(Not affil.)

Saw an ad for this in one of the issues of Tactical Knives in the last year
or so; these are some nice looking blades.

http://www.thrblades.com/gallery.htm

Opinions?

-B

From:	Greyangel
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:31:45 -0800

I've never seen one up close but just from the picture I'm thinking that
"Damascus tactical" thing is just paint on steel. I doubt if there is
true pattern welded steel in that thing. As for the knives themselves... No
opinion.

GA

"Badger" wrote in message
news:63anu0dq7ln02dklub660qnags28qmqks4@4ax.com...
>
> (Not affil.)
>
> Saw an ad for this in one of the issues of Tactical Knives in the last
year
> or so; these are some nice looking blades.
>
> http://www.thrblades.com/gallery.htm
>
> Opinions?
>
> -B
>
>

From:	WKF
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 07:42:00 GMT

"paint on steel"...You're kidding, right?

" I doubt if there is true pattern welded steel in that thing."... I doubt
if you know what you're talking about.

"Greyangel" wrote in message
news:0L6dnYFp-tyfa3bcRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
> I've never seen one up close but just from the picture I'm thinking that
> "Damascus tactical" thing is just paint on steel. I doubt if there is
> true pattern welded steel in that thing. As for the knives themselves...
> No
> opinion.
>
> GA
>
> "Badger" wrote in message
> news:63anu0dq7ln02dklub660qnags28qmqks4@4ax.com...
>>
>> (Not affil.)
>>
>> Saw an ad for this in one of the issues of Tactical Knives in the last
> year
>> or so; these are some nice looking blades.
>>
>> http://www.thrblades.com/gallery.htm
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>> -B
>>
>>
>
>

From:	Greyangel
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:17:38 -0800

No I DON'T know what I'm talking about. Just looked funny from the picture.
Like it wasn't real pattern weld. Partly because of the shiny line along
the edge. I didn't say it was crap, just that it didn't look right. I've
seen stuff that was just painted on in the past. It looked like that. That
is the reason why I don't care for some of the real pattern weld steel. The
wrong mix of materials makes it look cheesey in my opinion. I love pattern
welded stuff when it's subtle. The really obnoxious stuff I can do without.
I'm entitled to my opinion and nobody has to like it.

GA

"WKF" wrote in message
news:c53Hd.158891$AL5.157457@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> "paint on steel"...You're kidding, right?
>
> " I doubt if there is true pattern welded steel in that thing."... I
doubt
> if you know what you're talking about.
>
>
> "Greyangel" wrote in message
> news:0L6dnYFp-tyfa3bcRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
> > I've never seen one up close but just from the picture I'm thinking that
> > "Damascus tactical" thing is just paint on steel. I doubt if there is
> > true pattern welded steel in that thing. As for the knives
themselves...
> > No
> > opinion.
> >
> > GA
> >
> > "Badger" wrote in message
> > news:63anu0dq7ln02dklub660qnags28qmqks4@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> (Not affil.)
> >>
> >> Saw an ad for this in one of the issues of Tactical Knives in the last
> > year
> >> or so; these are some nice looking blades.
> >>
> >> http://www.thrblades.com/gallery.htm
> >>
> >> Opinions?
> >>
> >> -B
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:07:15 -0700

"Greyangel" wrote
> Like it wasn't real pattern weld. Partly because of the shiny line along
> the edge.

Yeah; it's a bright pattern all right.
I think they did a straight stack of disparate metals and then either filed
the steps or maybe cross-peened the distortion.
It's hard to come up with bad pattern-weld anymore. Even the gang-hammered
stuff from Peshawar ain't bad- the etching sucks and the heat-treatment can
be refined, but the material is pretty workable.

Chas

From:	Greyangel
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 04:59:48 -0800

Another thing that bugs me about this knife is that it "appears" to be made
out of really thin stock. The geometry looks too flat. Part of the
problem here is the site tells you zip about blade. No dimentions, no
materials. All you can go on is a picture and to me at least it looks like
there wasn't much effort put into the blade. Granted there's nothing simple
about pattern welded material but that doesn't mean the knife maker even had
anything to do with that part of it. So much negativity... maybe I just
need to eat some chocolate and get my nails done ;-)

GA

"Chas" wrote in message
news:2pidnXwVOaNNXXDcRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> "Greyangel" wrote
> > Like it wasn't real pattern weld. Partly because of the shiny line
along
> > the edge.
>
> Yeah; it's a bright pattern all right.
> I think they did a straight stack of disparate metals and then either
filed
> the steps or maybe cross-peened the distortion.
> It's hard to come up with bad pattern-weld anymore. Even the gang-hammered
> stuff from Peshawar ain't bad- the etching sucks and the heat-treatment
can
> be refined, but the material is pretty workable.
>
> Chas
>
>

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 06:24:51 -0700

"Greyangel" wrote
> Another thing that bugs me about this knife is that it "appears" to be
> made
> out of really thin stock. The geometry looks too flat.

