For the purpose of this post, I need to mention something about me -
just as a factual basis. I'm one of the many people who suffer clinical
depression and generalized anxiety disorder. It's managed, just about,
with medication.

So when I mentioned that I found my first visit to the nudist beach very
relaxing, I wasn't merely saying that it was nice, but that it was of
immense value to me. Indeed, since I've been going regularly, my general
mood has improved a lot. That's reason enough for me to keep going (and
I'm a bit concerned about what winter will bring).

But I got to wondering why it should have that effect. I mean, in the
end, all I'm doing is taking my clothes off. So then I started to
speculate on whether this goes rather deeper than simply doing something
that's somewhat away from society's norm.

I'm Caucasion. My ancestors lived in the northern parts of Europe where
the weather made the wearing of body covering essential for survival,
particularly in winter. Evolution made their skin become much paler, to
increase the ability of the body to produce its Vitamin D substitute
given the lower ultraviolet intensity, and the extent to which the skin
was covered by utlraviolet opaque clothing.

Still, clothing has its own liabilities (harbouring parasites, etc), so
for that reason, and to increase the vitamin D creation, where the
weather is reasonably clement, it makes sense for people to take their
clothes off. The way evolution seems to get these things to work, is
that it makes the adaptive behaviour provide a pleasant feeling.

So when I go the beach, and strip off, am I in fact tapping into the
evolutionary need for my ancestors to wear as little clothing as is
practical for any given situation?

One prediction my theory makes is that dark skinned people (races that
come from more equitorial parts), should be less attracted to nudism. Is
this born out?

Sylvia.

From:	Floyd Baker
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:02:19 -0500

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:01:31 +1100, Sylvia
wrote:

>For the purpose of this post, I need to mention something about me -
>just as a factual basis. I'm one of the many people who suffer clinical
>depression and generalized anxiety disorder. It's managed, just about,
>with medication.
>
>So when I mentioned that I found my first visit to the nudist beach very
>relaxing, I wasn't merely saying that it was nice, but that it was of
>immense value to me. Indeed, since I've been going regularly, my general
>mood has improved a lot. That's reason enough for me to keep going (and
>I'm a bit concerned about what winter will bring).
>
>But I got to wondering why it should have that effect. I mean, in the
>end, all I'm doing is taking my clothes off. So then I started to
>speculate on whether this goes rather deeper than simply doing something
>that's somewhat away from society's norm.
>
>I'm Caucasion. My ancestors lived in the northern parts of Europe where
>the weather made the wearing of body covering essential for survival,
>particularly in winter. Evolution made their skin become much paler, to
>increase the ability of the body to produce its Vitamin D substitute
>given the lower ultraviolet intensity, and the extent to which the skin
>was covered by utlraviolet opaque clothing.
>
>Still, clothing has its own liabilities (harbouring parasites, etc), so
>for that reason, and to increase the vitamin D creation, where the
>weather is reasonably clement, it makes sense for people to take their
>clothes off. The way evolution seems to get these things to work, is
>that it makes the adaptive behaviour provide a pleasant feeling.
>
>So when I go the beach, and strip off, am I in fact tapping into the
>evolutionary need for my ancestors to wear as little clothing as is
>practical for any given situation?
>
>One prediction my theory makes is that dark skinned people (races that
>come from more equitorial parts), should be less attracted to nudism. Is
>this born out?
>
>Sylvia.

Yes... I have read that blacks are not very inclined to become
nudists...

There are a few of course, but the blacks I know are not into it.
They know I'm a nudist but they just don't care either way. I have
heard it thought to be a mind thing, them escaping their 'past' and
such, but that's caucasian thinking for sure... I like your theory
better.

Floyd

Please visit my website at www.cheef.com/buffaloskin/

* Learn about the lifestyle *

From:	Molly Wilson
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:38:31 -0600

Sylvia...may be there will be an exact science about folks wanting to
expose their crotch in public.....some day......in the meantime try
going to the beach with gym shorts and no underwear and see if you get
the same feeling....to study this matter means we gotta get all the way
to the crotch somehow or another.....that is all that is different than
being into textile conformity....and then also anxiety surrounding this
blatant excursion could momentarily let your manic depression subside
somewhat.....let us know......jonZeee

From:	Sylvia
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:48:23 +1100

Molly Wilson wrote:

> Sylvia...may be there will be an exact science about folks wanting to
> expose their crotch in public.....some day......in the meantime try
> going to the beach with gym shorts and no underwear and see if you get
> the same feeling....to study this matter means we gotta get all the way
> to the crotch somehow or another.....that is all that is different than
> being into textile conformity....and then also anxiety surrounding this
> blatant excursion could momentarily let your manic depression subside
> somewhat.....let us know......jonZeee
>

Usual mostly unintelligble stuff from JonZee.

