I stumbled upon this very interesting site which may be of interest to
some MAs, particularly those who train with lethal weapons. It is a
site dedicated to the study of the psychology of learning to kill.

Interesting stuff.

http://www.killology.com

Hal

From:	lklawson at my-deja.com
Subject:	Re: Killology: The psychological cost of learning to kill
Date:	20 Jan 2005 09:13:44 -0800

h...@nospam.com wrote:
> On 20 Jan 2005 08:13:34 -0800, lklawson@my-deja.com wrote:

> >> http://www.killology.com
> >
> >Not much actual information there on the website. Looks like just a
> >marketoid site, actually.
>
> Actually there are quite a few interesting articles. Go to Site Map,
> Publications, Articles. He also has interesting stuff on history of
> weapons, operant conditioning etc.
>
> Hal

Yeah. I missed those on first glance. After Matthew mentioned the
link I went back and hit the Site Map.

(IH)

From:	lklawson at my-deja.com
Subject:	Re: Killology: The psychological cost of learning to kill
Date:	21 Jan 2005 06:32:57 -0800

hal@nospam.com wrote:

> > >So ignore the marketoid and read the articles. There are many very
> > >interesting points raised.
> >
> >Pepper in a few examples of the points you find interesting.
>

[snip entry paragraphs of several articles]

Those are a bunch of *articles* hal. What are the *POINTS* that you
"find interesting?"

> this raises the point of the forgotten veteran, who, because he comes
> home with all his limbs, comes home well in the eyes of the nation.
> Most are not well.

That's almost a point.

> The most interesting part about this is that it
> was written by a career military man. Someone who probably actually
> knows.
>
> Hal

That's A) not a point, and B) an assumption on your part.

Here's an example. In his article on 'are we training children to be
killers' his point (and Conclusion) is that "yes, we are" and as
supporting evidence (among others) he states that there are more peer
reviewed studies and hard data linking media violence to youth violence
then there are linking tobaco use to cancer. The sub-points being
illustrated at the time being that yes we are training killers through
emotional desensitization and classical conditioning using mass media
entertainment, that the Media at large participates with full knowledge
of their roll and the effects, and that there is likely to be a
fundamental social shift coming in the near future.

You can't just post a bunch of first paragraph excerpts from a bunch of
articles and say that you're posting "many very interesting points."
(IH)

From:	lklawson at my-deja.com
Subject:	Re: Killology: The psychological cost of learning to kill
Date:	20 Jan 2005 08:13:34 -0800

h...@nospam.com wrote:
> I stumbled upon this very interesting site which may be of interest
to
> some MAs, particularly those who train with lethal weapons. It is a
> site dedicated to the study of the psychology of learning to kill.
>
> Interesting stuff.
>
> http://www.killology.com

Not much actual information there on the website. Looks like just a
marketoid site, actually.

Anyhow, I suspect that most of the information that could be gathered
from these people is the same sort that could be gathered from most
Firearms related 'zines on the subject as well as some places on the
'net or some basic psych classes that include info on desensitization,
dehumanization, justification, and distancing techniques.

(IH)

From:	Matthew Weigel
Subject:	Re: Killology: The psychological cost of learning to kill
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:31:30 -0600

lklawson@my-deja.com wrote:

> Not much actual information there on the website. Looks like just a
> marketoid site, actually.

It links to ESR's "The Myth of Man the Killer," though. It's a pretty
decent read on the basics (i.e., not dealing with the after effects, but
trying to prove a legitimate case that psychological changes are
required before a person can kill), aside from beauts like the "strike
of a martial artist, who (having learned to override instinct) can
easily kill with one blow."

From:	Bryce
Subject:	Re: Killology: The psychological cost of learning to kill
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:42:46 -0800

"Matthew Weigel" wrote in message
news:10uvn785v5p7a41@news.supernews.com...
> lklawson@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> Not much actual information there on the website. Looks like just a
>> marketoid site, actually.
>
> It links to ESR's "The Myth of Man the Killer," though. It's a pretty
> decent read on the basics (i.e., not dealing with the after effects, but
> trying to prove a legitimate case that psychological changes are required
> before a person can kill), aside from beauts like the "strike of a martial
> artist, who (having learned to override instinct) can easily kill with one
> blow."

Which is why you should never get blown by a martial artist.

From:	hal at nospam.com
Subject:	Re: Killology: The psychological cost of learning to kill
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:29:43 -0700

On 20 Jan 2005 08:13:34 -0800, lklawson@my-deja.com wrote:

>
>h...@nospam.com wrote:
>> I stumbled upon this very interesting site which may be of interest
>to
>> some MAs, particularly those who train with lethal weapons. It is a
>> site dedicated to the study of the psychology of learning to kill.
>>
>> Interesting stuff.
>>
>> http://www.killology.com
>
>Not much actual information there on the website. Looks like just a
>marketoid site, actually.

