Don't let this Roy dork keep ya from postting We all love ya here. Your
advice has helped me a lot. And besides BV can handle him.

http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

From:	Lilly
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	20 Jan 2005 14:01:25 -0800

Carol & Nedra, wow, to the both of you. They are certainly tales of
caution. It's sad and sickening when you can't even trust an immediate
family member.

Sending warm wishes to you and your mothers.

Lilly

Nedra wrote:
> Thanks BV. She has no understanding of the cyber world...but she
does
> understand
> when someome wishes her well. I'll pass on your wishes to her.

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:54:53 GMT

Thank You for your warm wishes, Lilly.

This should be a cautionary tale to anyone
who has elderly parent/s and brothers and sisters to deal with. :(

Nedra

Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
"Lilly" wrote in message
news:1106258485.135865.162310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Carol & Nedra, wow, to the both of you. They are certainly tales of
> caution. It's sad and sickening when you can't even trust an immediate
> family member.
>
> Sending warm wishes to you and your mothers.
>
> Lilly
>
> Nedra wrote:
> > Thanks BV. She has no understanding of the cyber world...but she
> does
> > understand
> > when someome wishes her well. I'll pass on your wishes to her.
>

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:48:57 -0600

"Lilly" wrote in message
news:1106258485.135865.162310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Carol & Nedra, wow, to the both of you. They are certainly tales of
> caution. It's sad and sickening when you can't even trust an immediate
> family member.

## No, you can't trust family. You can't even trust that your own children
will have your best interests at heart in the end.

> Sending warm wishes to you and your mothers.

## Thanks.

> Lilly

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	San Diego Joe
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:42:13 -0800

"~ Windsong ~" wrote:

>
> "Lilly" wrote in message
> news:1106258485.135865.162310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> Carol & Nedra, wow, to the both of you. They are certainly tales of
>> caution. It's sad and sickening when you can't even trust an immediate
>> family member.
>
> ## No, you can't trust family. You can't even trust that your own children
> will have your best interests at heart in the end.
>

Sad to say that's what happens once money (and who gets it) rears its head.

San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:43:19 GMT

You know Joe ... I have thought alot about the money aspect of this whole
situation -
that isn't the issue. Momma doesn't have much money and what there is will
soon
be eaten up by the nursing home costs. With me, it was having a brother who
consistently Lied to me about Everything. I can't tolerate that.

Nedra

Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
"San Diego Joe" wrote in message
news:BE158FE5.FD9B%joe@bizqwick.com...
> "~ Windsong ~" wrote:
>
> >
> > "Lilly" wrote in message
> > news:1106258485.135865.162310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >> Carol & Nedra, wow, to the both of you. They are certainly tales of
> >> caution. It's sad and sickening when you can't even trust an immediate
> >> family member.
> >
> > ## No, you can't trust family. You can't even trust that your own
children
> > will have your best interests at heart in the end.
> >
>
> Sad to say that's what happens once money (and who gets it) rears its
head.
>
> San Diego Joe
> 4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
> Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

From:	San Diego Joe
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:12:27 -0800

"Nedra" wrote:
Wow, this is such a shame. So, you think this is just about spite or power?
I just can't envision treating someone I love like that.

Joe

> You know Joe ... I have thought alot about the money aspect of this whole
> situation -
> that isn't the issue. Momma doesn't have much money and what there is will
> soon
> be eaten up by the nursing home costs. With me, it was having a brother who
> consistently Lied to me about Everything. I can't tolerate that.
>
> Nedra
>

>> Sad to say that's what happens once money (and who gets it) rears its
>> head.
>>
>> San Diego Joe
>> 4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
>> Goldfish, a RES named Colombo and an Oscar.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:51:39 GMT

I think that not being able to trust family is just Awful!
My sons and I have talked at
length about what should be done with (my) property in Cedar Hill including
my stuff.
We agree on everything. I told them if they cross me I'll come back and
haunt them!
LOL ...
My Powers of Attorney are made out. And a Quit Claim deed to the property
has been
taken care of. Now all I have to do is take care of the ponds ... ;-)

Nedra

Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
"~ Windsong ~" wrote in message
news:y4CdneQEpoLLqG3cRVn-pA@heartoftn.net...
>
> "Lilly" wrote in message
> news:1106258485.135865.162310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Carol & Nedra, wow, to the both of you. They are certainly tales of
> > caution. It's sad and sickening when you can't even trust an immediate
> > family member.
>
> ## No, you can't trust family. You can't even trust that your own
children
> will have your best interests at heart in the end.
>
> > Sending warm wishes to you and your mothers.
>
> ## Thanks.
>
> > Lilly
>
> --
> Carol.... the frugal ponder...
> Completely FREE software:
> http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>

From:	Derek Broughton
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:53:59 -0400

Nedra wrote:

> I think that not being able to trust family is just Awful!
> My sons and I have talked at
> length about what should be done with (my) property in Cedar Hill
> including my stuff.
> We agree on everything. I told them if they cross me I'll come back and
> haunt them!
> LOL ...

Which is what _my_ mother always says, too :-)
--
derek

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:49:59 -0600

"Nedra" wrote in message
news:%6_Hd.2737$cZ1.2185@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> I think that not being able to trust family is just Awful!
> My sons and I have talked at
> length about what should be done with (my) property in Cedar Hill
including
> my stuff.
> We agree on everything. I told them if they cross me I'll come back and
> haunt them!
> LOL ...
> My Powers of Attorney are made out. And a Quit Claim deed to the property
> has been
> taken care of. Now all I have to do is take care of the ponds ... ;-)
>
> Nedra
=================
I spoke to my son this evening. My husband and myself have got to sit down
and decide what's what since we have 3 grown kids between us. We don't want
them to have any problems (especially with each other) when we either become
"helpless" or pass away.