I did not state that I was manic-depressive - I do not have a noticeable
manic phase.

Sylvia.

From:	Don
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:17:13 GMT

Molly Wilson wrote:
>
> Sylvia...may be there will be an exact science about folks wanting to
> expose their crotch in public.....some day......in the meantime try
> going to the beach with gym shorts and no underwear and see if you get
> the same feeling....to study this matter means we gotta get all the way
> to the crotch somehow or another.....that is all that is different than
> being into textile conformity....and then also anxiety surrounding this
> blatant excursion could momentarily let your manic depression subside
> somewhat.....let us know......jonZeee

Johnz, you really do have a crotch fetish, and it's pathetic. Anyone who
doesn't recognize that it is far more pleasant and comfortable to NOT
have something constrictive around one's hips and between one's legs
(not to mention that it allows more sunlight on the skin) is the very
antithesis of a sensuous (not sensual) person. I know that you don't
know what these words mean--suggest that you look them up, and try to
understand the distinction between them. Why do you waste our time with
your miserable bodyphobic rants? What's it to you if it feels good to us
to be naked?

--Don

From:	E R
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:44:41 -0600

Some things you might want to look into. I think that Julian Whitaker
http://www.drwhitaker.com wrote that in winter the UV intensity was not
great enough to help IIRC. That would mean that we lighter skinned ones
would need to get enough sun in the months in which the sun is more
direct. Some other doctors' sites are http://www.drdavidwilliams.com (of
"READ THIS OR DIE" fame) and http://www.drsinatra.com . Maybe they have
something. I have not checked. I used to get Williams' newsletter and
Whitaker's.

The guy who promoted Coral Calcium on TV, Robert Barefoot, has a site at
http://www.CureAmerica.net . He thought that black folks had more cancer
the less sun they got. Inverse relationship. Wouldn't blacks need more
sun to make the same amount of Vitamin D?

I read some of a book titled "Evolution or Degeneration: Which?" in
which the author made the point that losing genetic potential is
degeneraion. It is not the spontaneous addition of more genetic data.

Maybe some of these new lights such as the Ott-Lite=AE and Verilux=AE
and Balanced Spectrum=AE would help folks with SAD? The most recent one
I saw advertised on TV gave a web address of http://www.ott-lite.tv
IIRC. Balanced Spectrum=AE is available from FirstStreetOnilne, the
former TechnoScout. I wonder whether Verilux and Balanced Spectrum are
derivative of the Ott LIght because the Ott Lite has a big name
researcher after which it is named, but that is guesswork on my part. I
don't know how hard it is to find out either.

Robert Barefoot also thinks that one ought to get two hours of sunlight
on the face striking the eyes wihout filtering in the way to affect
glands behind the eyes each day. I wonder whether the darkness of your
skin matters?

To beautiful single women sunning bare where I can see them once in a
while anyway,

;-)

E R

From:	Floyd Baker
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:13:57 -0500

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:44:41 -0600, nkaidou@webtv.net (E R) wrote:

>Some things you might want to look into. I think that Julian Whitaker
>http://www.drwhitaker.com wrote that in winter the UV intensity was not
>great enough to help IIRC. That would mean that we lighter skinned ones
>would need to get enough sun in the months in which the sun is more
>direct. Some other doctors' sites are http://www.drdavidwilliams.com (of
>"READ THIS OR DIE" fame) and http://www.drsinatra.com . Maybe they have
>something. I have not checked. I used to get Williams' newsletter and
>Whitaker's.
>
>The guy who promoted Coral Calcium on TV, Robert Barefoot, has a site at
>http://www.CureAmerica.net . He thought that black folks had more cancer
>the less sun they got. Inverse relationship.