Actually there are quite a few interesting articles. Go to Site Map,
Publications, Articles. He also has interesting stuff on history of
weapons, operant conditioning etc.

Hal

BEHAVIORAL PSYCHOLOGY is the subset of psychology that focuses on
studying and modifying observable behavior by means of systematic
manipulation of environmental factors. This article examines the
history and origins of behavioral psychology, the role of behavioral
psychology in creating a revolution in military training and combat
effectiveness during the second half of the 20th century, and the
contributions of behavioral psychology in helping to understand one of
the key causal factors in modern violent crime.

Introduction: A Behavioral Revolution in Combat..........Behavioral
psychology, with its subsets of behavior modification and operant
conditioning, is a field that's ripe for use and abuse in the realms
of violence, peace, and conflict.
The Birth of Behavioral Psychology..........The "Law of Effect," which
essentially states that responses that are accompanied or followed by
satisfaction (i.e., a reward, or what was later to be termed a
reinforcement) will be more likely to reoccur, and those which are
accompanied by discomfort (i.e., a punishment) will be less likely to
reoccur.
The Problem: A Resistance to Killing..........In behavioral terms, to
prepare (train or condition) a soldier to kill, the stimulus (which
did not appear in their training) should have been an enemy soldier in
their sights
The Behavioral Solution: Conditioning to Kill..........It is crucial
that the discriminative stimulus used in training be as realistic as
possible in its simulation of the actual, anticipated stimulus if the
training is to be transferred to reality in a crucial, life-and-death
situation.
Conditioning Kids to Kill..........Through violent programming on
television and in movies, and through interactive point-and-shoot
video games, the developed nations are indiscriminately introducing to
their children the same weapons technology that major armies and law
enforcement agencies around the world use to "turn off" the midbrain
"safety catch".
Conclusion: The Future of Violence, Society, and
Behaviorism..........In a world of violent crime, in a world in which
children around the globe are being casually

>
>Anyhow, I suspect that most of the information that could be gathered
>from these people is the same sort that could be gathered from most
>Firearms related 'zines on the subject as well as some places on the
>'net or some basic psych classes that include info on desensitization,
>dehumanization, justification, and distancing techniques.
>
>(IH)

From:	lklawson at my-deja.com
Subject:	Re: Killology: The psychological cost of learning to kill
Date:	20 Jan 2005 11:30:21 -0800

h...@nospam.com wrote:

> So ignore the marketoid and read the articles. There are many very
> interesting points raised.
>
> Hal
Pepper in a few examples of the points you find interesting.

(IH)

From:	hal at nospam.com
Subject:	Re: Killology: The psychological cost of learning to kill
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:26:46 -0700

On 20 Jan 2005 11:30:21 -0800, lklawson@my-deja.com wrote:

>h...@nospam.com wrote:
>
>> So ignore the marketoid and read the articles. There are many very
>> interesting points raised.
>>
>> Hal
>Pepper in a few examples of the points you find interesting.

http://www.killology.com/article_islamic.htm

"Islamic Zealots, Corporate Predators, and the Attack on Democracy: A
Moral Perspective On Our Current State of Affairs "

By Dave Grossman

The past year (2002) has seen America's values attacked on two fronts:
By freedom hating Islamic zealots, and by freedom abusing corporate
predators. In light of these two extremes, many Americans are
confused, and feel like we are fighting a two front war. What's the
cause of this? Can American philosophy survive?

First, we must understand that this moral calamity is not new. Our
problems are the problems of human moral development, as illustrated
by the research of Lawrence Kohlberg (1927-1987). A professor at
Harvard University, Kohlberg tracked "moral reasoning" in response to
hypothetical moral dilemmas. He was not concerned with WHAT people
did, but focused attention on WHY they chose a course of action. He
established 6 levels of motivation, from lowest to highest:

http://www.killology.com/article_weaponry.htm

"Evolution of Weaponry"

By Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

Humans have proven themselves to be infinitely ingenious at creating
and using devices to overcome their limitations. From one perspective
human history can be seen as a series of ever-more-efficient devices
to help humans communicate, travel, trade, work, and even to think.
Similarly, the history of violence, peace, and conflict can be seen as
the history, or the evolution, of a series of ever-more-efficient
devices to enable humans to kill and dominate their fellow human
beings.

http://www.killology.com/article_agress&viol.htm

"Aggression and Violence"

By Dave Grossman

To understand the nature of aggression and violence on the
battlefield, it must first be recognized that most participants in
close combat are literally "frightened out of their wits." Once the
bullets start flying, most combatants stop thinking with the forebrain
(that portion of the brain that makes us human) and start thinking
with the midbrain (the primitive portion of our brain, which is
indistinguishable from that of an animal).

