I was watching a documentary about UFO's and area 51, and I was
wondering if anyone say in a group like RMA besides me has actually
seen a UFO? Or at least believes that there something strange going on
in regard to this UFO thing.

I'll just say that I'm not given to wild imaginings and I would tend
to be skeptical about it if I hadn't seen one of these things with my
own eyes.

I'm not saying that this thing was from outerspace or another
dimension, the facts are that I don't know what it was! I can only
describe what it looked like and what it did.

Also 3 other people saw it with me at the time, and the all describe
seeing the same thing.

Thx Scary

From:	laszlo_spamhole at freemail.hu
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 12:34:23 -0800

Chris Gunn wrote:
> On 23 Jan 2005 10:13:36 -0800, laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:
>
>
> >C'mon, Chas. Ghosts, Chi, and now UFOs? Isn't that a bit much?
>
> That is an odd question.
>
> It's like saying: "How can you be continuing a trend!?"
>
> >Hey, what do you think of the Time Cube?
>
> I like the wall paper.
>
> Personally I'm sticking to my belief in the sun god. I hope to do
some
> more sun worshipping this summer.
>
>
> How's the staying awake business going?
> Filling in your time well?

Sadly, I had to give it up around Christmas (I was bored out of my mind
around 3 AM, and my parents are terribly light sleepers, so they
weren't taking it well).

I haven't had the energy/time/courage to start it up again since then;
the first two weeks are pretty horrible. Also, I'd like to start Judo
again, and intensive excersize and polyphasic sleep do not mix.
> Gunn

Laszlo

From:	laszlo_spamhole at freemail.hu
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 15:28:12 -0800

Chas wrote:
> wrote
> >> There are pictures that defy debunking;
> > Really? Show me one, please.
>
> go do your own research-

I have. I've seen _plenty_ of UFO pictures. I've also seen plenty of
debunkings. I'd like to know which images you imagine "defy debunking".

> it's of no interest to me to go find something for you.

I found stuff for you.

But, okay. Then tell me where you saw these pictures, and how you know
that they "defy debunking".

> >> witnesses that fly for a living,
> > which is no guarantee of infallibility. And it's well known that
higher
> > altitudes do funny things to the brain.
>
> Not dozens of times with whole air crews witnessing as well as radar
record.

As far as I know, radar evidence of UFOs was a big thing when radar was
fairly new and prone to error. As radars became more sophisticated,
radar record of UFOs dropped to zero.

> >> much less trained observers and laymen observers.
> > also no guarantee of infallibility. And despite your evident
dislike of
> > the concept, mass hallucination is a PROVEN phenomenon.
>
> Mass hallucinations with pictures?

Faked pictures, yes.

> >> They have been witnessed by thousands of people at a time,
> >> the same objects photographed by many unrelated
> >> photographers.
> > Photographs I'm interested in. Show me.
>
> Mexico City, Sao Paolo; there are websites and
> documentaries all the time.

Sure, I know. But I'm only one person; unless you expect me to debunk
every single UFO picture ever made, I need to know which pictures you
consider to "defy debunking", so we can have something concrete to
debate.

> >> They've registered on radar, there are recordings of
> >> people as they witness what's on the radar, multiple
> >> accounts by flight crews about the same experience.
> > I've read weird things like that. I don't know if they're true or
not;
> > I haven't heard the recordings or read the original accounts.
>
> Then follow up on it rather than making some judgment
> you'll have to recant.

What, you have access to flight logs?

I'm not bothered by having to recant. I've done it before when I was
wrong, on this NG, and--much to my surprise--I've found that it didn't
actually make my penis any smaller, as many seem to fear.

So make me recant. Go on.

> > I am not convinced of this "obvious fact". I _know_ that eyewitness
> > evidence is horribly inaccurate. Photographs I'm interested in.
> > Eyewitness evidence, not so much.
>
> 'Eyewitness' accounts are very reliable about such gross phenomena-
it's the
> small stuff that they sometimes have trouble with. Eyewitness
accounts are
> very reliable in court, the movies notwithstanding.

