http://tinyurl.com/4kwfz

PORTLAND, Maine (AP) -- Mike Cullinan made a midlife course correction,
breaking up with his girlfriend and buying himself a big Harley-Davidson
motorcycle: a 620-pound Dyna Low Rider with a 1,450-cc, fuel-injected
engine.

Lots of baby boomers and middle-aged Americans like the 38-year-old Cullinan
are getting motorcycles, whether to recapture their lost youth or pull
through some kind of midlife crisis.

And now, as a result, riders 40 and over are accounting for an alarming
number of motorcycling deaths.

Safety experts suspect older riders with a lot of disposable income are
buying more machine than their aging, out-of-practice bodies can handle.

Across the country, the annual number of motorcycle fatalities among 40-plus
riders tripled over the past decade to 1,674 in 2003, while deaths among
riders under 30 dropped slightly to 1,161, according to the National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration.

According to NHTSA, the average age of motorcyclists killed in accidents
rose from 32 in 1994 to 38 in 2003.

"It's really kind of astonishing. The ages of these fatalities are so high.
You would think it would be all of the young kids on those fast bikes, but
it's not," said Carl Hallman, highway safety coordinator with the Maine
Department of Public Safety.

The surge in deaths among older riders helped to push motorcycle fatalities
higher overall. They jumped by nearly half during the past five years, from
2,483 in 1999 to 3,661 in 2003.

In Maine, 22 people were killed on motorcycles in 2004, the highest level in
a decade. In New Hampshire, 29 died, versus nine the year before. In
Vermont, there were 11 fatal crashes, more than in the three previous years
combined.

In all three states, riders in their 30s and older accounted for the most
crashes.

"From a career standpoint, they have a little extra time and a little extra
disposable income. The kids have grown up, so they're looking for hobbies,"
said Rae Tyson, a NHTSA spokesman who specializes in motorcycle safety.

As for why so many riders in their 40s, 50s and beyond are dying, big,
powerful bikes appear to be part of the explanation. NHTSA data show that
both engine size and deaths among riders with the largest class of engines
rose during the past decade.

NHTSA figures also show that riders in their 30s and 40s who died were more
likely than their younger counterparts to have been drinking.

Rusty or unskilled riders
In addition, safety experts say many older riders are either returning to
motorcycling after many years or are trying it for the first time.

"They haven't ridden in 20 or 30 years, so their skills are rusty.
Motorcycles have changed, and they're getting bigger motorcycles. And
they're getting on without a refresher course," said Cathy Rimm, program
director for Motorcycle Rider Education of Maine, a nonprofit organization
that offers safety training.

Finally, safety officials point out that older riders' eyesight and reflexes
are not what they once were.

"In our experienced-rider courses, we do take into account the way your body
changes, that your reaction time will change and that your eyesight will
change. There are changes older riders should make," said Mike Mount,
spokesman for the Motorcycle Safety Foundation in Irvine, California.

Cullinan, a repair shop manager from Standish, had not ridden for 15 years,
and his life underwent a big change when he broke off a relationship. He
spent more than $18,000 on his black low rider with chrome.

"I went for the largest bike I could handle, or that I hope I can handle,"
he said.

Though Maine and many other states require classes for new riders to get
motorcycle licenses, there are no such requirements for a license holder who
decides to get on a bike for the first time in decades. No state requires
continuing periodic education, said Kathy Van Kleeck of the Motorcycle
Safety Foundation.

Cullinan said his eyes were opened by the statistics. He has bought a
helmet, which is not required in Maine, and is taking a refresher course
this winter.

"I'm hoping I will learn something that'll make me safer," he said. "I'll be
riding this spring and summer with my eyes open."

--
"Wakko" Waco Glenn NTXNS TOMKAT SENS
'03 FLSTSI - "BlingBling" (The rare pigs reign)
CRABB'04 MAMBM'04 VERMORT14 PHS'04
"Even a bad day on the bike is better than the best day in a car."

From:	Wakko
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:50:33 -0600

"Wakko" wrote in message
news:yt2dnf_KIs64CWzcRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> http://tinyurl.com/4kwfz

> As for why so many riders in their 40s, 50s and beyond are dying, big,
> powerful bikes appear to be part of the explanation. NHTSA data show that
> both engine size and deaths among riders with the largest class of engines
> rose during the past decade.

I posted this because I smell bullshit.

--
"Wakko" Waco Glenn NTXNS TOMKAT SENS
'03 FLSTSI - "BlingBling" (The rare pigs reign)
CRABB'04 MAMBM'04 VERMORT14 PHS'04
"Even a bad day on the bike is better than the best day in a car."