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"People who live in glass houses should make love in the basement."
~~~~~~~ }<((((((o>
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Andy Hill
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:41:41 -0700

"Nedra" wrote:
>I think that not being able to trust family is just Awful!
>
Trust has to be earned, family or no. I have two sisters I'd trust with my
life, and a brother who I wouldn't trust with my bicycle.

From:	Derek Broughton
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:46:35 -0400

Andy Hill wrote:

> "Nedra" wrote:
>>I think that not being able to trust family is just Awful!
>>
> Trust has to be earned, family or no. I have two sisters I'd trust with
> my life, and a brother who I wouldn't trust with my bicycle.

Much the same. I'm not even that close to my sisters, but I trust them.
The brother... well he drank himself to death. And yeah I _did_ once trust
him with my bicycle. I didn't get it back.
--
derek

From:	Lt. Kizhe Catson
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:41:56 -0500

Derek Broughton wrote:
> Andy Hill wrote:
>
>
>>"Nedra" wrote:
>>
>>>I think that not being able to trust family is just Awful!
>>>
>>
>>Trust has to be earned, family or no. I have two sisters I'd trust with
>>my life, and a brother who I wouldn't trust with my bicycle.
>
>
> Much the same. I'm not even that close to my sisters, but I trust them.
> The brother... well he drank himself to death. And yeah I _did_ once trust
> him with my bicycle. I didn't get it back.

Damn, but this thread is making me glad to be a singleton ;-). Of
course, I know lots of counter-examples too: my MIL and her sis, who are
the closest of friends (partly from childhood solidarity against their
parents, who could be real PITAs); my almost-DIL and her brother; my
wife and BIL, who fought like cats & dogs when they were young, but are
now good friends (and I expect our two young men will wind up that way
once they no longer have to share living space ;-).

-- Kizhe

From:	Anne Lurie
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Sat, 15 Jan 2005 19:01:18 GMT

I agree with Joe! We miss you, Nedra!

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC

"REBEL JOE" wrote in message
news:21704-41E93F10-179@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net...
> Don't let this Roy dork keep ya from postting We all love ya here. Your
> advice has helped me a lot. And besides BV can handle him.
>
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND
>

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Sat, 15 Jan 2005 22:47:40 GMT

But
Guys ... I have been posting these last couple of days. You see I had
serious
computer (modem) problems and could Not stay connected. And then my Mom
had a stroke on 21 Dec so that has consumed alot of time.
Anyway, do not fear about Roy. He is a strange creature. Reminds me of guy
who
was on here years ago (his name was fox something )... he made vicious
attacks about my last name (Crow)...
Indian and all. My ethnic orgins are English and Scots Irish ... though
I would love to be an American Indian.

I do truly appreciate and love all of you!

Nedra in Missouri

"Anne Lurie" wrote in message
news:2MdGd.19225$fE4.3414791@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> I agree with Joe! We miss you, Nedra!
>
> Anne Lurie
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> "REBEL JOE" wrote in message
> news:21704-41E93F10-179@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net...
> > Don't let this Roy dork keep ya from postting We all love ya here. Your
> > advice has helped me a lot. And besides BV can handle him.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND
> >
>
>

From:	Benign Vanilla
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:28:59 -0500

"Nedra" wrote in message
news:g4hGd.8375$Ii4.3773@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

> And then my Mom had a stroke on 21 Dec so that has consumed alot of time.

All the best for your Mom.

--
BV
Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
http://www.iheartmypond.com
I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:21:00 GMT

Thanks BV. She has no understanding of the cyber world...but she does
understand
when someome wishes her well. I'll pass on your wishes to her.

Nedra

--
Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
news:354rqaF4jrf9qU1@individual.net...
>
> "Nedra" wrote in message
> news:g4hGd.8375$Ii4.3773@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> > And then my Mom had a stroke on 21 Dec so that has consumed alot of
time.
>
>
> All the best for your Mom.
>
>
> --
> BV
> Webporgmaster of iheartmypond.com
> http://www.iheartmypond.com
> I'll be leaning on the bus stop post.
>
>
>

From:	Bonnie
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:39:14 GMT

Benign Vanilla wrote:
> "Nedra" wrote in message
> news:g4hGd.8375$Ii4.3773@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>
>>And then my Mom had a stroke on 21 Dec so that has consumed alot of time.
>
>

From what you've mentioned about your Mom, she's made
of strong stuff. Hopefully she'll be back soon, ready
for another road trip.

--
Bonnie
NJ

From:	Ka30P
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	18 Jan 2005 18:13:25 GMT

Good thoughts for your
Mom, Nedra!

kathy

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:54:46 GMT

Oh ~ Thanks to all of you guys!

Bonnie, you are soooo right. Another road trip is what she needs. Three
days before
she had the stroke we were on our way to lunch.... 60 miles away! She felt
so good to
be in the car. Just driving down the highway ... those were the days. I'm
hoping she will
start to feel better with coming of Spring.

Nedra

Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836

"Ka30P" wrote in message
news:20050118131325.23205.00000063@mb-m01.aol.com...
> Good thoughts for your
> Mom, Nedra!
>
>
> kathy
>

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:07:10 GMT

Kathy, you and I know how positive thoughts can help an ailing person.
Thanks doll!

Nedra
--
Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"Ka30P" wrote in message
news:20050118131325.23205.00000063@mb-m01.aol.com...
> Good thoughts for your
> Mom, Nedra!
>
>
> kathy
>

From:	ah
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 03:42:04 GMT

Nedra wrote:
> But
> Guys ... I have been posting these last couple of days. You see I had
> serious
> computer (modem) problems and could Not stay connected. And then my Mom
> had a stroke on 21 Dec so that has consumed alot of time.
> Anyway, do not fear about Roy. He is a strange creature. Reminds me of guy
> who
> was on here years ago (his name was fox something )... he made vicious
> attacks about my last name (Crow)...
> Indian and all. My ethnic orgins are English and Scots Irish ... though
> I would love to be an American Indian.
>
> I do truly appreciate and love all of you!
>
> Nedra in Missouri

You are a nice person.

--ah from SW and WC Missouri

>
> "Anne Lurie" wrote in message
> news:2MdGd.19225$fE4.3414791@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>> I agree with Joe! We miss you, Nedra!
>>
>> Anne Lurie
>> Raleigh, NC
>>
>> "REBEL JOE" wrote in message
>> news:21704-41E93F10-179@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net...
>> > Don't let this Roy dork keep ya from postting We all love ya here. Your
>> > advice has helped me a lot. And besides BV can handle him.
>> >
>> > http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND
>> >
>>
>>
>
--
ah

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:44:43 GMT

Ahhhh ... another Missourian! Nice to meet you.

Nedra in Missouri

Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836