Yeah, small stuff like how exactly the UFO was moving. With UFO
sightings, the devil is always in the details.

> Chas

Laszlo

From:	mikejc563 at yahoo.com
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 13:52:05 -0800

laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:
> Scary wrote:
> > I was watching a documentary about UFO's and area 51, and I was
> > wondering if anyone say in a group like RMA besides me has actually
> > seen a UFO? Or at least believes that there something strange going
> on
> > in regard to this UFO thing.
> >
> > I'll just say that I'm not given to wild imaginings and I would
tend
> > to be skeptical about it if I hadn't seen one of these things with
my
> > own eyes.
> >
> > I'm not saying that this thing was from outerspace or another
> > dimension, the facts are that I don't know what it was! I can only
> > describe what it looked like and what it did.
> >
> > Also 3 other people saw it with me at the time, and the all
describe
> > seeing the same thing.
> >
> > Thx Scary
>
> When I was a kid, I liked to say I saw a UFO once. It got me
attention.
> In time, I actually came to believe it myself.
>
> When I was 13-14, I liked to say I could see auras. I talked about it
> at length to my older cousin; she was very impressed (silence in the
> peanut gallery, please). After saying this enough, I really _did_
start
> to see auras, kinda... these little vibratey things around people if
I
> concentrated and squinted just right.
>
> I'm certainly not accusing you and your friends of making things up;
I
> _am_ saying it's at least possible that you're deluding yourselves.
> Some people are more suggestible than others. This does not
> significantly correlate with intelligence, despite what Trav would
have
> you think.
>

May you catch 3 fish in the ocean and believe that that is not all it
has to offer...

Mike

From:	laszlo_spamhole at freemail.hu
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:25:50 -0800

Scary wrote:
> I was watching a documentary about UFO's and area 51, and I was
> wondering if anyone say in a group like RMA besides me has actually
> seen a UFO? Or at least believes that there something strange going
on
> in regard to this UFO thing.
>
> I'll just say that I'm not given to wild imaginings and I would tend
> to be skeptical about it if I hadn't seen one of these things with my
> own eyes.
>
> I'm not saying that this thing was from outerspace or another
> dimension, the facts are that I don't know what it was! I can only
> describe what it looked like and what it did.
>
> Also 3 other people saw it with me at the time, and the all describe
> seeing the same thing.
>
> Thx Scary

When I was a kid, I liked to say I saw a UFO once. It got me attention.
In time, I actually came to believe it myself.

When I was 13-14, I liked to say I could see auras. I talked about it
at length to my older cousin; she was very impressed (silence in the
peanut gallery, please). After saying this enough, I really _did_ start
to see auras, kinda... these little vibratey things around people if I
concentrated and squinted just right.

I'm certainly not accusing you and your friends of making things up; I
_am_ saying it's at least possible that you're deluding yourselves.
Some people are more suggestible than others. This does not
significantly correlate with intelligence, despite what Trav would have
you think.

Laszlo

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:39:59 -0700

wrote
> I'm certainly not accusing you and your friends of making things up; I
> _am_ saying it's at least possible that you're deluding yourselves.
> Some people are more suggestible than others.

There are pictures that defy debunking; witnesses that fly for a living,
much less trained observers and laymen observers. They have been witnessed
by thousands of people at a time, the same objects photographed by many
unrelated photographers.
They've registered on radar, there are recordings of people as they witness
what's on the radar, multiple accounts by flight crews about the same
experience.
All of the accounts are of phenomenon that act in a manner not commensurate
with what we define as 'physical laws'.
Now; what's suspect?
The physical laws as we know them; or the obvious fact that there is
something that defies them?

Chas

From:	mikejc563 at yahoo.com
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 17:05:00 -0800

"Nice correlation between UFO sightings and how close Mars is to the
Earth. I can find other similar correlations between other astronomical
phenomena and UFO sightings if you insist, so please don't say it's
because they're coming from Mars or something."

Uhh no. One object is moving in an intentful manner in the sky, the
other is a fixed cosmic structure in outer space.
Very different.