Why inverse? That's what I've been saying for years... The sun helps
to prevent cancer.

>Wouldn't blacks need more sun to make the same amount of Vitamin D?

Yes.

>I read some of a book titled "Evolution or Degeneration: Which?" in
>which the author made the point that losing genetic potential is
>degeneraion. It is not the spontaneous addition of more genetic data.

I always liked losing genetic potential... Squirt!
It's only degenerate sometimes.... Like when Max does it.

>Maybe some of these new lights such as the Ott-Lite® and Verilux®
>and Balanced Spectrum® would help folks with SAD?

That's what they're designed to do, so I think they work alright.
Although they're still 'man made' which I always consider dubious.

>The most recent one
>I saw advertised on TV gave a web address of http://www.ott-lite.tv
>IIRC. Balanced Spectrum® is available from FirstStreetOnilne, the
>former TechnoScout. I wonder whether Verilux and Balanced Spectrum are
>derivative of the Ott LIght because the Ott Lite has a big name
>researcher after which it is named, but that is guesswork on my part. I
>don't know how hard it is to find out either.

Do you have a lot of lamps at home?

>Robert Barefoot also thinks that one ought to get two hours of sunlight
>on the face striking the eyes wihout filtering in the way to affect
>glands behind the eyes each day. I wonder whether the darkness of your
>skin matters?
>
>To beautiful single women sunning bare where I can see them once in a
>while anyway,
>
>;-)
>
>E R

Cheers....

Floyd

Please visit my website at www.cheef.com/buffaloskin/

* Learn about the lifestyle *

From:	Sylvia
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:32:41 +1100

Floyd Baker wrote:

> Why inverse? That's what I've been saying for years... The sun helps
> to prevent cancer.

Probably need to be clear about whether it's the overall cancer rate, or
the skin cancer rate.

Sylvia.

From:	JD
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:26:33 +1100

Sylvia wrote:

(snip)
>
> One prediction my theory makes is that dark skinned people (races that
> come from more equitorial parts), should be less attracted to nudism. Is
> this born out?
>
> Sylvia.

I think this does apply in general, although I believe it is more cultural
than genetic - the vast majority of darker skinned people have, in the
recent historical past, been dominated if not ruled by lighter skinned
people, so that a lighter skin is seen as socially superior. And if you
have a darker skin, the way to keep it as light as possible is to keep it
out of the sun. Added to this is the pressure of conformity with the
dominant western culture, which in turn is dominated by the clothes
obsessed U.S.. And the situation is getting worse. I lived in PNG in the
seventies, and then traditional dress (very little) and total nudity for
children was commonplace in most areas away from the cities, and not
uncommon even there. A visit about ten years ago showed that western dress
has largely been adopted, even in remote areas.
JD

From:	Sylvia
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:35:09 +1100

JD wrote:

> Sylvia wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
>>One prediction my theory makes is that dark skinned people (races that
>>come from more equitorial parts), should be less attracted to nudism. Is
>>this born out?
>>
>>Sylvia.
>
>
> I think this does apply in general, although I believe it is more cultural
> than genetic - the vast majority of darker skinned people have, in the
> recent historical past, been dominated if not ruled by lighter skinned
> people, so that a lighter skin is seen as socially superior. And if you
> have a darker skin, the way to keep it as light as possible is to keep it
> out of the sun. Added to this is the pressure of conformity with the
> dominant western culture, which in turn is dominated by the clothes
> obsessed U.S.. And the situation is getting worse. I lived in PNG in the
> seventies, and then traditional dress (very little) and total nudity for
> children was commonplace in most areas away from the cities, and not
> uncommon even there. A visit about ten years ago showed that western dress
> has largely been adopted, even in remote areas.
> JD

Hmm....

So to test this properly we need a culture that consists largely of dark
skinned people, with little western influence, and living where it's
too cold to go without clothes for much of the time.

Might take a while to find.

Sylvia.