"ah" wrote in message news:golGd.687$CI6.247@trnddc06...
> Nedra wrote:
> > But
> > Guys ... I have been posting these last couple of days. You see I had
> > serious
> > computer (modem) problems and could Not stay connected. And then my Mom
> > had a stroke on 21 Dec so that has consumed alot of time.
> > Anyway, do not fear about Roy. He is a strange creature. Reminds me of
guy
> > who
> > was on here years ago (his name was fox something )... he made vicious
> > attacks about my last name (Crow)...
> > Indian and all. My ethnic orgins are English and Scots Irish ... though
> > I would love to be an American Indian.
> >
> > I do truly appreciate and love all of you!
> >
> > Nedra in Missouri
>
> You are a nice person.
>
> --ah from SW and WC Missouri
>
> >
> > "Anne Lurie" wrote in message
> > news:2MdGd.19225$fE4.3414791@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> >> I agree with Joe! We miss you, Nedra!
> >>
> >> Anne Lurie
> >> Raleigh, NC
> >>
> >> "REBEL JOE" wrote in message
> >> news:21704-41E93F10-179@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net...
> >> > Don't let this Roy dork keep ya from postting We all love ya here.
Your
> >> > advice has helped me a lot. And besides BV can handle him.
> >> >
> >> > http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> --
> ah

From:	ah
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:06:29 GMT

Nedra wrote:
> Ahhhh ... another Missourian! Nice to meet you.

Likewise.

Alas, I am not in Missouri any longer . . . I lost all rational thought one day,
and transplanted myself to Virginia!

ah (who spent many a Summer playing along the Gasconade River)

>
> [...]
--
ah

From:	Derek Broughton
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:54:04 -0400

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:54:57 GMT

Thanks Derek. Sense you asked ~ I'm still in a state of shock over Momma
due to an over-anxious
and Take Charge brother.... He moved her to a nurseing home in
Sikeston, MO ~~ it's just too upsetting to even talk about.
Thanks though for your concern.

Nedra
--
Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
news:sq6ub2-06a.ln1@othello.pointerstop.ca...
> Nedra wrote:
>
> > But
> > Guys ... I have been posting these last couple of days. You see I had
> > serious
> > computer (modem) problems and could Not stay connected. And then my Mom
> > had a stroke on 21 Dec so that has consumed alot of time.
>
> What an awful way to spend Christmas. How are you doing?
> --
> derek

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:12:51 -0600

"Nedra" wrote in message
news:ljaHd.4291$Rs.114@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Thanks Derek. Sense you asked ~ I'm still in a state of shock over Momma
> due to an over-anxious
> and Take Charge brother.... He moved her to a nurseing home in
> Sikeston, MO ~~ it's just too upsetting to even talk about.
> Thanks though for your concern.
=====================
Nedra, I understand as my brother did the same thing with my mother and
never mentioned a word about his plans until after the fact. After her last
stroke he got power of attorney from her lawyer, sold her house in NYC and
sent her to a Nursing Home in VA where no one gets to visit her. She's gone
downhill rapidly since there. It is very upsetting.....
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:00:39 GMT

Carol, I just can't figure out twisted minds. Your case is much sadder than
mine ...
I hope my brother doesn't do anymore stupid things - he will find out how
angry his older
(by 19 months) sis can get ;-)

Nedra

Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
"~ Windsong ~" wrote in message
news:ldmdnUQPkOU1zHDcRVn-gw@heartoftn.net...
>
> "Nedra" wrote in message
> news:ljaHd.4291$Rs.114@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > Thanks Derek. Sense you asked ~ I'm still in a state of shock over
Momma
> > due to an over-anxious
> > and Take Charge brother.... He moved her to a nurseing home in
> > Sikeston, MO ~~ it's just too upsetting to even talk about.
> > Thanks though for your concern.
> =====================
> Nedra, I understand as my brother did the same thing with my mother and
> never mentioned a word about his plans until after the fact. After her
last
> stroke he got power of attorney from her lawyer, sold her house in NYC and
> sent her to a Nursing Home in VA where no one gets to visit her. She's
gone
> downhill rapidly since there. It is very upsetting.....
> --
> Carol.... the frugal ponder...
> http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
> Completely FREE software:
> http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>

From:	Lt. Kizhe Catson
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:41:30 -0500

Nedra wrote:
> Carol, I just can't figure out twisted minds. Your case is much sadder than
> mine ...
> I hope my brother doesn't do anymore stupid things - he will find out how
> angry his older
> (by 19 months) sis can get ;-)

My sympathies, Nedra. Watching our parents grow old and sick is, I
think, one of the saddest things in life.

I suppose this is one of those times when being an only child is an
advantage -- there's no doubt who's supposed to hold the PofA, and make
all the decisions, and no one who will disagree. When my mother went
seriously downhill (advanced Parkinson), and Dad felt he couldn't cope
any more, he just pulled out the PofAs, and said: "Please take over."
And round we went to the banks to get my name added to the accounts, and
from then on I basically talked to the doctors, made all the decisions,
and signed everything, for both of them. But it would have been nice to
have someone else around to discuss things with. My MIL and her sis
leaned on each other in a big way, all through their Mom's declining
phase. My DW did yeoman service through the whole thing with my parents
-- basically 18 months of dealing with nursing homes, care agencies and
what-not -- but it ain't the same. It all depends on the relationship
among the siblings, I guess.

Carol: I'm a little puzzled how your bro "got power of attorney from her
lawyer". Maybe this is a difference between jurisdictions (or maybe my
parents were just better prepared) than yours, but AFAIK PofA is a
document you draw up while you're still capable, in which you name the
people you want running your life for you when you're not. That's what
my parents did, and that's what we've done for ourselves (though it
should be many years before we need to invoke them). I guess the
take-home lesson is: when making your will (and we all should!), also
have your lawyer draw up Powers of Attorney for Property and Care. Note
that a PofA can name multiple Attorneys AND specify that they must act
jointly -- that would prevent one sib unilaterally doing all sorts of
things the rest of the family won't like. You can save your kids a lot
of future friction.

-- Kizhe

>
> Nedra
>
> Lotus Garden:
> http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
> Backyard Pond:
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
> "~ Windsong ~" wrote in message
> news:ldmdnUQPkOU1zHDcRVn-gw@heartoftn.net...
>
>>"Nedra" wrote in message
>>news:ljaHd.4291$Rs.114@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>Thanks Derek. Sense you asked ~ I'm still in a state of shock over
>>
> Momma
>
>>>due to an over-anxious
>>>and Take Charge brother.... He moved her to a nurseing home in
>>>Sikeston, MO ~~ it's just too upsetting to even talk about.
>>>Thanks though for your concern.
>>
>>=====================
>>Nedra, I understand as my brother did the same thing with my mother and
>>never mentioned a word about his plans until after the fact. After her
>
> last
>
>>stroke he got power of attorney from her lawyer, sold her house in NYC and