I like flat-ground blades, and one of the reasons to prefer pattern-weld is
the strength to weight ratio- insofar as snapping catastrophically.
My favorite 'camp'/bivouac knife is 5 7/8" out of 1/8" stock- and
flat-ground to boot. I'm sure it would bend eventually, but never fail
suddenly.

Chas

From:	Greyangel
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:29:50 -0800

Hey, you want a really good cutter you need a thinner blade. I just have an
unreasonable preference for thick stock. No thinner than necessary to gut a
fish ;) Don't much care for little fish either. The taste is way over
rated. I'll take the big fat German Brown any day. But back to knives - As
I've said before, use the tool that's appropriate for the job. If I want a
blade I can get excited about I want to be able to chop wood and poke it in
a tree and stand on it - or chip the rocks it hits when I miss the tree ;-)

GA

"Chas" wrote in message
news:F4ednRzSdKwDwnPcRVn-qQ@comcast.com...
> "Greyangel" wrote
> > Another thing that bugs me about this knife is that it "appears" to be
> > made
> > out of really thin stock. The geometry looks too flat.
>
> I like flat-ground blades, and one of the reasons to prefer pattern-weld
is
> the strength to weight ratio- insofar as snapping catastrophically.
> My favorite 'camp'/bivouac knife is 5 7/8" out of 1/8" stock- and
> flat-ground to boot. I'm sure it would bend eventually, but never fail
> suddenly.
>
> Chas
>
>

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:38:21 -0700

"Greyangel" wrote
> .....If I want a
> blade I can get excited about I want to be able to chop wood and poke it
> in
> a tree and stand on it - or chip the rocks it hits when I miss the tree
> ;-)

Then pattern-weld is your choice- make a knife from it that is the same
weight/proportions as a self-steel blade, and it's going to be exponentially
stronger.

Chas

From:	Greyangel
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:38:01 -0800

"Chas" wrote in message
news:0IKdnUBkC_PaKXLcRVn-oQ@comcast.com...
> "Greyangel" wrote
> > .....If I want a
> > blade I can get excited about I want to be able to chop wood and poke it
> > in
> > a tree and stand on it - or chip the rocks it hits when I miss the tree
> > ;-)
>
> Then pattern-weld is your choice- make a knife from it that is the same
> weight/proportions as a self-steel blade, and it's going to be
exponentially
> stronger.
> Chas

Chas buddy, I've got road to travel yet before I'm ready to seriously do
any forge welding. Yeah, you probably can't beat a forge welded blade but
I'm inclined to think that the best of it is the structurally layered ones
as opposed to the pattern layered stuff. Any rate it is possible to make a
mono steel blade that is damn near indestructable. Adding forge welded
materials is just going the extra mile. Certainly the goal but
"exponentially stronger"??? - hell there's different reasons and different
applications. Depends on what you want it for.

GA

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:00:49 -0700

"Greyangel" wrote
>.....Yeah, you probably can't beat a forge welded blade but
> I'm inclined to think that the best of it is the structurally layered ones
> as opposed to the pattern layered stuff.

Or in the style of nipponto, making the steels for the casing construction
out of composite steel.

> Any rate it is possible to make a
> mono steel blade that is damn near indestructable.

Yup- although again, the weight to strength ratio may be very different.

> ......Certainly the goal but
> "exponentially stronger"??? - hell there's different reasons and
> different
> applications. Depends on what you want it for.

We're talking catastrophic failure. A pattern welded blade is to a
self-steel blade as a wire cable is to a rod. The rod will fail before the
cable, and more catastrophically at that.

Chas

From:	Mark South
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:04:19 +0100

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:38:21 -0700, Chas wrote:

> "Greyangel" wrote
>> .....If I want a
>> blade I can get excited about I want to be able to chop wood and poke it
>> in
>> a tree and stand on it - or chip the rocks it hits when I miss the tree
>> ;-)
>
> Then pattern-weld is your choice- make a knife from it that is the same
> weight/proportions as a self-steel blade, and it's going to be exponentially
> stronger.

Please quote the exponent to 2 decimal places, Chas.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:34:42 -0700

"Mark South" wrote
>> Then pattern-weld is your choice- make a knife from it that is the same
>> weight/proportions as a self-steel blade, and it's going to be
>> exponentially
>> stronger.
> Please quote the exponent to 2 decimal places, Chas.

If you have a rebuttal, you'll have to do your own work.
Do you?

Chas

From:	Mark South
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:19:44 +0100

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:34:42 -0700, Chas wrote:

> "Mark South" wrote
>>> Then pattern-weld is your choice- make a knife from it that is the same
>>> weight/proportions as a self-steel blade, and it's going to be
>>> exponentially
>>> stronger.
>> Please quote the exponent to 2 decimal places, Chas.
>
> If you have a rebuttal, you'll have to do your own work.

I enjoyed the Chas-ism of "exponentially stronger".

In the same way, you could claim to be "exponentially smarter", or
"exponentially faster".