"Same underlying cause, same type of hallucination. If you believe in
UFOs, you get abducted, if you believe in ghosts, you see one, if
you're religious, you get a vision. If you're none of the above, you
get whatever you're most susceptible to."
Nothing about 'belief', Laz. Just personal observations.

Mike

From:	calvinthecat at ocsnet.net
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 17:55:52 -0800

mikejc563@yahoo.com wrote:
> "Nice correlation between UFO sightings and how close Mars is to the
> Earth. I can find other similar correlations between other
astronomical
> phenomena and UFO sightings if you insist, so please don't say it's
> because they're coming from Mars or something."

No but Mars is easier to see thus more people will see it at that time.

> Uhh no. One object is moving in an intentful manner in the sky, the
> other is a fixed cosmic structure in outer space.
> Very different.

But does *every* observer understand the difference in appearance?
Seeing something is very easy. Interpreting and identifying is very
difficult especially without the proper background. For example if we
take everyone who has ever seen a UFO and show them a few seconds of
ground fighting at a UFC how many of them would know which guy has the
positional advantage?

> "Same underlying cause, same type of hallucination. If you believe in
> UFOs, you get abducted, if you believe in ghosts, you see one, if
> you're religious, you get a vision. If you're none of the above, you
> get whatever you're most susceptible to."
> Nothing about 'belief', Laz. Just personal observations.
Yet personal observations are strongly shaped by belief.

From:	calvinthecat at ocsnet.net
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 07:31:40 -0800

Scary wrote:
> I was watching a documentary about UFO's and area 51, and I was
> wondering if anyone say in a group like RMA besides me has actually
> seen a UFO? Or at least believes that there something strange going
on
> in regard to this UFO thing.

I think everyone has seen something they can't identify. Happens all
the time because seeing is easy but identifying is hard. If it happens
to be in the sky then it is a UFO. For me the real treat was when a
F-117 flew low and slow directly over my house (in daytime) while I was
working in the back yard. Man those things are quiet.

> I'll just say that I'm not given to wild imaginings and I would tend
> to be skeptical about it if I hadn't seen one of these things with my
> own eyes.
>
> I'm not saying that this thing was from outerspace or another
> dimension, the facts are that I don't know what it was! I can only
> describe what it looked like and what it did.
>
> Also 3 other people saw it with me at the time, and the all describe
> seeing the same thing.

What you saw was swamp gas reflecting the light from Venus.

Here - watch this red light.

From:	laszlo_spamhole at freemail.hu
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:13:36 -0800

Chas wrote:
> "Scary" wrote
> > I'll just say that I'm not given to wild imaginings and I would
tend
> > to be skeptical about it if I hadn't seen one of these things with
my
> > own eyes.
> > Also 3 other people saw it with me at the time, and the all
describe
> > seeing the same thing.
>
> Physics says they are impossible on a very basic newtonian level.

What, unidentified objects?

No, Newtonian physics is comfortable with the idea of
objects that haven't been identified.

> You'd have to change the Laws of Physics as We Know It
> to even believe that you and your druggy friends weren't
> having a mass hallucination engendered by your primitive
> superstitious beliefs in Sky-Pixies or a hollow earth.
> Ask Lowe; he'll tell you.

C'mon, Chas. Ghosts, Chi, and now UFOs? Isn't that a bit much?

Hey, what do you think of the Time Cube?
http://www.timecube.com/

> Chas

Laszlo

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:26:58 -0700

wrote
>> Physics says they are impossible on a very basic newtonian level.
> What, unidentified objects?

Nope; ones that act in a way soas to be called 'unidentified'.
Ones that act in a way commensurate with the 'laws of physics' don't garner
much attention other than in New Guinea or whatever.

> C'mon, Chas. Ghosts, Chi, and now UFOs? Isn't that a bit much?

'Science's' answer for all of them is pretty much the same-
swamp gas.

> Hey, what do you think of the Time Cube?
> http://www.timecube.com/

That the author was 20, at most.

Chas

From:	Chris Gunn
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:21:22 +1300

On 23 Jan 2005 10:13:36 -0800, laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:

>C'mon, Chas. Ghosts, Chi, and now UFOs? Isn't that a bit much?