From:	James Wilson
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:11:53 GMT

bigtime bullshit...wonder what the real figures are?
JC

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:50:33 -0600, "Wakko"
wrote:

>"Wakko" wrote in message
>news:yt2dnf_KIs64CWzcRVn-qw@comcast.com...
>> http://tinyurl.com/4kwfz
>
>> As for why so many riders in their 40s, 50s and beyond are dying, big,
>> powerful bikes appear to be part of the explanation. NHTSA data show that
>> both engine size and deaths among riders with the largest class of engines
>> rose during the past decade.
>
>
>I posted this because I smell bullshit.

From:	Chuck Rhode
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:45:01 -0600

James Wilson wrote this on Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:11:53 +0000. My reply is
below.

> bigtime bullshit...wonder what the real figures are?

> According to NHTSA, the average age of motorcyclists killed in
> accidents rose from 32 in 1994 to 38 in 2003.

Here're my calculations. I don't see an average. Do you see an
average?

> 2003 Motorcycle Fatalities (NHTSA FARS)
>
> Age Count
> 7 1 :
> 8 1 :
> 9 0 :
> 10 5 :
> 11 3 :
> 12 4 :
> 13 0 :
> 14 6 :
> 15 3 :
> 16 10 :
> 17 26 :*
> 18 48 :**
> 19 82 :****
> 20 99 :****
> 21 113 :*****
> 22 125 :******
> 23 92 :****
> 24 87 :****
> 25 73 :***
> 26 83 :****
> 27 86 :****
> 28 83 :****
> 29 75 :***
> 30 81 :****
> 31 76 :***
> 32 97 :****
> 33 79 :***
> 34 75 :***
> 35 90 :****
> 36 69 :***
> 37 69 :***
> 38 84 :****
> 39 87 :****
> 40 79 :***
> 41 85 :****
> 42 107 :*****
> 43 100 :*****
> 44 96 :****
> 45 85 :****
> 46 85 :****
> 47 72 :***
> 48 89 :****
> 49 71 :***
> 50 69 :***
> 51 65 :***
> 52 65 :***
> 53 60 :***
> 54 63 :***
> 55 66 :***
> 56 61 :***
> 57 42 :**
> 58 30 :*
> 59 38 :*
> 60 20 :*
> 61 29 :*
> 62 21 :*
> 63 11 :
> 64 13 :
> 65 20 :*
> 66 11 :
> 67 3 :
> 68 12 :
> 69 7 :
> 70 5 :
> 71 7 :
> 72 14 :
> 73 4 :
> 74 1 :
> 75 2 :
> 76 1 :
> 77 1 :
> 78 4 :
> 79 0 :
> 80 2 :
> 81 0 :
> 82 0 :
> 83 2 :
> 84 1 :
> 85 0 :
> 86 0 :
> 87 0 :
> 88 1 :
> 89 0 :
> 90 0 :
> 91 0 :
> 92 0 :
> 93 0 :
> 94 1 :
> 95 0 :
> 96 0 :
> 97 0 :
> 98 0 :
> 99 1 :
>
> TOTAL: 3534
> Mean Age: 38.13
> Median Age: 38
> Mode Age: 22

--
... Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI
... 1979 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Geraldine)
... 1978 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Fenris)
... http://www.excel.net/~crhode/RockyGnashtoothsWeather/
... 21°F. Wind SSE 12 mph. Cloudy. Light snow. Mist.

From:	Chuck Rhode
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:09:16 -0600

Chuck Rhode wrote this on Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:45:01 -0600. My reply
is below.

Oops. The above stats list one 99-year-old motorcycle traffic
fatality. That's not right. The 99-code indicates an unknown age.
Sorry.

--
... Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI
... 1979 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Geraldine)
... 1978 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Fenris)
... http://www.excel.net/~crhode/RockyGnashtoothsWeather/
... 19°F. Wind NE 22 mph. Cloudy. Light snow. Freezing fog.

From:	Wakko
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:26:26 -0600

"Chuck Rhode" wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.22.17.09.13.457367@excel.net...
> Oops. The above stats list one 99-year-old motorcycle traffic
> fatality. That's not right. The 99-code indicates an unknown age.
> Sorry.

Well fuck! What code am I gonna use for 99 year olds now? This will not
stand.
--
"Wakko" Waco Glenn NTXNS TOMKAT SENS
'03 FLSTSI - "BlingBling" (The rare pigs reign)
CRABB'04 MAMBM'04 VERMORT14 PHS'04
"Even a bad day on the bike is better than the best day in a car."

