Carol wrote >>And in the end only bird netting works<<

Netting is always an option
but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
For them it spoils the look,
makes it hard to work in the pond,
ruins the look of tall marginals,
gets blown off,
for me it is a danger for my dogs, younger children, the squirrels
and the birds.
Herons have stabbed through nets, green herons have wriggled under
nets. If you tangle up a heron in your net and kill it you have some
serious explaining to do to the feds.
Other options DO work for other ponders so I think it is important to
list them as they DO work.
I most always list netting as an option but other options
DO WORK for other ponders.

kathy

From:	Benign Vanilla
Subject:	Re: Herons
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:09:43 -0500

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Herons
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:52:31 -0600

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
news:34legeF4b43kqU1@individual.net...
>
> "kathy" wrote in message
> news:1105559973.593705.306090@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Carol wrote >>And in the end only bird netting works<<
> >
> > Netting is always an option
> > but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
> > For them it spoils the look,
> > makes it hard to work in the pond,
> > ruins the look of tall marginals,
> > gets blown off,
> > for me it is a danger for my dogs, younger children, the squirrels
> > and the birds.
> > Herons have stabbed through nets, green herons have wriggled under
> > nets. If you tangle up a heron in your net and kill it you have some
> > serious explaining to do to the feds.
> > Other options DO work for other ponders so I think it is important to
> > list them as they DO work.
> > I most always list netting as an option but other options
> > DO WORK for other ponders.
>
> I concure. The hooting, hollering, flapping your arms, screaming while
your
> dog barks at you technique is so far working well for me.
========================
It worked for us for awhile as well. Then the herons came so early in the
morning we were still asleep. Do you ever sleep? Some learned to come at
sundown when we weren't likely out in the yard. We had better things to do
than sit at the windows from morning to night watching and guarding the
ponds. Do you pay someone to guard your pond when you're out of town or at
work? Kingfishers drop out of nowhere and all the flapping, screaming and
barking dogs will not stop them. By the time you get out the door the KF
is flying away with the fish.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }<((((((o>
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Benign Vanilla
Subject:	Re: Herons
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:04:40 -0500

"~ Windsong ~" wrote in message
news:WeydnWT9fJ0cbXjcRVn-2w@heartoftn.net...

> > I concure. The hooting, hollering, flapping your arms, screaming while
> >your dog barks at you technique is so far working well for me.

> It worked for us for awhile as well. Then the herons came so early in the
> morning we were still asleep. Do you ever sleep? Some learned to come at
> sundown when we weren't likely out in the yard. We had better things to
do
> than sit at the windows from morning to night watching and guarding the
> ponds. Do you pay someone to guard your pond when you're out of town or
at
> work? Kingfishers drop out of nowhere and all the flapping, screaming and
> barking dogs will not stop them. By the time you get out the door the KF
> is flying away with the fish.
> --

So far, so good... :)

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

From:	Katra
Subject:	Re: Herons
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 01:32:11 -0600

In article , "~ Windsong ~"
wrote:

> "Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
> news:34legeF4b43kqU1@individual.net...
> >
> > "kathy" wrote in message
> > news:1105559973.593705.306090@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > Carol wrote >>And in the end only bird netting works<<
> > >
> > > Netting is always an option
> > > but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
> > > For them it spoils the look,
> > > makes it hard to work in the pond,
> > > ruins the look of tall marginals,
> > > gets blown off,
> > > for me it is a danger for my dogs, younger children, the squirrels
> > > and the birds.
> > > Herons have stabbed through nets, green herons have wriggled under
> > > nets. If you tangle up a heron in your net and kill it you have some
> > > serious explaining to do to the feds.
> > > Other options DO work for other ponders so I think it is important to
> > > list them as they DO work.
> > > I most always list netting as an option but other options
> > > DO WORK for other ponders.
> >
> > I concure. The hooting, hollering, flapping your arms, screaming while
> your
> > dog barks at you technique is so far working well for me.
> ========================
> It worked for us for awhile as well. Then the herons came so early in the
> morning we were still asleep. Do you ever sleep? Some learned to come at
> sundown when we weren't likely out in the yard. We had better things to do
> than sit at the windows from morning to night watching and guarding the
> ponds. Do you pay someone to guard your pond when you're out of town or at
> work? Kingfishers drop out of nowhere and all the flapping, screaming and
> barking dogs will not stop them. By the time you get out the door the KF
> is flying away with the fish.

My border collie is faster than any bird, and has killed small possums
coming into the yard.

The thing is, if your dog manages to grab and kill a heron (and I know
Jewely would!) how much trouble would you be in? It's not like you meant
for it to happen, and the great blues and little greens are not an
endangered species.

I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

From:	Benign Vanilla
Subject:	Re: Herons
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:12:18 -0500

"Katra" wrote in message
news:KatraMungBean-2CEE78.01321113012005@corp.supernews.com...

> My border collie is faster than any bird, and has killed small possums
> coming into the yard.
>
> The thing is, if your dog manages to grab and kill a heron (and I know
> Jewely would!) how much trouble would you be in? It's not like you meant
> for it to happen, and the great blues and little greens are not an
> endangered species.
>
> I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
> but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
> about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?

I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
might be an issue.

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

From:	Katra
Subject:	Re: Herons
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 10:28:57 -0600

In article <34ndu2F4dshkdU1@individual.net>,
"Benign Vanilla" wrote:

> "Katra" wrote in message
> news:KatraMungBean-2CEE78.01321113012005@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > My border collie is faster than any bird, and has killed small possums
> > coming into the yard.
> >
> > The thing is, if your dog manages to grab and kill a heron (and I know
> > Jewely would!) how much trouble would you be in? It's not like you meant
> > for it to happen, and the great blues and little greens are not an
> > endangered species.
> >
> > I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
> > but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
> > about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
>
>
> I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
> crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
> might be an issue.

That's kind of the way I look at it... ;-)

Border collies are excellent guard dogs.
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

From:	Benign Vanilla
Subject:	Re: Herons
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:34:29 -0500

"Katra" wrote in message
news:KatraMungBean-D593E4.10285713012005@corp.supernews.com...

> > I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
> > crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
> > might be an issue.
>
> That's kind of the way I look at it... ;-)
>
> Border collies are excellent guard dogs.

I am not a lawyer. I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay in a Holiday
Inn Express last night. Dislaimers aside, I keep my dog well trained, and
housed in a yard with gates, and locks, etc. If a critter makes it into my
yard, and she kills it, I'd be unhappy about it, but que sera. This goes for
neighbor's pets as well. If a cat wanders into my dog's space, and the dog
nabs it (not that she could, she's a total wuss when it comes to cats) again
I'd feel bad, but I would feel no obligation to the owner.

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

From:	Andrew Burgess
Subject:	Re: Herons
Date:	Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:19:54 +0000 (UTC)

>> I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
>> but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
>> about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
>

>I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
>crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
>might be an issue.

I'd imagine that you are legally responsible for everything your dog does.

I think the penalty might be different between dog kill and gun kill
but both would be guilty.

From:	Katra
Subject:	Re: Herons
Date:	Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:00:50 -0600

In article ,
Andrew Burgess wrote:

> >> I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
> >> but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
> >> about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?
> >
>
> >I suspect you'd be in no trouble at all. Your dog in your yard? Hardly a
> >crime. Now, if you shot the bird and held it down for spot to kill, that
> >might be an issue.
>
> I'd imagine that you are legally responsible for everything your dog does.
>
> I think the penalty might be different between dog kill and gun kill
> but both would be guilty.
>

Hmmmmm... Seems like I'm going to have to call parks and wildlife to get
an answer to this one. ;-)
--
K.

Sprout the MungBean to reply

"I don't like to commit myself about heaven and hell‹you
see, I have friends in both places." --Mark Twain

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Herons
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 01:39:08 -0600

"Katra" wrote in message
news:KatraMungBean-2CEE78.01321113012005@corp.supernews.com...
>
> My border collie is faster than any bird, and has killed small possums
> coming into the yard.

## My Doberman and large mutt has killed possums too. :-(

> The thing is, if your dog manages to grab and kill a heron (and I know
> Jewely would!) how much trouble would you be in?

## Who would know?

It's not like you meant
> for it to happen, and the great blues and little greens are not an
> endangered species.

## No one would know unless you told them. Your dog killing one is not the
same as you shooting it.

> I like Herons and have rescued them and would hate to see one killed,
> but accidents can happen. I'm just wondering what the authorities feel
> about the natural instincts of certain breeds of dogs?

## You can call the Dept. of the Interior for information or the Wildlife
Service where you live.

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }<((((((o>
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Herons - nets - wrong information
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 21:47:53 -0600

"kathy" wrote in message
news:1105559973.593705.306090@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Carol wrote >>And in the end only bird netting works<<
>
> Netting is always an option
> but some people really don't want to net their ponds.
> For them it spoils the look,

## Yes it does effect the looks of the pond. But so does those tall gawky
water sprayers and wire/string strung all over the place. I didn't want to
net mine either considering they're both in front of my house. However I
was sick and tired of losing koi and GF to these predators. We did try
other methods first. Nothing worked. Perhaps other people can afford the
endless losses and don't get attached to their fish. I do. It was both an
emotional issue as well as a financial issue. When herons and King Fishers
discover your pond all you become is a feeding station for them. Also, if
you're in an area frequented by these birds you will usually (but not
always) also end up with large fish eating water snakes and bullfrogs. At
that point you may as well buy a fish hatchery.

> makes it hard to work in the pond,

## To a degree yes, but much easier then picking up the half eaten remains
of your new koi or favorite 5 year old Shubunken. Or realizing all three of
your butterfly koi are GONE when you go out to feed them.

> ruins the look of tall marginals,
> gets blown off,

## It can't get blown off if it's put on right. You don't just toss it over
the pond.

> for me it is a danger for my dogs, younger children, the squirrels
> and the birds.

## How can a net possibly be a danger to children and squirrels? Yes,
sometimes small birds will get caught. I release them. That has only
happened a few times in the last 5 years. I would rather a child fall on
the net then into the water and possibly drown. You can get around the
small bird problem as we did by putting a full clean birdbath near the pond.

> Herons have stabbed through nets,

## Herons do not STAB fish through nets or any other way. Herons GRAB the
fish with their beaks - they do not stab them!

green herons have wriggled under
> nets.

## Then the net was not installed correctly.

If you tangle up a heron in your net and kill it you have some
> serious explaining to do to the feds.

## I have never had one tangled up in the net. The net is too tight to
tangle a large bird. A small bird may get a head and wing caught. Also the
Feds do not post the "pond police" in your backyard! LOL!!! You've got to
be kidding me!!!! :-D

> Other options DO work for other ponders so I think it is important to
> list them as they DO work.

## Anyone can try anything they choose. It all depends on how much they
value their fish. Some people are more interested in the appearance their
ponds make - to each her/his own.

> I most always list netting as an option but other options
> DO WORK for other ponders.

## That depends on where they live of course,... because herons are only
ONE predator fish keepers have to contend with. I wish someone had told me
these things BEFORE I wasted my time, money and lost so many fish before
getting the nets.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~ }<((((((o>
"They laugh because I'm different, I laugh because they're all the same."
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Derek Broughton
Subject:	Re: Herons - nets - wrong information
Date:	Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:16:45 -0400

~ Windsong ~ wrote:

>> gets blown off,
>
> ## It can't get blown off if it's put on right. You don't just toss it
> ## over the pond.

Right. I've had winds that could blow _anything_ away.
>
>> Herons have stabbed through nets,
>
> ## Herons do not STAB fish through nets or any other way. Herons GRAB
> ## the fish with their beaks - they do not stab them!

That's both simplistic, and wrong. Herons strike with a stabbing motion, so
while that isn't the mechanism they use to kill fish, it's still
descriptive. In any case, Herons _have_ been known to stab fish. I don't
know if it's accidental or what, but enough people have found dead fish
with triangular holes in them to be sure that Herons do occasionally do
that.
>
> ## I have never had one tangled up in the net. The net is too tight to
> tangle a large bird. A small bird may get a head and wing caught. Also
> the
> Feds do not post the "pond police" in your backyard! LOL!!! You've got
> to be kidding me!!!! :-D

And that's an excuse, why? The Feds won't post somebody in your back yard
to make sure you aren't murdering your neighbors, either, but it would
still be wrong to do it.

--
derek