That is an odd question.

It's like saying: "How can you be continuing a trend!?"

>Hey, what do you think of the Time Cube?

I like the wall paper.

Personally I'm sticking to my belief in the sun god. I hope to do some
more sun worshipping this summer.

How's the staying awake business going?
Filling in your time well?

Gunn

From:	nemo outis
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:34:16 GMT

In article <1106504016.289665.85400@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:

I firmly believe in UFOs. And I believe that is exactly what
they are: UNIDENTIFED flying objects. It's the loons who
insist they have identified them who annoy me.

Regards,

From:	calvinthecat at ocsnet.net
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 13:50:12 -0800

laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:

> > You'd have to change the Laws of Physics as We Know It

Compared to what we will probably know about physics 500 years from now
our current knowledge of physics might seem as high tech as what we
knew during the Dark Ages would seem today.

> > to even believe that you and your druggy friends weren't
> > having a mass hallucination engendered by your primitive
> > superstitious beliefs in Sky-Pixies or a hollow earth.
> > Ask Lowe; he'll tell you.
>
> C'mon, Chas. Ghosts, Chi, and now UFOs? Isn't that a bit much?
>
> Hey, what do you think of the Time Cube?
> http://www.timecube.com/

I think that had to be written by Hal. It is a gem that keeps going
and going. I especially liked the part about how God evolved from
Santa Clause.

From:	calvinthecat at ocsnet.net
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 14:06:06 -0800

Chas wrote:
> wrote
> > The thing is, we _know_ that countless people report the moon as a
UFO.
> > Ditto for Venus. Every time there's any celestial phenomenon out of
the
> > ordinary, UFO sightings go up.
>
> Never heard anything like that- where'd you hear it?
>
> > Also, for ghosts (and UFO abduction experiences, which are
basically
> > the same thing),
>
> How in the world are they 'the same thing'?

One way they *could be* the same thing is if the same phenomenon were
interprited differntly based on the beliefs and background of the
person who experiences it. 500 years ago it happens to a peasant who
belives werewolves and vampires are real and thus he thinks he is
either a werewolf or a vampire. Say the same experince happens today
to someone who belives ghosts are very real and he will think he is
some kind of medium. If instead he belives aliens visit earth in
flying saucers then he might think he was abducted and had his memmory
wiped. If it happened to me I would probably think I had seen God or
were under attack by the devil. World views shape perception of
events.

Note: that does not mean the phenomenom is not real or all
interpritations are wrong.

> >...This includes your own experience with a
> > ghost, which (if I remember correctly) includes every single
typical
> > hallmark of sleep paralysis hallucination.

Anyone know a good scientific sites on sleep paralysis hallucinations?
I would like to explore that topic in greater depth.

From:	laszlo_spamhole at freemail.hu
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 10:49:53 -0800

Chas wrote:
> wrote
> >> Physics says they are impossible on a very basic newtonian level.
> > What, unidentified objects?
>
> Nope; ones that act in a way soas to be called 'unidentified'.
> Ones that act in a way commensurate with the 'laws of physics' don't
garner
> much attention other than in New Guinea or whatever.

The thing is, we _know_ that countless people report the moon as a UFO.
Ditto for Venus. Every time there's any celestial phenomenon out of the
ordinary, UFO sightings go up.

Obviously, this doesn't prove that all UFO sightings are overexcited
people reporting celestial phenomena, but it does tend to make one a
bit sceptical. If people (not one person, not two people, but _hordes_)
mistake the friggin' MOON for a UFO, I'm inclined to believe that
airplanes, street lights, discos, and reflected light would get people
into a right furious tizzy.

> > C'mon, Chas. Ghosts, Chi, and now UFOs? Isn't that a bit much?
>
> 'Science's' answer for all of them is pretty much the same-
> swamp gas.

And hysteria and self-delusion, yes. I'm sure you don't want to argue
that hysteria and self-delusion _aren't_ powerful forces.

Also, for ghosts (and UFO abduction experiences, which are basically
the same thing), the usual answer is almost certainly sleep paralysis
and attendant hallucinations. This includes your own experience with a
ghost, which (if I remember correctly) includes every single typical
hallmark of sleep paralysis hallucination.