BTW, ITYM "If I have a rebuttal, then I have already *done* my own work".

> Do you?

The exponent will be a number *very* close to unity, and it's not obvious
which side.

It's cool that I still make you feel exponentially defensive.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:40:23 -0700

"Mark South" wrote
> I enjoyed the Chas-ism of "exponentially stronger".

And have no rebuttal for it at all.

> The exponent will be a number *very* close to unity, and it's not obvious
> which side.

Actually, it is.
In every destruction test I've ever heard of, that compared composite steel
to self-steel, composite steel took far longer to fail catastrophically than
the self-steel.

> It's cool that I still make you feel exponentially defensive.

No; you're just silly.
The point, however, is well-made about the comparative utility of the
steels.

Chas

From:	Dave K
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:29:28 -0800

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:40:23 -0700, "Chas"
wrote:

>"Mark South" wrote
>> I enjoyed the Chas-ism of "exponentially stronger".
>
>And have no rebuttal for it at all.
>
>> The exponent will be a number *very* close to unity, and it's not obvious
>> which side.
>
>Actually, it is.
>In every destruction test I've ever heard of, that compared composite steel
>to self-steel, composite steel took far longer to fail catastrophically than
>the self-steel.
>
>> It's cool that I still make you feel exponentially defensive.
>
>No; you're just silly.
>The point, however, is well-made about the comparative utility of the
>steels.
>
>Chas
>

Might as well get the math straight: An exponent of unity gives a
factor equal to whatever base you're working with, like 10, 2, or e
(the base of natural logs). An exponent of zero gives a factor of
unity, regardless of the base.

Dave

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:31:01 -0700

"Dave K" wrote
> Might as well get the math straight:

Wasn't speaking math. The fact that 'math' has co-opted a word from the
language to describe some function as a term of art is irrelevant.
The reverse is also true; a term of art formerly restricted to some
specialty becomes an idiom of common language and ceases to have it's former
definition or usage.
funny that.

Chas

From:	alvinj at XX.com
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:08:28 +0000 (UTC)

> In every destruction test I've ever heard of, that compared
> composite steel to self-steel, composite steel took far longer
> to fail catastrophically than the self-steel.
> Chas

Doggonit we need Howard Clark for this one. :/
(BillH or GA, can you bring it up on the knife-list?)

Off hand I'm guessing bainite will out perform any of it.
Then there are different kinds of pearlite to compare too.
And then, which steels are layered into what pattern?

Bainite is a form of decomposed-austenite just like martensite is.
It's just that to form bainite the austenite is quickly quenched
and then held at like 750F for as long as a day. Not too many
knives made of bainite out there but Howard Clark sometimes makes
'em. ;)

Alvin in AZ

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:31:32 -0700

wrote
> Off hand I'm guessing bainite will out perform any of it.

How many times will it take a 90 deg. angle bend from side to side? When it
fails, does it fail catastrophically (that is to say, snaps), or does it
simply crack partway?

Chas

From:	brian w edginton
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 01:07:02 GMT

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:17:38 -0800, "Greyangel"
wrote:

>No I DON'T know what I'm talking about. Just looked funny from the picture.
>Like it wasn't real pattern weld. Partly because of the shiny line along
>the edge. I didn't say it was crap, just that it didn't look right. I've
>seen stuff that was just painted on in the past. It looked like that. That
>is the reason why I don't care for some of the real pattern weld steel. The
>wrong mix of materials makes it look cheesey in my opinion. I love pattern
>welded stuff when it's subtle. The really obnoxious stuff I can do without.
>I'm entitled to my opinion and nobody has to like it.
>
>GA
>

Personally, I have never seen or heard of "painted-on" patterns.
Have seen cheap knives that have had a pattern ETCHED on.
The shiny edge is inevitable because it is ground. The pattern on most
"damascus" blades is highlighted by chemical application that affects
the two metals differently making the pattern stand out. Sharpening
(grinding) the edge removes the chemical effect leaving a shiny edge.

Actually, I don't like "unsubtle" patterns a lot, either.
brianWE
Been there, done that.....but so have others.
Without the DNA, you can't prove a thing!

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:01:35 -0700

"Greyangel" wrote
> I've never seen one up close but just from the picture I'm thinking that
> "Damascus tactical" thing is just paint on steel. I doubt if there is
> true pattern welded steel in that thing.

Pretty common type pattern- what makes you think it's not right?

Chas

From:	blues at nospam.net
Subject:	Re: Trace Rinaldi Customs - thoughts?
Date:	Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:36:26 GMT

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:00:46 -0500, Badger wrote:

>
>(Not affil.)
>
>Saw an ad for this in one of the issues of Tactical Knives in the last year
>or so; these are some nice looking blades.
>
>http://www.thrblades.com/gallery.htm
>
>Opinions?
>
>-B
>
>

Trace makes some great (using) knives. I have one of his Gambits. I've
never heard anything but praise for his work by any of the folks who
own his work. Highly recommended.

Blues

Live Free Or Die