>>sent her to a Nursing Home in VA where no one gets to visit her. She's
>
> gone
>
>>downhill rapidly since there. It is very upsetting.....
>>--
>>Carol.... the frugal ponder...
>>http://www.heartoftn.net/users/windsong/index.html
>>Completely FREE software:
>>http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>
>

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:16:35 -0600

"Lt. Kizhe Catson" wrote in message
news:41ED747A.9060403@gmail.com...
>
> Carol: I'm a little puzzled how your bro "got power of attorney from her
> lawyer".

** Her lawyer, knowing she was "confused" and not competent, had her sign
the papers giving POA to my brother. She didn't even remember signing any
papers when I spoke to her. She didn't realize she had signed her house,
her saving and her how away. I got nowhere with her lawyer. This was in
Queens NY several years ago.

Maybe this is a difference between jurisdictions (or maybe my
> parents were just better prepared) than yours, but AFAIK PofA is a
> document you draw up while you're still capable,

** Believe me - she was far from capable at the time. Her MD could prove
that! My brother went to her lawyer and had this done before my visit that
year.

in which you name the
> people you want running your life for you when you're not.

** She never did this. She thought she was going to live forever. She
never counted on having strokes (she had several).

That's what
> my parents did, and that's what we've done for ourselves (though it
> should be many years before we need to invoke them). I guess the
> take-home lesson is: when making your will (and we all should!), also
> have your lawyer draw up Powers of Attorney for Property and Care. Note
> that a PofA can name multiple Attorneys AND specify that they must act
> jointly -- that would prevent one sib unilaterally doing all sorts of
> things the rest of the family won't like. You can save your kids a lot
> of future friction.

** I agree with you 100% I'll never forgive my brother for what he did.
There was no reason to sell her house and put her in a NH hundreds of miles
from everyone she knew and cared about. It's like no one else in the family
existed! Then, coward that he is, he had his wife call and tell me where my
mother was. Everything was done secretly and behind my back. I hope I
never see him again as long as I live........
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Derek Broughton
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:50:19 -0400

~ Windsong ~ wrote:

>
> "Lt. Kizhe Catson" wrote in message
> news:41ED747A.9060403@gmail.com...
>>
>> Carol: I'm a little puzzled how your bro "got power of attorney from her
>> lawyer".
>
> ** Her lawyer, knowing she was "confused" and not competent, had her sign
> the papers giving POA to my brother. She didn't even remember signing any
> papers when I spoke to her. She didn't realize she had signed her house,
> her saving and her how away. I got nowhere with her lawyer. This was in
> Queens NY several years ago.
>
> Maybe this is a difference between jurisdictions (or maybe my
>> parents were just better prepared) than yours, but AFAIK PofA is a
>> document you draw up while you're still capable,
>
> ** Believe me - she was far from capable at the time. Her MD could prove
> that! My brother went to her lawyer and had this done before my visit
> that year.

I doubt that's legal - basically you _must_ be competent to sign a POA, and
if you're not competent the state should take guardianship if proper POAs
haven't been done beforehand. But it'd cost you an arm and a leg to fight
it, and none of it would make your Mother any healthier. If you really
wanted to fight it, though, you would have to have your _own_ lawyer - he's
never going to back down on his own after having done something
questionable.

> in which you name the
>> people you want running your life for you when you're not.
>
> ** She never did this. She thought she was going to live forever. She
> never counted on having strokes (she had several).

Yeah, that's the way it goes too often. The woman I commute with has had
her mother in and out of hospital twice in the last week, and her mother
started the "if anything happens to me" speech on Sunday. You hate to hear
it, especially when she doesn't seem to be "that" sick, but better some
time than never at all.
--
derek

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:47:40 -0600

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
news:cfo7c2-d8e.ln1@othello.pointerstop.ca...
> ~ Windsong ~ wrote:
>
> >
> > "Lt. Kizhe Catson" wrote in message
> > news:41ED747A.9060403@gmail.com...
> >>
> >> Carol: I'm a little puzzled how your bro "got power of attorney from
her
> >> lawyer".
> >
> > ** Her lawyer, knowing she was "confused" and not competent, had her
sign
> > the papers giving POA to my brother. She didn't even remember signing
any
> > papers when I spoke to her. She didn't realize she had signed her
house,
> > her saving and her how away. I got nowhere with her lawyer. This was
in
> > Queens NY several years ago.
> >
> > Maybe this is a difference between jurisdictions (or maybe my
> >> parents were just better prepared) than yours, but AFAIK PofA is a
> >> document you draw up while you're still capable,
> >
> > ** Believe me - she was far from capable at the time. Her MD could
prove
> > that! My brother went to her lawyer and had this done before my visit
> > that year.

> I doubt that's legal

## It's NOT legal but they got away with it because I couldn't afford a
lawyer to fight this lawyer and my brother. Plus I only had a week to spend
there at that time.

- basically you _must_ be competent to sign a POA, and
> if you're not competent the state should take guardianship if proper POAs
> haven't been done beforehand. But it'd cost you an arm and a leg to fight
> it,

## And they knew it!

and none of it would make your Mother any healthier. If you really
> wanted to fight it, though, you would have to have your _own_ lawyer -
he's
> never going to back down on his own after having done something
> questionable.

## This is why so many people despise lawyers. He's a heartless and
dishonest bastard and my mother trusted and knew him since 1956.

> > in which you name the
> >> people you want running your life for you when you're not.

> > ** She never did this. She thought she was going to live forever. She
> > never counted on having strokes (she had several).

> Yeah, that's the way it goes too often. The woman I commute with has had
> her mother in and out of hospital twice in the last week, and her mother
> started the "if anything happens to me" speech on Sunday. You hate to
hear
> it, especially when she doesn't seem to be "that" sick, but better some
> time than never at all.

## There you go! Before the strokes, falls and car accident my mother
avoided the subject of POW, Wills, etc. They can't face the thought that
they are old and "anything" can happen to them. After she fell down the
stairs (was hospitalized for a week) she did tell us she had purchased
catastrophic insurance, but she did not. Until the last stroke and
hit-and-run car accident, my mother was doing fine. All her health problem
were minor and she was under a Dr's care. Wills etc. were the furthest
things from her mind.......

> derek
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Lt. Kizhe Catson
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:10:09 -0500

Derek Broughton wrote:
> ~ Windsong ~ wrote:
>
>
>>"Lt. Kizhe Catson" wrote in message
>>news:41ED747A.9060403@gmail.com...
>>
>>>Carol: I'm a little puzzled how your bro "got power of attorney from her
>>>lawyer".
>>
>>** Her lawyer, knowing she was "confused" and not competent, had her sign
>>the papers giving POA to my brother. She didn't even remember signing any