Most people have one or two sleep paralysis experiences in their lives;
I've had one, so far. It was pretty terrifying, especially since I
didn't know what it was at the time.

Laszlo

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:49:46 -0700

wrote
> The thing is, we _know_ that countless people report the moon as a UFO.
> Ditto for Venus. Every time there's any celestial phenomenon out of the
> ordinary, UFO sightings go up.

Never heard anything like that- where'd you hear it?

> Also, for ghosts (and UFO abduction experiences, which are basically
> the same thing),

How in the world are they 'the same thing'?

>...This includes your own experience with a
> ghost, which (if I remember correctly) includes every single typical
> hallmark of sleep paralysis hallucination.

Nope; wide awake, working at my bench, mid-afternoon, lots of sunlight.

Chas

From:	laszlo_spamhole at freemail.hu
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 15:18:55 -0800

calvinthecat@ocsnet.net wrote:
> Anyone know a good scientific sites on sleep paralysis
hallucinations?
> I would like to explore that topic in greater depth.

Well, this was the first site Google suggested:

http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/paralysis.html

And it looks pretty good to me. A quick explanation of the basics, and
links to more involved sites.

Laszlo

From:	laszlo_spamhole at freemail.hu
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 15:15:50 -0800

Chas wrote:
> wrote
> > The thing is, we _know_ that countless people report the moon as a
UFO.
> > Ditto for Venus. Every time there's any celestial phenomenon out of
the
> > ordinary, UFO sightings go up.
>
> Never heard anything like that- where'd you hear it?

Assuming you mean my second statement:

http://www.larryhatch.net/50YEARS.html

Nice correlation between UFO sightings and how close Mars is to the
Earth. I can find other similar correlations between other astronomical
phenomena and UFO sightings if you insist, so please don't say it's
because they're coming from Mars or something.

> > Also, for ghosts (and UFO abduction experiences, which are
basically
> > the same thing),
>
> How in the world are they 'the same thing'?

Same underlying cause, same type of hallucination. If you believe in
UFOs, you get abducted, if you believe in ghosts, you see one, if
you're religious, you get a vision. If you're none of the above, you
get whatever you're most susceptible to.

> >...This includes your own experience with a
> > ghost, which (if I remember correctly) includes every single
typical
> > hallmark of sleep paralysis hallucination.
>
> Nope; wide awake, working at my bench, mid-afternoon, lots of
sunlight.

I know, I read what you wrote.

I'd bet dollars to donuts it was pretty boring work, too.
> Chas

Laszlo

From:	laszlo_spamhole at freemail.hu
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 15:33:53 -0800

Chris Gunn wrote:
> On 23 Jan 2005 06:48:34 -0800, modelmakers@msn.com (Scary) wrote:
>
> >I was watching a documentary about UFO's and area 51, and I was
> >wondering if anyone say in a group like RMA besides me has actually
> >seen a UFO? Or at least believes that there something strange going
on
> >in regard to this UFO thing.
>
> >I'm not saying that this thing was from outerspace or another
> >dimension, the facts are that I don't know what it was! I can only
>
>
> I used to stage UFO stunts.
>
> I got pictures in the local papers (taken by some third party) and
> everything.
>
> My uncle one did a nice one on a military radar outpost. He had a
> couple of insiders ready to go: "OMG! What's that on the radar!" etc.
>
> Not much of a challenge really.
>
> We used small hot air balloons.

I like the recent brouhaha about crop circles... all sorts of woo-woos
gave their expert testimony that there was no way a particular circle
could have been man-made, because the crops bent just so, and they were
braided, and none of them were broken, and yadda yadda.

Until a couple of kids confessed it was them. They used wooden planks
and rope.

Laszlo

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:04:19 -0700

"Scary" wrote
> I'll just say that I'm not given to wild imaginings and I would tend
> to be skeptical about it if I hadn't seen one of these things with my
> own eyes.
> Also 3 other people saw it with me at the time, and the all describe
> seeing the same thing.