From:	Chuck Rhode
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:33:20 -0600

Wakko wrote this on Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:26:26 -0600. My reply is
below.

> "Chuck Rhode" wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.01.22.17.09.13.457367@excel.net...

>> Oops. The above stats list one 99-year-old motorcycle traffic
>> fatality. That's not right. The 99-code indicates an unknown age.
>> Sorry.

> Well fuck! What code am I gonna use for 99 year olds now? This will
> not stand.

Actually, the instruction manual says to code anyone over 97 as 97.

--
... Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI
... 1979 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Geraldine)
... 1978 Honda Goldwing GL1000 (Fenris)
... http://www.excel.net/~crhode/RockyGnashtoothsWeather/
... 12°F. Wind N 15 mph. Cloudy.

From:	moto
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 04:22:41 -0500

Wakko ...
Kinda funny you mention CNN. Just today they said motorcyclists are 30
times more apt to be killed in an accident than in a car accident.

I wonder how much truth there is in that?

moto
yer fiend in deerburn hits ...

Dyslexics untie.

'05 750 Spirit...
'02 750 Ace...
'01 750 Magna...

From:	Wakko
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:15:45 -0600

"moto" wrote in message
news:1065-41F36CE1-2@storefull-3278.bay.webtv.net...
> Wakko ...
> Kinda funny you mention CNN. Just today they said motorcyclists are 30
> times more apt to be killed in an accident than in a car accident.
>
> I wonder how much truth there is in that?

That's a shocker. I wonder what they will print next? Motorcycles inherently
more unstable than cars. Studies indicate that two wheeled vehicles fall
over at a much higher rate than automobiles.
--
"Wakko" Waco Glenn NTXNS TOMKAT SENS
'03 FLSTSI - "BlingBling" (The rare pigs reign)
CRABB'04 MAMBM'04 VERMORT14 PHS'04
"Even a bad day on the bike is better than the best day in a car."

From:	moto
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:54:48 -0500

Wakko imparts: (in part)
"Studies indicate that two wheeled vehicles fall over at a much higher
rate than automobiles."

Who knew?
That's what I like about this place. You can learn stuff that'll knock
yer socks off.

moto
yer fiend in deerburn hits ...

Dyslexics untie.

'05 750 Spirit...
'02 750 Ace...
'01 750 Magna...

From:	Tim
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:29:30 -0500

moto wrote:
>
> Wakko imparts: (in part)
> "Studies indicate that two wheeled vehicles fall over at a much higher
> rate than automobiles."
>
> Who knew?
> That's what I like about this place. You can learn stuff that'll knock
> yer socks off.

i never wear socks while reading reeky. that way, i avoid having my socks
knocked off. but then, i am a VERY experienced reeky user, having been right
here for, like, nine years.

timmie

From:	The Family
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:02:23 GMT

I think it's really a conspiratorial effort among Harley & Bush, to
trim the Social InSecurity benefit recipients.

Janklow will be called upon in a consultancy role, as the trimming
continues.

"Yeah, that's it"....

Gary Walker

"Wakko" wrote in message
news:I-mdnc20ZdIRCGzcRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> "Wakko" wrote in message
> news:yt2dnf_KIs64CWzcRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> > http://tinyurl.com/4kwfz
>
> > As for why so many riders in their 40s, 50s and beyond are dying, big,
> > powerful bikes appear to be part of the explanation. NHTSA data show
that
> > both engine size and deaths among riders with the largest class of
engines
> > rose during the past decade.
>
>
> I posted this because I smell bullshit.
>
> --
> "Wakko" Waco Glenn NTXNS TOMKAT SENS
> '03 FLSTSI - "BlingBling" (The rare pigs reign)
> CRABB'04 MAMBM'04 VERMORT14 PHS'04
> "Even a bad day on the bike is better than the best day in a car."
>
>

From:	Calgary
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:23:05 GMT

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:44:36 -0600, "Wakko"
wrote:

>http://tinyurl.com/4kwfz
>
>PORTLAND, Maine (AP) -- Mike Cullinan made a midlife course correction,
>breaking up with his girlfriend and buying himself a big Harley-Davidson
>motorcycle: a 620-pound Dyna Low Rider with a 1,450-cc, fuel-injected
>engine.
>
>Lots of baby boomers and middle-aged Americans like the 38-year-old Cullinan
>are getting motorcycles, whether to recapture their lost youth or pull
>through some kind of midlife crisis.
>
>And now, as a result, riders 40 and over are accounting for an alarming
>number of motorcycling deaths.
>
>Safety experts suspect older riders with a lot of disposable income are
>buying more machine than their aging, out-of-practice bodies can handle.
>
>Across the country, the annual number of motorcycle fatalities among 40-plus
>riders tripled over the past decade to 1,674 in 2003, while deaths among
>riders under 30 dropped slightly to 1,161, according to the National Highway
>Traffic Safety Administration.
>
>According to NHTSA, the average age of motorcyclists killed in accidents
>rose from 32 in 1994 to 38 in 2003.