>>papers when I spoke to her. She didn't realize she had signed her house,
>>her saving and her how away. I got nowhere with her lawyer. This was in
>>Queens NY several years ago.
>>
>>Maybe this is a difference between jurisdictions (or maybe my
>>
>>>parents were just better prepared) than yours, but AFAIK PofA is a
>>>document you draw up while you're still capable,
>>
>>** Believe me - she was far from capable at the time. Her MD could prove
>>that! My brother went to her lawyer and had this done before my visit
>>that year.
>
>
> I doubt that's legal -basically you _must_ be competent to sign a POA, and

Oh, I'm damned *certain* that it's not legal, and the lawyer could be
disciplined by his bar association, if it could be proved ("Aye, and
there's the rub!"). At least, that's the way it is in Ontario and I'd
be astounded if any US state was different. Not only must you be
competent, you must even have a rough idea of the value and nature of
your assets -- our lawyer asked us for one, when we made our own wills &
PoAs.

The one time I had to get my Dad to do some stuff w.r.t their PoAs, the
lawyer sent me *out* *of* *the* *room* while she talked with Dad and
satisfied herself that he was competent, and was not acting under duress.

We really like our lawyer (aside from her legal/ethical virtues, her
office is in a semi-rural house, and the office mascot is a large,
friendly, well-behaved dog, who greets you politely when you come in).

-- Kizhe

> if you're not competent the state should take guardianship if proper POAs
> haven't been done beforehand. But it'd cost you an arm and a leg to fight
> it, and none of it would make your Mother any healthier. If you really
> wanted to fight it, though, you would have to have your _own_ lawyer - he's
> never going to back down on his own after having done something
> questionable.
>
>
>>in which you name the
>>
>>>people you want running your life for you when you're not.
>>
>>** She never did this. She thought she was going to live forever. She
>>never counted on having strokes (she had several).
>
>
> Yeah, that's the way it goes too often. The woman I commute with has had
> her mother in and out of hospital twice in the last week, and her mother
> started the "if anything happens to me" speech on Sunday. You hate to hear
> it, especially when she doesn't seem to be "that" sick, but better some
> time than never at all.

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:01:22 -0600

"Lt. Kizhe Catson" wrote in message
news:41F15391.3050908@gmail.com...
> Derek Broughton wrote:
> > ~ Windsong ~ wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"Lt. Kizhe Catson" wrote in message
> >>news:41ED747A.9060403@gmail.com...
> >>
> >>>Carol: I'm a little puzzled how your bro "got power of attorney from
her
> >>>lawyer".
> >>
> >>** Her lawyer, knowing she was "confused" and not competent, had her
sign
> >>the papers giving POA to my brother. She didn't even remember signing
any
> >>papers when I spoke to her. She didn't realize she had signed her
house,
> >>her saving and her how away. I got nowhere with her lawyer. This was
in
> >>Queens NY several years ago.
> >>
> >>Maybe this is a difference between jurisdictions (or maybe my
> >>
> >>>parents were just better prepared) than yours, but AFAIK PofA is a
> >>>document you draw up while you're still capable,
> >>
> >>** Believe me - she was far from capable at the time. Her MD could
prove
> >>that! My brother went to her lawyer and had this done before my visit
> >>that year.
> >
> >
> > I doubt that's legal -basically you _must_ be competent to sign a POA,
and
>
> Oh, I'm damned *certain* that it's not legal, and the lawyer could be
> disciplined by his bar association, if it could be proved ("Aye, and
> there's the rub!").

## It wasn't legal and my brother knew it. The lawyer had to know it as
well. Just talking to her for 5 minutes would make it obvious. She didn't
know who the president was, or what day of the week it was at the time. She
didn't know if it was winter or summer. Her crooked nurse claimed she was
THERE when the lawyer came with the papers to sign. The nurse thought once
the lawyer talked to her he would not allow her to sign anything - the nurse
was wrong!

At least, that's the way it is in Ontario and I'd
> be astounded if any US state was different. Not only must you be
> competent, you must even have a rough idea of the value and nature of
> your assets -- our lawyer asked us for one, when we made our own wills &
> PoAs.

## At the time this was going on my mother didn't know whose house she was
living in. She was talking about some apartment she'd lived in as a young
girl. She had no idea what assets she had, she seemed to think she was
single and still living with her parents. It was pitiful but the papers
were signed about 2 weeks before I was able to fly there. When I confronted
this *&^%$#@ lawyer he claimed she was "competent" at the time she
signed.....

> The one time I had to get my Dad to do some stuff w.r.t their PoAs, the
> lawyer sent me *out* *of* *the* *room* while she talked with Dad and
> satisfied herself that he was competent, and was not acting under duress.

## Not all lawyers are honest. Also, who knows what my brother told this
lawyer to get him to go along with this scam. There was "bad blood" between
my bother and I from the minute my mother brought me home from the hospital.
Well, he "got even" with her and myself for my being born and taking 100% of
the attention away from him. Jealousy and rivalry gone overboard. My
brother was in dire need of therapy which he never received. Sick? You
bet! But you can be sure he's sitting in his fine comfortable home feeling
all smug because "she paid." She sits tied to her wheelchair like a
vegetable - no glasses so she can't even watch TV. Now you wonder why I
never wanted nothing to do with my brother?

> We really like our lawyer (aside from her legal/ethical virtues, her
> office is in a semi-rural house, and the office mascot is a large,
> friendly, well-behaved dog, who greets you politely when you come in).
>
> -- Kizhe

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:05:09 -0600

"Nedra" wrote in message
news:r1dHd.652$PA2.266@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Carol, I just can't figure out twisted minds. Your case is much sadder
than
> mine ...

## My mother has nothing left, not even her clothes since the other
patients swap and steal them. All he was concerned about was what was best
for HIM. He knew should could have come here and stayed with us. We have
the room. There was nothing I could do after the fact.

> I hope my brother doesn't do anymore stupid things - he will find out how
> angry his older
> (by 19 months) sis can get ;-)

## I found out when they have power of attorney you can't do much.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Due to financial crisis the light at the end
of the tunnel is switched off."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:58:23 GMT

That is one thing my brother did right years ago. He had his lawyer set up
durable
powers of attorney naming both of us... either/or is how the document
reads.
It seems strange he didn't think I would fight him on this. Surely he knows
I will not
be bossed around and steamrollered..

Nedra

Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"~ Windsong ~" wrote in message
news:9bWdnRWZPb0JZXDcRVn-sg@heartoftn.net...
>
> "Nedra" wrote in message
> news:r1dHd.652$PA2.266@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > Carol, I just can't figure out twisted minds. Your case is much sadder
> than
> > mine ...
>
> ## My mother has nothing left, not even her clothes since the other
