Hi,

I remember reading that pepper sprays were successfully used by hunters
and hickers to defend themselves against attacking bears (although I
also remember other people dismissing these reports). I was wondering
if anyone could reccommend a large pepper spray model rugged enough to
be carried outdoors (corrosion-resistant & waterproof) and powerful
enough to project pepper at about 8-12 feet distance.

My concern is not so much bears, although we do have them around here,
as alligators which I regularly see when I kayak. This might sound a
little silly (chasing gators away form a kayak with pepper), but keep
in mind that gators do not approach kayaks submerged, but with their
eyes and nostrils *above* the water and I therefore suspect that they
would be very much susceptible to pepper sprays.

Carrying a handgun would do the job, but it would be illegal in most
circumstances and I simply don't want to shoot animals unless I am
under attack. With a pepper spray I could chase the gator away
*before* the gator gets too close for my comfort (-: while keeping an
eye on the wind direction I suppose :-)

Anyways, has anyone tried this? Any pepper spray models you could
reccommend? Any other suggestions or advice?
Many thanks in advance,

TW

From:	Marc Reeves
Subject:	Re: pepper spray as defence against wildlife?
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:41:09 -0600

Pepper spray against mammals is very effective. There are areas here in
Montana where you'd be a fool not to carry it.

However, Pepper Spray against reptiles is useless. Reptiles do not have the
sensitive mucus membrains that mammals have. In fact, when I was younger
and dumber I accidently let loose with pepper spray in a buddies house. The
only ones that could stay in the house was his iguna and several snakes.
They didn't even sneeze.

From:	John
Subject:	Re: pepper spray as defence against wildlife?
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 02:01:40 -0600

>The
>only ones that could stay in the house was his iguna and several snakes.
>They didn't even sneeze.

And a snake can sneeze? Never seen that.

John

From:	Mike Fugere
Subject:	Re: pepper spray as defence against wildlife?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:01:46 -0500

"Michaelb" wrote in message
news:20050111161821.4369.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com...
> > I was wondering
> > if anyone could reccommend a large pepper spray
> > model rugged enough to
> > be carried outdoors (corrosion-resistant &
> > waterproof) and powerful
> > enough to project pepper at about 8-12 feet
> > distance.
>

Michaelb wrote:
> I recommend you ask a fish & game officer or a
> wildlife biologist to see if alligators are
> susceptible to pepper and if they are inclined to
> attacked kayaks.
>
I agree with Michaelb - pepper spraying animals might be as illegal
as shooting them, in some cases. Additionally, I have no idea if
alligators or other reptiles respond to pepper spray. We use some
very hot pepper powder in our birdseed which keep the squirrels - or any
marauding mammals, away from the bird feeders, but doesn't bother the
birds one bit !

From:	BTMO
Subject:	Re: pepper spray as defence against wildlife?
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:20:39 +1300

"TW" <> wrote

> Anyways, has anyone tried this? Any pepper spray models you could
> reccommend? Any other suggestions or advice?

Get the pepper spray that uses a hydrocarbon as a propellant.

Rig it so that it will explode underwater....

;-)

(sorry - can't help. No gators or pepper spray allowed here!)

Cheers,

Brenton

From:	no.spam at no.junk.mail.net
Subject:	Re: pepper spray as defence against wildlife?
Date:	Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:11:03 -0500

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 09:51:39 -0600, TW wrote:

>Hi,
>I remember reading that pepper sprays were successfully used by hunters
>and hickers to defend themselves against attacking bears (although I
>also remember other people dismissing these reports). I was wondering
>if anyone could reccommend a large pepper spray model rugged enough to
>be carried outdoors (corrosion-resistant & waterproof) and powerful
>enough to project pepper at about 8-12 feet distance.
>My concern is not so much bears, although we do have them around here,
>as alligators which I regularly see when I kayak. This might sound a
>little silly (chasing gators away form a kayak with pepper), but keep
>in mind that gators do not approach kayaks submerged, but with their
>eyes and nostrils *above* the water and I therefore suspect that they
>would be very much susceptible to pepper sprays.
>Carrying a handgun would do the job, but it would be illegal in most
>circumstances and I simply don't want to shoot animals unless I am
>under attack. With a pepper spray I could chase the gator away
>*before* the gator gets too close for my comfort (-: while keeping an
>eye on the wind direction I suppose :-)
>Anyways, has anyone tried this? Any pepper spray models you could
>reccommend? Any other suggestions or advice?
>Many thanks in advance,
>TW

Not sure about pepper spray and gators.