We see these articles pop up from time to time and while there may be
empirical data to support the assertion older riders are getting into
more accidents. On closer examination maybe it is just that riders
are getting older. The example in the paragraph quoted above relates
to almost exactly the same group of riders, but they got older. I am
52 and have been riding since I was 16. Over those years there might
have been three years I did not have a bike. So if I die tomorrow on
my bike (no cheering from the gallery)the stats show another aging
baby boomer crashed and burned with no reference to the many years of
relatively safe riding.

Bottom line as the baby boomers get older, riders get older and it
will be reflected in the stats.

Judging from the many friends I have ridden with over the years (three
who died as a result of bike accidents), the most dangerous time for
any rider is their first three years. Inexperience, lack of formal
training and having more guts than brains makes for a dangerous pilot.
Survive those three years, some by pure blind luck like me, and others
who had the wisdom to seek proper training and your chances of
survival are much improved.

Your Friend in Calgary
Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

From:	Wakko
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:29:58 -0600

"Calgary" wrote in message
news:pe63v0hlm7906gbu2j88tsl83lmce2o8jf@4ax.com...

> We see these articles pop up from time to time and while there may be
> empirical data to support the assertion older riders are getting into
> more accidents. On closer examination maybe it is just that riders
> are getting older. The example in the paragraph quoted above relates
> to almost exactly the same group of riders, but they got older. I am
> 52 and have been riding since I was 16. Over those years there might
> have been three years I did not have a bike. So if I die tomorrow on
> my bike (no cheering from the gallery)the stats show another aging
> baby boomer crashed and burned with no reference to the many years of
> relatively safe riding.
>
> Bottom line as the baby boomers get older, riders get older and it
> will be reflected in the stats.
>
> Judging from the many friends I have ridden with over the years (three
> who died as a result of bike accidents), the most dangerous time for
> any rider is their first three years. Inexperience, lack of formal
> training and having more guts than brains makes for a dangerous pilot.
> Survive those three years, some by pure blind luck like me, and others
> who had the wisdom to seek proper training and your chances of
> survival are much improved.

I could not agree more.
--
"Wakko" Waco Glenn NTXNS TOMKAT SENS
'03 FLSTSI - "BlingBling" (The rare pigs reign)
CRABB'04 MAMBM'04 VERMORT14 PHS'04
"Even a bad day on the bike is better than the best day in a car."

From:	Calgary
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:38:50 GMT

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:29:58 -0600, "Wakko"
wrote:

>"Calgary" wrote in message
>news:pe63v0hlm7906gbu2j88tsl83lmce2o8jf@4ax.com...
>
>> We see these articles pop up from time to time and while there may be
>> empirical data to support the assertion older riders are getting into
>> more accidents. On closer examination maybe it is just that riders
>> are getting older. The example in the paragraph quoted above relates
>> to almost exactly the same group of riders, but they got older. I am
>> 52 and have been riding since I was 16. Over those years there might
>> have been three years I did not have a bike. So if I die tomorrow on
>> my bike (no cheering from the gallery)the stats show another aging
>> baby boomer crashed and burned with no reference to the many years of
>> relatively safe riding.
>>
>> Bottom line as the baby boomers get older, riders get older and it
>> will be reflected in the stats.
>>
>> Judging from the many friends I have ridden with over the years (three
>> who died as a result of bike accidents), the most dangerous time for
>> any rider is their first three years. Inexperience, lack of formal
>> training and having more guts than brains makes for a dangerous pilot.
>> Survive those three years, some by pure blind luck like me, and others
>> who had the wisdom to seek proper training and your chances of
>> survival are much improved.
>
>
>I could not agree more.

What's the date?