> patients swap and steal them. All he was concerned about was what was
best
> for HIM. He knew should could have come here and stayed with us. We have
> the room. There was nothing I could do after the fact.
>
> > I hope my brother doesn't do anymore stupid things - he will find out
how
> > angry his older
> > (by 19 months) sis can get ;-)
>
> ## I found out when they have power of attorney you can't do much.
> --
> Carol.... the frugal ponder...
> "Due to financial crisis the light at the end
> of the tunnel is switched off."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:26:36 -0600

"Nedra" wrote in message
news:zqoHd.62$rp1.56@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> That is one thing my brother did right years ago. He had his lawyer set
up
> durable
> powers of attorney naming both of us... either/or is how the document
> reads.
> It seems strange he didn't think I would fight him on this. Surely he
knows
> I will not
> be bossed around and steamrollered..
>
> Nedra
==================
You go girl! :-) My brother was slick as a weasel knowing I was 1000 miles
away. He had a clear field to do as he pleased where mom was concerned.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 06:16:51 GMT

My brother thought he had a clear field ahead to do whatever he wished with
Mother's money.... I fixed him good. He has to give me a monthly accounting
of every
cent he pays out of her account. Lawyer has the letter drafted to go. I
didn't feel
one bit bad when Bub visited the nursing home while son Dave and I were
there...
this afternoon. I'm surprising myself! Sure feels better than carting all
that stress
around ;-)

Nedra
Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"~ Windsong ~" wrote in message
news:COmdnQYQzqpxuXLcRVn-qg@heartoftn.net...
>
> "Nedra" wrote in message
> news:zqoHd.62$rp1.56@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > That is one thing my brother did right years ago. He had his lawyer set
> up
> > durable
> > powers of attorney naming both of us... either/or is how the document
> > reads.
> > It seems strange he didn't think I would fight him on this. Surely he
> knows
> > I will not
> > be bossed around and steamrollered..
> >
> > Nedra
> ==================
> You go girl! :-) My brother was slick as a weasel knowing I was 1000
miles
> away. He had a clear field to do as he pleased where mom was concerned.
> --
> Carol.... the frugal ponder...
> Completely FREE software:
> http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>

From:	Cichlidiot
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:15:18 +0000 (UTC)

~ Windsong ~ wrote:

> "Nedra" wrote in message
> news:ljaHd.4291$Rs.114@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> Thanks Derek. Sense you asked ~ I'm still in a state of shock over Momma
>> due to an over-anxious
>> and Take Charge brother.... He moved her to a nurseing home in
>> Sikeston, MO ~~ it's just too upsetting to even talk about.
>> Thanks though for your concern.
> =====================
> Nedra, I understand as my brother did the same thing with my mother and
> never mentioned a word about his plans until after the fact. After her last
> stroke he got power of attorney from her lawyer, sold her house in NYC and
> sent her to a Nursing Home in VA where no one gets to visit her. She's gone
> downhill rapidly since there. It is very upsetting.....

There's two ways to deal with such type of family members; do nothing or
fight back. Just because they are first to get power of attorney doesn't
mean they will keep it indefinately. If you can prove to the courts that
they are not acting in the best interest of the elder (say they're acting
more in their financial interest) and that this failure to act in the
elder's best interest has led to the decline of the health of the elder,
well that's pretty damn close to elder abuse (hell, I'd call it elder
abuse, but I'm not a lawyer). The courts will likely strip the power of
attorney from the original holder and award it to someone else, although
not always to another family member.

In the worst case, the courts may set up a public guardianship where a
guardian appointed by the courts (usually an non-interested third party
who works for the office in charge of such matters) takes over. This can
be a hairy situation under certain circumstances. For example, the public
guardian is bound by a bit of red tape and might not be able to react as
quickly to certain health situations as a family member with power of
attorney might. Also, when the elder dies, probate court takes a whole lot
longer when there's a guardianship involved because the guardian has to
make sure all bills are resolved before sending information on the estate
to the courts. My grandfather died under a guardianship last spring. So
far the only parts of his estate that have been dispersed are a couple of
accounts that were not accessible by the guardian (death benefits from his
pension plan I think). The rest is still locked up in probate.

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:34:04 -0600

"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
news:csjn86$509$1@skeeter.ucdavis.edu...
> ~ Windsong ~ wrote:
>
> > "Nedra" wrote in message
> > news:ljaHd.4291$Rs.114@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >> Thanks Derek. Sense you asked ~ I'm still in a state of shock over
Momma
> >> due to an over-anxious
> >> and Take Charge brother.... He moved her to a nurseing home in
> >> Sikeston, MO ~~ it's just too upsetting to even talk about.
> >> Thanks though for your concern.
> > =====================
> > Nedra, I understand as my brother did the same thing with my mother and
> > never mentioned a word about his plans until after the fact. After her
last
> > stroke he got power of attorney from her lawyer, sold her house in NYC
and
> > sent her to a Nursing Home in VA where no one gets to visit her. She's
gone
> > downhill rapidly since there. It is very upsetting.....
=============================================
> There's two ways to deal with such type of family members; do nothing or
> fight back. Just because they are first to get power of attorney doesn't
> mean they will keep it indefinately.

** He lived in NY where she lived. I live here in TN. See my other post.
He got together with her lawyer and she signed her life, her savings and the
roof over her head away! She had no memory of doing it. All she
remembered was signing a check to pay her Dr. That was no check for her Dr.
I didn't know what my brother had planned until she was already in the NH in
VA. Her lawyer knew me, had my address and phone number, and never
bothered to contact me ... nothing!

If you can prove to the courts that
> they are not acting in the best interest of the elder (say they're acting
> more in their financial interest) and that this failure to act in the
> elder's best interest has led to the decline of the health of the elder,
> well that's pretty damn close to elder abuse (hell, I'd call it elder
> abuse, but I'm not a lawyer). The courts will likely strip the power of
> attorney from the original holder and award it to someone else, although
> not always to another family member.

** You are surely correct but I cannot afford a good lawyer to fight this.
I live in TN and she lives in VA now. Her lawyer is still in NY as far as I
know. My brother and his wife also live in VA. What galls me is her own
lawyer screwed her, knowing she could have come here and lived with us. I
spoke to him over the phone concerning her bank accounts being drawn down.
There are legal issues I can't get into here. He knew she was not competent
to sign her estate over - no one was there to look out for her welfare.

> In the worst case, the courts may set up a public guardianship where a