There are many ways people attempt to protect themselves from attacks by a
grizzly bears. Two of the most popular methods are pepper spray and being sure
that you make plenty of noise while walking in areas bears might inhabit. One
method of making noise is to tie as many small little tinkle type bells to your
outer ware.

That being said do you know how to tell the difference between the (relatively
harmless) black bear scat and grizzly scat?

The grizzle scat smells like pepper and has little bells in it.

Old joke_ sorry_

From:	Donut
Subject:	Re: pepper spray as defence against wildlife?
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 07:33:39 -0500

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 02:01:40 -0600, John
wrote:

>>The
>>only ones that could stay in the house was his iguna and several snakes.
>>They didn't even sneeze.
>
>And a snake can sneeze? Never seen that.
>
>John

John, I get what you mean, and I know you only noted snakes, but...

http://www.kidcyber.com.au/topics/marineiguana.htm

"While they feed in the sea, marine iguanas swallow a lot of salt
water. They have special glands between their eyes and nostrils that
collect and remove salt. The salt gathers in the nostril, and the
iguanas sneeze it out periodically. The salt spray then shoots up in
the air and often falls back onto the marine iguana's head, looking a
bit like a white wig."

I doubt Marcs' buddy had Galapagos Island Iguanas however :)

Sorry, this just reminded me of films I've seen of the Iguanas
"sneezing", quite comical :)

Don

From:	Michaelb
Subject:	Re: pepper spray as defence against wildlife?
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:18:21 -0800

> I was wondering
> if anyone could reccommend a large pepper spray
> model rugged enough to
> be carried outdoors (corrosion-resistant &
> waterproof) and powerful
> enough to project pepper at about 8-12 feet
> distance.

Last time we bought the bear-sized pepperspray we
picked it up at the REI in Anchorage. They sell a
belt pounch too.

> My concern is not so much bears, although we do have
> them around here,
> as alligators which I regularly see when I kayak.

I recommend you ask a fish & game officer or a
wildlife biologist to see if alligators are
susceptible to pepper and if they are inclined to
attacked kayaks.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

From:	Frank Logullo
Subject:	Re: pepper spray as defence against wildlife?
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:41:09 -0600

"Mike Fugere" wrote in message
news:10u8hivm96sndc1@corp.supernews.com...
> "Michaelb" wrote in message
> news:20050111161821.4369.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com...
> > > I was wondering
> > > if anyone could reccommend a large pepper spray
> > > model rugged enough to
> > > be carried outdoors (corrosion-resistant &
> > > waterproof) and powerful
> > > enough to project pepper at about 8-12 feet
> > > distance.
> >
>
> Michaelb wrote:
> > I recommend you ask a fish & game officer or a
> > wildlife biologist to see if alligators are
> > susceptible to pepper and if they are inclined to
> > attacked kayaks.
> >
> I agree with Michaelb - pepper spraying animals might be as illegal
> as shooting them, in some cases. Additionally, I have no idea if
> alligators or other reptiles respond to pepper spray. We use some
> very hot pepper powder in our birdseed which keep the squirrels - or any
> marauding mammals, away from the bird feeders, but doesn't bother the
> birds one bit !

I agree too. I know pepper spray works well on dogs and is supposed to work
on bears. But there could be interspecies differences. When I first bought
tear gas for cycling, I found it would not work on dogs. The spray might
deter them because of the surprise mist but one dog I sprayed with tear gas
just licked it off and several continued to chase me. The tear gas was
working fine on people because one day a dog chased me and a friend and he
got a wiff if it and had to pull over and rinse out his eyes. With some
chemicals, there are orders of magnitude differences in toxicity between
species.
Frank

From:	TW
Subject:	Re: pepper spray as defence against wildlife?
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:43:39 -0600

Frank Logullo wrote:
> I agree too. I know pepper spray works well on dogs and is supposed
to work
> on bears. But there could be interspecies differences. When I first
bought
> tear gas for cycling, I found it would not work on dogs. The spray
might
> deter them because of the surprise mist but one dog I sprayed with
tear gas
> just licked it off and several continued to chase me. The tear gas
was
> working fine on people because one day a dog chased me and a friend
and he
> got a wiff if it and had to pull over and rinse out his eyes. With
some
> chemicals, there are orders of magnitude differences in toxicity
between
> species.
> Frank

There goes my grand idea... I called the local autorities who told me
that to pepper-spray a gator was illegal. And now you tell me that it
might not be effective either. bummer...

Oh well, I guess I will have to get a short-barreled 357 after all!
(these I *know* will work and, besides, I am used to them. as for the
legalities, well I guess I will wait to the very last second before
using it, but I rather get a fine then loose a limb or my life).
Cheers,

TW