspicuously sophomoric.

From:	jadel
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 05:58:11 -0800

Were there any predators capable of killing it? Albinos don't last
where there are predators..

J. Del Col

From:	Matt
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 09:15:39 -0500

I wrote:
> The white deer in the article was 5 1/2 years old and survived to that
> age without any special protection.

jadel wrote:
> Were there any predators capable of killing it? Albinos don't last
> where there are predators..
>
> J. Del Col

Hunters aren't predators?

From:	jadel
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 05:46:48 -0800

If there were natural predators, even fewer albinos would survive for
hunters to shoot.

Give it up. Albinos are rarities, about one in 30.000 deer. The
survival of one for 5 1/2 years says nothing about the survival of
albinos in general.

J. Del Col

From:	Matt
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:25:54 -0500

jadel wrote:
> If there were natural predators, even fewer albinos would survive for
> hunters to shoot.

And why is that important? What point are you trying to make?

>
> Give it up.

Give what up? Trying to discuss a small point of animal ecology
objectively? Please state whatever claim you want me to give up.

> Albinos are rarities, about one in 30.000 deer.

And you are claiming that in support of what point?

> The
> survival of one for 5 1/2 years says nothing about the survival of
> albinos in general.

I see. You simply discard a data point that doesn't support your claim.

From:	Chris Barnes
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:38:21 -0600

Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers wrote:
>> No axis deer?
>> (That reminds me; I have an axis hide in my freezer that I need to
>> get tanned).
>
> ***We don't have axis or fallow deer running around here in the wild,
> only high fence hunting operations. As I sit here, I have a spotted
> hide from a fallow deer that's perfectly legal.

The axis I shot was an "escapee" from a game farm that had hit upon hard
times (during the oil bust of the late 80's). Their fences had fallen
into disrepair allowing the axis (and fallow deer, and some audad sheep)
to filter onto adjacent properties. I shot it in the late 90's.

It's a actually pretty common story for central & south Texas.

--

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
"Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay."

From:	Dave
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:41:10 -0600

"M.C. Williams" wrote in message
news:26380-41E3CEB5-646@storefull-3211.bay.webtv.net...
> Yes, but only cause if I didn't someone else would.

I had a buddy that shot three bucks in one day in a two buck limit county.
When I asked him what was up with that he responded, "If I didn't shoot
them, the hunters on the next ranch would". I wasn't hunting with him that
day, and I never hunted with him again. In fact, when he asked to get on our
deer lease years later, I flatly refused.

Through responsible management we are now taking trophy bucks off a free
ranging lease that had very poor quality bucks thirteen years ago. I doubt
we would be where we are today had we condoned his, and your type of
attitude.

Would I have taken that buck? If I still had a buck tag and needed the meat,
you bet! He was a mature deer and past his prime. Time for him to go.

Dave

From:	Fred Moore
Subject:	Re: Would you shoot it?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:51:46 -0600