In conflict situations, this primitive, midbrain processing can be
observed in the existence of a powerful resistance to killing one's
own kind. Animals with antlers and horns slam together in a relatively
harmless head-to-head fashion, and piranha fish fight their own kind
with flicks of the tail, but against any other species these creatures
unleash their horns and teeth without restraint. This is an essential
survival mechanism that prevents a species from destroying itself
during territorial and mating rituals.

and this is probably my favorite:

http://www.killology.com/art_psych_intro.htm

"Psychological Effects of Combat"

Introduction: A Legacy of Lies

An examination of the psychological effects of combat must begin by
acknowledging that there are some positive aspects to combat.
Throughout recorded history these positive aspects have been
emphasized and exaggerated in order to protect the self-image of
combatants, to honor the memory of the fallen and rationalize their
deaths, to aggrandize and glorify political leaders and military
commanders, and to manipulate populations into supporting war and
sending their sons to their deaths. But the fact that these positive
aspects have been manipulated and exploited does not deny their
existence. There is a reason for the powerful attraction of combat
over the centuries, and there is no value in going from the
dysfunctional extreme of glorifying war to the equally dysfunctional
extreme of denying its attraction.

The ability to recognize and confront danger, the powerful group
bonding that occurs in times of stress, the awe-inspiring spectacle of
a nation focused and aligned to achieve a single aim, selfless
dedication to abstract concepts and goals, and the ability to overcome
the powerful imperatives of the survival instinct and willingly die
for others: these common aspects of war represent both important
survival traits and a potentially positive comment on basic human
nature. But if war does have a capacity for reflecting some usually
hidden, positive aspects of humanity, it irrefutably does so at a
great and tragic cost.

One obvious and tragic price of war is the toll of death and
destruction. But there is an additional cost, a psychological cost
borne by the survivors of combat, and a full understanding of this
cost has been too long repressed by a legacy of self-deception and
intentional misrepresentation. After peeling away this "legacy of
lies" that has perpetuated and glorified warfare there is no escaping
the conclusion that combat, and the killing that lies at the heart of
combat, is an extraordinarily traumatic and psychologically costly
endeavor that profoundly impacts all who participate in it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (!!!)

This psychological cost of war is most readily observable and
measurable at the individual level. At the national level, a country
at war can anticipate a small--but statistically significant--increase
in the domestic murder rate, probably due to the glorification of
violence and the resultant reduction in the level of repression of
natural aggressive instincts which Freud held to be essential to the
existence of civilization. At the group level, even the most elite
unit is usually psychologically destroyed when between 50 and 60%
casualties have been inflicted, and the integration of the individual
into the group is so strong that this destruction often leads to
depression and suicide. However, the nation (if not eliminated by the
war) is generally resilient, and the group (if not destroyed) is
inevitably disbanded. But the individual who survives combat may well
end up paying a profound psychological cost for a lifetime. The
cumulative impact of these effects on hundreds of thousands of
veterans is pervasive, with significant potential to have a profound
effect on society at large.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

this raises the point of the forgotten veteran, who, because he comes
home with all his limbs, comes home well in the eyes of the nation.
Most are not well. The most interesting part about this is that it
was written by a career military man. Someone who probably actually
knows.

Hal

>
>(IH)

From:	Shuurai
Subject:	Re: Killology: The psychological cost of learning to kill
Date:	20 Jan 2005 10:05:31 -0800

> > >Not much actual information there on the website. Looks like
> > >just a marketoid site, actually.
> >
> > Actually there are quite a few interesting articles. Go to
> > Site Map, Publications, Articles. He also has interesting
> > stuff on history of weapons, operant conditioning etc.
> >
> > Hal
>
> Yeah. I missed those on first glance. After Matthew mentioned the
> link I went back and hit the Site Map.
Looks like just a marketoid site with links to some good articles.

From:	hal at nospam.com
Subject:	Re: Killology: The psychological cost of learning to kill
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:22:07 -0700

On 20 Jan 2005 10:05:31 -0800, "Shuurai"
wrote:

>
>> > >Not much actual information there on the website. Looks like
>> > >just a marketoid site, actually.
>> >
>> > Actually there are quite a few interesting articles. Go to
>> > Site Map, Publications, Articles. He also has interesting
>> > stuff on history of weapons, operant conditioning etc.
>> >
>> > Hal
>>
>> Yeah. I missed those on first glance. After Matthew mentioned the
>> link I went back and hit the Site Map.
>Looks like just a marketoid site with links to some good articles.

So ignore the marketoid and read the articles. There are many very
interesting points raised.

Hal