Physics says they are impossible on a very basic newtonian level. You'd have
to change the Laws of Physics as We Know It to even believe that you and
your druggy friends weren't having a mass hallucination engendered by your
primitive superstitious beliefs in Sky-Pixies or a hollow earth.
Ask Lowe; he'll tell you.

Chas

From:	laszlo_spamhole at freemail.hu
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	23 Jan 2005 11:05:54 -0800

Chas wrote:
> wrote
> > I'm certainly not accusing you and your friends of making things
up; I
> > _am_ saying it's at least possible that you're deluding yourselves.
> > Some people are more suggestible than others.
>
> There are pictures that defy debunking;

Really? Show me one, please.

> witnesses that fly for a living,

which is no guarantee of infallibility. And it's well known that higher
altitudes do funny things to the brain.

> much less trained observers and laymen observers.

also no guarantee of infallibility. And despite your evident dislike of
the concept, mass hallucination is a PROVEN phenomenon. Whether UFO
sightings are mass hallucinations or not is a matter open for debate,
certainly, but that mass hallucinations in general exist is not.

> They have been witnessed by thousands of people at a time,
> the same objects photographed by many unrelated
> photographers.

Photographs I'm interested in. Show me.

> They've registered on radar, there are recordings of
> people as they witness what's on the radar, multiple
> accounts by flight crews about the same experience.

I've read weird things like that. I don't know if they're true or not;
I haven't heard the recordings or read the original accounts.

> All of the accounts are of phenomenon that act in a manner
> not commensurate with what we define as 'physical laws'.
> Now; what's suspect?
> The physical laws as we know them; or the obvious fact
> that there is something that defies them?

I am not convinced of this "obvious fact". I _know_ that eyewitness
evidence is horribly inaccurate. Photographs I'm interested in.
Eyewitness evidence, not so much.

> Chas

Laszlo

From:	Chas
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:45:25 -0700

wrote
>> There are pictures that defy debunking;
> Really? Show me one, please.

go do your own research- it's of no interest to me to go find something for
you.

>> witnesses that fly for a living,
> which is no guarantee of infallibility. And it's well known that higher
> altitudes do funny things to the brain.

Not dozens of times with whole air crews witnessing as well as radar record.

>> much less trained observers and laymen observers.
> also no guarantee of infallibility. And despite your evident dislike of
> the concept, mass hallucination is a PROVEN phenomenon.

Mass hallucinations with pictures?

>> They have been witnessed by thousands of people at a time,
>> the same objects photographed by many unrelated
>> photographers.
> Photographs I'm interested in. Show me.

Mexico City, Sao Paolo; there are websites and documentaries all the time.

>> They've registered on radar, there are recordings of
>> people as they witness what's on the radar, multiple
>> accounts by flight crews about the same experience.
> I've read weird things like that. I don't know if they're true or not;
> I haven't heard the recordings or read the original accounts.

Then follow up on it rather than making some judgment you'll have to recant.
\
> I am not convinced of this "obvious fact". I _know_ that eyewitness
> evidence is horribly inaccurate. Photographs I'm interested in.
> Eyewitness evidence, not so much.

'Eyewitness' accounts are very reliable about such gross phenomena- it's the
small stuff that they sometimes have trouble with. Eyewitness accounts are
very reliable in court, the movies notwithstanding.

Chas

From:	Chris Gunn
Subject:	Re: OT, UFO's Anyone?
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:21:21 +1300

On 23 Jan 2005 06:48:34 -0800, modelmakers@msn.com (Scary) wrote:

>I was watching a documentary about UFO's and area 51, and I was
>wondering if anyone say in a group like RMA besides me has actually
>seen a UFO? Or at least believes that there something strange going on
>in regard to this UFO thing.

>I'm not saying that this thing was from outerspace or another
>dimension, the facts are that I don't know what it was! I can only

I used to stage UFO stunts.

I got pictures in the local papers (taken by some third party) and
everything.

My uncle one did a nice one on a military radar outpost. He had a
couple of insiders ready to go: "OMG! What's that on the radar!" etc.

Not much of a challenge really.

We used small hot air balloons.

Gunn