From:	Floyd Baker
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 00:55:36 -0500

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:35:09 +1100, Sylvia
wrote:

>
>
>JD wrote:
>
>> Sylvia wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>>>One prediction my theory makes is that dark skinned people (races that
>>>come from more equitorial parts), should be less attracted to nudism. Is
>>>this born out?
>>>
>>>Sylvia.
>>
>>
>> I think this does apply in general, although I believe it is more cultural
>> than genetic - the vast majority of darker skinned people have, in the
>> recent historical past, been dominated if not ruled by lighter skinned
>> people, so that a lighter skin is seen as socially superior. And if you
>> have a darker skin, the way to keep it as light as possible is to keep it
>> out of the sun. Added to this is the pressure of conformity with the
>> dominant western culture, which in turn is dominated by the clothes
>> obsessed U.S.. And the situation is getting worse. I lived in PNG in the
>> seventies, and then traditional dress (very little) and total nudity for
>> children was commonplace in most areas away from the cities, and not
>> uncommon even there. A visit about ten years ago showed that western dress
>> has largely been adopted, even in remote areas.
>> JD
>
>Hmm....
>
>So to test this properly we need a culture that consists largely of dark
>skinned people, with little western influence, and living where it's
>too cold to go without clothes for much of the time.
>
>Might take a while to find.
>
>Sylvia.

I've already stopped looking...

Those jesuits have been everywhere.. :-<

Floyd

Please visit my website at www.cheef.com/buffaloskin/

* Learn about the lifestyle *

From:	E R
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:53:46 -0600

It seems to me that black folks would need more sun, not less, to make
enough Vitamin D. Robert Barefoot noted an inverse relationship in
blacks in the USA as to sun exposure and cancer: more sun, less cancer;
less sun, more cancer.

He also seemed to think that our bodies actually get energy from
sunshine, something I was not taught in school. That would make sunlight
a nutrient to us as it is to plants, right?

NICB
===========

Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.

Group: rec.nude Date: Mon, Jan 24, 2005, 1:26pm (CST+17) From:
jjd@SPAMLESS.com.au (JD)
Sylvia wrote:
(snip)
One prediction my theory makes is that dark skinned people (races that
come from more equitorial parts), should be less attracted to nudism. Is
this born out?
Sylvia.
I think this does apply in general, although I believe it is more
cultural than genetic - the vast majority of darker skinned people have,
in the recent historical past, been dominated if not ruled by lighter
skinned people, so that a lighter skin is seen as socially superior. And
if you have a darker skin, the way to keep it as light as possible is to
keep it out of the sun. Added to this is the pressure of conformity with
the dominant western culture, which in turn is dominated by the clothes
obsessed U.S.. And the situation is getting worse. I lived in PNG in the
seventies, and then traditional dress (very little) and total nudity for
children was commonplace in most areas away from the cities, and not
uncommon even there. A visit about ten years ago showed that western
dress has largely been adopted, even in remote areas. JD

From:	Sylvia
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:30:49 +1100

E R wrote:

> It seems to me that black folks would need more sun, not less, to make
> enough Vitamin D.

Yes, this is true, otherthings being equal. However, if we're looking at
the evolutionary mechanisms I was discussing, things aren't equal. The
black skinned people were living in Africa, with lots of sun, and the
pale skinned people were living in northern Europe

> He also seemed to think that our bodies actually get energy from
> sunshine, something I was not taught in school.

I'd have thought that any process that we'd evolved to convert light
into chemical energy would do so only for one part the spectrum (as
chlorophyll does in plants), and as a result we'd be a noticeable shade
of one colour (ie, what's left of the spectrum).

Since we're not, I don't see how we can be absorbing much energy that way.

Sylvia.

From:	Reginald Guy
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:10:36 GMT

"JD" wrote:
> I lived in PNG in the seventies, and then traditional dress
> (very little) and total nudity for children was commonplace
> in most areas away from the cities, and not uncommon
> even there. A visit about ten years ago showed that western
> dress has largely been adopted, even in remote areas.

And what, again, is "PNG"?

~Reggie~

From:	JD
Subject:	Re: Idle speculation on motivation to go nude.
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:44:57 +1100

Reginald Guy wrote:

> "JD" wrote:
>> I lived in PNG in the seventies, and then traditional dress
>> (very little) and total nudity for children was commonplace
>> in most areas away from the cities, and not uncommon
>> even there. A visit about ten years ago showed that western
>> dress has largely been adopted, even in remote areas.
>
>
> And what, again, is "PNG"?
>
> ~Reggie~

Papua New Guinea
JD