Your Friend in Calgary
Don Binns
84 - Virago 1000

You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck

http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reeky.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm

From:	High Plains Thumper
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:51:41 -0000

"Wakko" wrote in
news:ma6dnYDqwrJVA2zcRVn-1w@comcast.com:

> "Calgary" wrote ...
>

>> Judging from the many friends I have ridden with over the
>> years (three who died as a result of bike accidents), the
>> most dangerous time for any rider is their first three
>> years. Inexperience, lack of formal training and having
>> more guts than brains makes for a dangerous pilot. Survive
>> those three years, some by pure blind luck like me, and
>> others who had the wisdom to seek proper training and your
>> chances of survival are much improved.
>
> I could not agree more.

That reminds me recently in one forum, I read about a person
riding in a parking lot on her SV650 for several weeks, her
first bike. That concerns me that she must have a lot of
practice before taking it on the street. What that tells me is
that bike is more bike than what she feels adequate with.

IMHO, a first bike should be easy accelerating, easy to tool
around in and feel quite comfortable in. It should not make the
person feel uneasy with.

I get the impression there is a lot of emphasis on hormone
levels to start or restart out with a larger displacement bike,
that it is less adult to ride something smaller. And a lot of
emphasis on sales people to sell the bike that has the highest
profit motive.

- HPT

Mebbe we need more Mods and less Rockers. ;-)

From:	Wakko
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:29:29 -0600

"High Plains Thumper" wrote in message
news:Xns95E5BFE21C49Fhpt@216.168.3.44...

> That reminds me recently in one forum, I read about a person
> riding in a parking lot on her SV650 for several weeks, her
> first bike. That concerns me that she must have a lot of
> practice before taking it on the street. What that tells me is
> that bike is more bike than what she feels adequate with.
>
> IMHO, a first bike should be easy accelerating, easy to tool
> around in and feel quite comfortable in. It should not make the
> person feel uneasy with.
>
> I get the impression there is a lot of emphasis on hormone
> levels to start or restart out with a larger displacement bike,
> that it is less adult to ride something smaller. And a lot of
> emphasis on sales people to sell the bike that has the highest
> profit motive.

I really can't see that this is the type of bike that older riders are
murdering themselves on.

The story mentioned the powerful larger displacement Fat Boy.
--
"Wakko" Waco Glenn NTXNS TOMKAT SENS
'03 FLSTSI - "BlingBling" (The rare pigs reign)
CRABB'04 MAMBM'04 VERMORT14 PHS'04
"Even a bad day on the bike is better than the best day in a car."

From:	High Plains Thumper
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 03:19:33 -0000

"Wakko" wrote in
news:1rqdnTtUYeFXJ2zcRVn-rA@comcast.com:

> I really can't see that this is the type of bike that older
> riders are murdering themselves on.
>
> The story mentioned the powerful larger displacement Fat
> Boy.

I couldn't agree with you more there. To give you a better
idea, the thread was lengthy with her lack of confidence in
replies. Someone over 6 feet tall and weighing over 200 lbs
might not feel too out of place on an SV650 as a beginner bike
(although there are some that would). By the same token, take
someone who is around 135 lbs, 5'-4" or less on such a bike,
may feel a little overwhelmed. In that case something around
a 250 and 150 lbs less would be a confidence builder.

Going back to the Fat Boy, it seems the desire for youth and
having disposable income (either of which is wrong) plus an
eye for manliness (size matters) is a volatile mix.

It is better to humble one's self and ride for another day.

- HPT

From:	High Plains Thumper
Subject:	Re: From CNN.com: Death rate in overdrive for older motorcyclists
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 03:48:36 -0000

High Plains Thumper wrote in
news:Xns95E5CEC796F83hpt@216.168.3.44:

> "Wakko" wrote:
>
>> I really can't see that this is the type of bike that
>> older riders are murdering themselves on.
>>
>> The story mentioned the powerful larger displacement Fat
>> Boy.
>
> I couldn't agree with you more there. To give you a better
> idea, the thread was lengthy with her lack of confidence in
> replies. Someone over 6 feet tall and weighing over 200
> lbs might not feel too out of place on an SV650 as a
> beginner bike (although there are some that would). By the
> same token, take someone who is around 135 lbs, 5'-4" or
> less on such a bike, may feel a little overwhelmed. In
> that case something around a 250 and 150 lbs less would be
> a confidence builder.
>
> Going back to the Fat Boy, it seems the desire for youth
> and having disposable income (either of which is wrong)

My mistake, "either" should be "neither". Older I get the
more jinghammed my typing becomes.

> plus an eye for manliness (size matters) is a volatile mix.
>
> It is better to humble one's self and ride for another day.

- HPT