> guardian appointed by the courts (usually an non-interested third party
> who works for the office in charge of such matters) takes over. This can
> be a hairy situation under certain circumstances. For example, the public
> guardian is bound by a bit of red tape and might not be able to react as
> quickly to certain health situations as a family member with power of
> attorney might. Also, when the elder dies, probate court takes a whole lot
> longer when there's a guardianship involved because the guardian has to
> make sure all bills are resolved before sending information on the estate
> to the courts. My grandfather died under a guardianship last spring. So
> far the only parts of his estate that have been dispersed are a couple of
> accounts that were not accessible by the guardian (death benefits from his
> pension plan I think). The rest is still locked up in probate.

** I could never afford to hire an attorney to fight this. Also, at the
time all this went down she was still on her feet, still fed herself and
used the bathroom. She is now helpless. I don't think there's a dime left
of an estate that was worth half a mil in 1999. Her savings were squandered
on 24/7 nurses who robbed her blind, and a NH that tied her to a wheelchair
and made a helpless cripple of her... they even took her glasses away. I
was so depressed after my last visit there, I haven't gone back. Had she
come down here her savings would have been more than adequate for us to hire
a nurse to come in a few hours a day if necessary. She could have rented
her beloved house for a steady income... I'm just sick over it....
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Cichlidiot
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:12:25 +0000 (UTC)

~ Windsong ~ wrote:

> "Cichlidiot" wrote in message
> news:csjn86$509$1@skeeter.ucdavis.edu...
> If you can prove to the courts that
>> they are not acting in the best interest of the elder (say they're acting
>> more in their financial interest) and that this failure to act in the
>> elder's best interest has led to the decline of the health of the elder,
>> well that's pretty damn close to elder abuse (hell, I'd call it elder
>> abuse, but I'm not a lawyer). The courts will likely strip the power of
>> attorney from the original holder and award it to someone else, although
>> not always to another family member.

> ** You are surely correct but I cannot afford a good lawyer to fight this.
> I live in TN and she lives in VA now. Her lawyer is still in NY as far as I
> know. My brother and his wife also live in VA. What galls me is her own
> lawyer screwed her, knowing she could have come here and lived with us. I
> spoke to him over the phone concerning her bank accounts being drawn down.
> There are legal issues I can't get into here. He knew she was not competent
> to sign her estate over - no one was there to look out for her welfare.

Two options: pro bono lawyer and the elder abuse prevention agency from
one of these localities. Both of these would be free of charge to you.
Don't let lack of money keep you from fighting. There's almost always free
or cheap alternatives which would provide just as adequate, if slower
moving, results. You should be able to find the elder agency by looking
online (check for all states involved). As for the lawyer, check your
affliations. You'd be suprised how many organizations offer free consults
to lawyers for their members. I have such free consults from both my
credit union and undergrad alumni association. From the consult, you may
be able to find a pro bono lawyer at the firm or be referred to one. If
you don't have any such affliations, start working your social network to
see if any lawyer links show up. For example, the father of one of the
gals I went to high school and college with is a real estate lawyer. Think
of the "6 degree" rule... within 6 degrees (friend of a friend of a
friend... ad-nasuem) is likely a lawyer. You just have to dig a little to
find one.

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:39:26 -0600

"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
news:csl18p$3on$1@skeeter.ucdavis.edu...
> ~ Windsong ~ wrote:
> > ** You are surely correct but I cannot afford a good lawyer to fight
this.
> > I live in TN and she lives in VA now. Her lawyer is still in NY as far
as I
> > know. My brother and his wife also live in VA. What galls me is her
own
> > lawyer screwed her, knowing she could have come here and lived with us.
I
> > spoke to him over the phone concerning her bank accounts being drawn
down.
> > There are legal issues I can't get into here. He knew she was not
competent
> > to sign her estate over - no one was there to look out for her welfare.

> Two options: pro bono lawyer and the elder abuse prevention agency from
> one of these localities. Both of these would be free of charge to you.
> Don't let lack of money keep you from fighting. There's almost always free
> or cheap alternatives which would provide just as adequate, if slower
> moving, results. You should be able to find the elder agency by looking
> online (check for all states involved). As for the lawyer, check your
> affliations. You'd be suprised how many organizations offer free consults
> to lawyers for their members. I have such free consults from both my
> credit union and undergrad alumni association. From the consult, you may
> be able to find a pro bono lawyer at the firm or be referred to one. If
> you don't have any such affliations, start working your social network to
> see if any lawyer links show up. For example, the father of one of the
> gals I went to high school and college with is a real estate lawyer. Think
> of the "6 degree" rule... within 6 degrees (friend of a friend of a
> friend... ad-nasuem) is likely a lawyer. You just have to dig a little to
> find one.
==================
There is nothing left to fight for now. Everything she had is GONE,
including her independence and health. Since they tied her to a wheelchair
and made her use a diaper she's now completely helpless, has no bowel or
bladder control and her limbs are atrophied. Before she went there she was
getting along fine with her cane. She now needs round the clock care. Even
if I could locate a layer,... please tell me... what could he/she do for my
mother now?
I live in a very isolated area and only see people a few times a year at the
motorcycle events. My nearest friend lives 60 miles away. The others are
acquaintances, not friends. The rest of the people I see are strangers in
the stores. It's a hell of a way to live but I have no choice. Believe me,
had I stayed in NYC (like I should have) this would never have happened to
my mother.
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Anne Lurie
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:36:42 GMT

Carol,

At the very least, you might be able to talk to people who have been through
similar situations. Here is a link to SeniorLaw Resources:
http://www.seniorlaw.com/resource.htm

Also, here is the link to the website of NYS Attorney General Eliot Spitzer:
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/ (Even if all this happened to your mother
before Spitzer, NYS AG's have traditionally been tough characters.)

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC

"~ Windsong ~" wrote
[snipped]
> There is nothing left to fight for now. Everything she had is GONE,
> including her independence and health. Since they tied her to a
> wheelchair
> and made her use a diaper she's now completely helpless, has no bowel or
> bladder control and her limbs are atrophied. Before she went there she
> was
> getting along fine with her cane. She now needs round the clock care.
> Even
> if I could locate a layer,... please tell me... what could he/she do for
> my
> mother now?
> I live in a very isolated area and only see people a few times a year at
> the
> motorcycle events. My nearest friend lives 60 miles away. The others are
> acquaintances, not friends. The rest of the people I see are strangers in
> the stores. It's a hell of a way to live but I have no choice. Believe
> me,
> had I stayed in NYC (like I should have) this would never have happened to
> my mother.
> --
> Carol.... the frugal ponder...
> "Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>

From:	Derek Broughton
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:52:31 -0400

Anne Lurie wrote:

> Also, here is the link to the website of NYS Attorney General Eliot
> Spitzer:
> http://www.oag.state.ny.us/ (Even if all this happened to your mother
> before Spitzer, NYS AG's have traditionally been tough characters.)
>

And that Spitzer is something else! I heard him on Canadian radio a couple
of weeks ago.
--
derek

From:	Anne Lurie
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 23:17:38 GMT

But, Derek, which would you rather have:

Spitzer on your side or on the other side?

Anne

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
news:fjo7c2-d8e.ln1@othello.pointerstop.ca...
> Anne Lurie wrote:
>
>> Also, here is the link to the website of NYS Attorney General Eliot
>> Spitzer:
>> http://www.oag.state.ny.us/ (Even if all this happened to your mother
>> before Spitzer, NYS AG's have traditionally been tough characters.)
>>
>
> And that Spitzer is something else! I heard him on Canadian radio a
> couple
> of weeks ago.
> --
> derek

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:38:40 -0600

"Anne Lurie" wrote in message
news:eLTHd.43231$fE4.5205826@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Carol,
>
> At the very least, you might be able to talk to people who have been
through
> similar situations. Here is a link to SeniorLaw Resources:
> http://www.seniorlaw.com/resource.htm

$$ Thanks Anne.

> Also, here is the link to the website of NYS Attorney General Eliot
Spitzer:
> http://www.oag.state.ny.us/ (Even if all this happened to your mother
> before Spitzer, NYS AG's have traditionally been tough characters.)

$$ I'll check these sites out. Unfortunately, there was no one there at
the time to look out for my mother and what was best for her. If I had only
known....

> Anne Lurie
> Raleigh, NC

--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
"If electricity comes from electrons,
does morality come from morons?"
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Nedra
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:11:07 GMT

Thanks you guys. I'm a fighter! I just got back from my lawyer. He
mentioned a Guardianship
but I really didn't want to go that way. He is writing my brother a letter
asking him
for an accounting of the monies he has taken from her (all 3 of us are joint
owners)
account including in excess of $30K he withdrew and invested and Lost in the
dot.com bubble.
What a mess.

Nedra

Lotus Garden:
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118
Backyard Pond:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
"Cichlidiot" wrote in message
news:csjn86$509$1@skeeter.ucdavis.edu...
> ~ Windsong ~ wrote:
>
> > "Nedra" wrote in message
> > news:ljaHd.4291$Rs.114@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >> Thanks Derek. Sense you asked ~ I'm still in a state of shock over
Momma
> >> due to an over-anxious
> >> and Take Charge brother.... He moved her to a nurseing home in
> >> Sikeston, MO ~~ it's just too upsetting to even talk about.
> >> Thanks though for your concern.
> > =====================
> > Nedra, I understand as my brother did the same thing with my mother and
> > never mentioned a word about his plans until after the fact. After her
last
> > stroke he got power of attorney from her lawyer, sold her house in NYC
and
> > sent her to a Nursing Home in VA where no one gets to visit her. She's
gone
> > downhill rapidly since there. It is very upsetting.....
>
> There's two ways to deal with such type of family members; do nothing or
> fight back. Just because they are first to get power of attorney doesn't
> mean they will keep it indefinately. If you can prove to the courts that
> they are not acting in the best interest of the elder (say they're acting
> more in their financial interest) and that this failure to act in the
> elder's best interest has led to the decline of the health of the elder,
> well that's pretty damn close to elder abuse (hell, I'd call it elder
> abuse, but I'm not a lawyer). The courts will likely strip the power of
> attorney from the original holder and award it to someone else, although
> not always to another family member.
>
> In the worst case, the courts may set up a public guardianship where a
> guardian appointed by the courts (usually an non-interested third party
> who works for the office in charge of such matters) takes over. This can
> be a hairy situation under certain circumstances. For example, the public
> guardian is bound by a bit of red tape and might not be able to react as
> quickly to certain health situations as a family member with power of
> attorney might. Also, when the elder dies, probate court takes a whole lot
> longer when there's a guardianship involved because the guardian has to
> make sure all bills are resolved before sending information on the estate
> to the courts. My grandfather died under a guardianship last spring. So
> far the only parts of his estate that have been dispersed are a couple of
> accounts that were not accessible by the guardian (death benefits from his
> pension plan I think). The rest is still locked up in probate.

From:	~ Windsong ~
Subject:	Re: Nedra - mothers & strokes
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:44:22 -0600

"Nedra" wrote in message
news:%PfHd.788$PA2.333@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Thanks you guys. I'm a fighter! I just got back from my lawyer. He
> mentioned a Guardianship
> but I really didn't want to go that way. He is writing my brother a
letter
> asking him
> for an accounting of the monies he has taken from her (all 3 of us are
joint
> owners)
> account including in excess of $30K he withdrew and invested and Lost in
the
> dot.com bubble.
> What a mess.
========================
My brother had to give an accounting to SS as to where my mother's cash
went. $250,000 (give or take) went for imported Polish nurses - they
cleaned my mother's house out. They carried away everything of value
including her silver and jewelry. Jewelry with sentimental value; my father
gave it to her over the years. The silver was a wedding gift to her from
her brother. Some jewelry was my grandmothers. My brother, living across
the street from her was too busy to watch this live-in thief who was getting
$5,000 a month plus free room-and-board. When the cash was gone he sold her
house = $350,000 + or - and that went to the NH. Because she failed to
make plans before her (cluster) strokes she now has no choice. Her own
lawyer and son sold her down the river......
--
Carol.... the frugal ponder...
Completely FREE software:
http://www.pricelessware.org/thelist/index.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:	Roy
Subject:	Re: Nedra
Date:	Sat, 15 Jan 2005 18:18:16 GMT

Another freak from WebTV heard from......whats a matter AOL to
complicated for you?

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:04:32 -0500, rebeljoe@webtv.net (REBEL JOE)
wrote:

>===<>Don't let this Roy dork keep ya from postting We all love ya here. Your
>===<>advice has helped me a lot. And besides BV can handle him.
>===<>
>===<>
>===<>
>===<>http://community.webtv.net/rebeljoe/POND

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS