I'm gonna regret this but...."God" does not exist. "God" is a
theoretical model of the perfect human (notice I didn't say man - women
would have a field day with that one)

Really, "God" (aka perfect human) is a model as a basis for justice.
That which supports the attributes of a perfect human, is the basis for
the protection of law. That which is not the attribute of the perfect
human is punishable by law. Ergo, "God" is only a dividing line (per
se) to determine what is perfect and what is not. What is not perfect
wrong, incorrect, erroneous, ambiguous, illogical, punishable....etc...

Whatever else one chooses to believe is just as theoretical yet does
not exist because it has not manifested itself in law. Ergo, if it does
not exist (because it has not been written down as law) is conjecture.
The bible is not law because it has never been accepted as evidence
since none of it can be proved in the domain of physical existance. At
best, the bible is "spiritual law" not physical law, and therefore none
of it can be proved.

Howzat?

hehehehehehe. I am so wicked!

CB

From:	Noah Roberts
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:00:45 -0800

arniefufkin wrote:

> Howzat?

http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_15.php
>
> hehehehehehe. I am so wicked!

Nah, just weak.

From:	ParaXerxes
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 05:14:36 GMT

From:	David
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:22:08 -0800

arniefufkin wrote:
> I'm gonna regret this but...."God" does not exist. "God" is a
> theoretical model of the perfect human (notice I didn't say man - women
> would have a field day with that one)
>
> Really, "God" (aka perfect human) is a model as a basis for justice.
> That which supports the attributes of a perfect human, is the basis for
> the protection of law. That which is not the attribute of the perfect
> human is punishable by law. Ergo, "God" is only a dividing line (per
> se) to determine what is perfect and what is not. What is not perfect
> wrong, incorrect, erroneous, ambiguous, illogical, punishable....etc...
>
> Whatever else one chooses to believe is just as theoretical yet does
> not exist because it has not manifested itself in law. Ergo, if it does
> not exist (because it has not been written down as law) is conjecture.
> The bible is not law because it has never been accepted as evidence
> since none of it can be proved in the domain of physical existance. At
> best, the bible is "spiritual law" not physical law, and therefore none
> of it can be proved.
>
> Howzat?
>
> hehehehehehe. I am so wicked!
>
> CB
>

Time to get out those flame proof pants :)

From:	John Fields
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:37:05 -0600

On 20 Jan 2005 21:10:34 -0800, "arniefufkin"
wrote:

>I'm gonna regret this but...."God" does not exist. "God" is a
>theoretical model of the perfect human (notice I didn't say man - women
>would have a field day with that one)
>
>Really, "God" (aka perfect human) is a model as a basis for justice.
>That which supports the attributes of a perfect human, is the basis for
>the protection of law. That which is not the attribute of the perfect
>human is punishable by law. Ergo, "God" is only a dividing line (per
>se) to determine what is perfect and what is not. What is not perfect
>wrong, incorrect, erroneous, ambiguous, illogical, punishable....etc...
>
>Whatever else one chooses to believe is just as theoretical yet does
>not exist because it has not manifested itself in law. Ergo, if it does
>not exist (because it has not been written down as law) is conjecture.
>The bible is not law because it has never been accepted as evidence
>since none of it can be proved in the domain of physical existance. At
>best, the bible is "spiritual law" not physical law, and therefore none
>of it can be proved.
>
>Howzat?

---
Whether or not any of it can be proved, the bible seems to be a
survival manual which, over the years has been used as the basis for
the creation of man's laws, right or wrong.

--
John Fields

From:	James Knott
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:39:28 -0500

John Fields wrote:

> Whether or not any of it can be proved, the bible seems to be a
> survival manual which, over the years has been used as the basis for
> the creation of man's laws, right or wrong.

What is now the bible, was originally a bunch of parables. Somehow, along
the way, it became "the truth" which those idiot fundementalists insist on
taking literally. Somehow, other cultures manage to work out right &
wrong, without the bible. On the other hand, many have also used it to
justify harming others.

Anyone, who uses "God's on our side" to justify actions against others is
extremely dangerous. This includes that guy, who had that big party in
Washington yesterday.

From:	Jim Thompson
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:12:20 -0700

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:39:28 -0500, James Knott
wrote:

>John Fields wrote:
>
>> Whether or not any of it can be proved, the bible seems to be a
>> survival manual which, over the years has been used as the basis for
>> the creation of man's laws, right or wrong.
>
>What is now the bible, was originally a bunch of parables. Somehow, along
>the way, it became "the truth" which those idiot fundementalists insist on
>taking literally. Somehow, other cultures manage to work out right &
>wrong, without the bible. On the other hand, many have also used it to
>justify harming others.
>
>
>Anyone, who uses "God's on our side" to justify actions against others is
>extremely dangerous. This includes that guy, who had that big party in
>Washington yesterday.

"W" was just pandering to a small percentage of the electorate who
voted for him. Probably a number equal to the popular vote margin.
You know, that margin the Democrats are trying to figure out how to
get ;-)

Personally I wish "W" would knock off the religion bit and get on with
the war ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

From:	Aunty Kreist
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:31:09 -0500

"John Fields" wrote in message
news:qcb2v0l6urr655l37n3amah3jh6tmpmgo6@4ax.com...
> On 20 Jan 2005 21:10:34 -0800, "arniefufkin"
> wrote:
>
> >I'm gonna regret this but...."God" does not exist. "God" is a
> >theoretical model of the perfect human (notice I didn't say man - women
> >would have a field day with that one)
> >
> >Really, "God" (aka perfect human) is a model as a basis for justice.
> >That which supports the attributes of a perfect human, is the basis for
> >the protection of law. That which is not the attribute of the perfect
> >human is punishable by law. Ergo, "God" is only a dividing line (per
> >se) to determine what is perfect and what is not. What is not perfect
> >wrong, incorrect, erroneous, ambiguous, illogical, punishable....etc...
> >
> >Whatever else one chooses to believe is just as theoretical yet does
> >not exist because it has not manifested itself in law. Ergo, if it does
> >not exist (because it has not been written down as law) is conjecture.
> >The bible is not law because it has never been accepted as evidence
> >since none of it can be proved in the domain of physical existance. At
> >best, the bible is "spiritual law" not physical law, and therefore none
> >of it can be proved.
> >
> >Howzat?
>
> ---
> Whether or not any of it can be proved, the bible seems to be a
> survival manual which, over the years has been used as the basis for
> the creation of man's laws, right or wrong.
>
> --
> John Fields

Since Christianity is actually a minority, compared to other world
religions, the buy-bull can't be considered any sort of authority; it does
not apply to the majority of the humans in this world.

From:	Douglas O'Neal
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:38:49 -0500

Aunty Kreist wrote:
>
> Since Christianity is actually a minority, compared to other world
> religions, the buy-bull can't be considered any sort of authority; it does
> not apply to the majority of the humans in this world.
>

So can you name any "authority" that is recognized by over 50% of the
world's population or are you proposing that there does not exist any
authority?

Also, does one need to acknowledge an authority before that authority
actually exists? In other words, if I refuse to recognize the IRS (in
the US) just like you refuse to recognize the Bible, does that take away
the authority of the IRS?

From:	Aunty Kreist
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:45:06 -0500

"Douglas O'Neal" wrote in message
news:csrlo9$lc7$1@scrotar.nss.udel.edu...
> Aunty Kreist wrote:
> >
> > Since Christianity is actually a minority, compared to other world
> > religions, the buy-bull can't be considered any sort of authority; it
does
> > not apply to the majority of the humans in this world.
> >
>
> So can you name any "authority" that is recognized by over 50% of the
> world's population or are you proposing that there does not exist any
> authority?

I don't think there's any authority recognized by that percentage of the
population. Even, as an example, say- Catholics. The modern Catholic church
seems to widely either somewhat ignore, or disregard the opinions and
requests of it's authority- the Vatican. If I had to pick one area that
would earn respect from the world over, I'd have to say it would be science.

> Also, does one need to acknowledge an authority before that authority
> actually exists? In other words, if I refuse to recognize the IRS (in
> the US) just like you refuse to recognize the Bible, does that take away
> the authority of the IRS?

I think the difference lays in what is a belief, and what is law. You ignore
the IRS, they'll come and take you down. If you refuse to acknowledge the
Bible, nothing can be done ( yet, although I'm sure it's on Shrub's agenda).

From:	Barry Lennox
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:02:45 +1300

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:38:49 -0500, Douglas O'Neal
wrote:

>Aunty Kreist wrote:
>>
>> Since Christianity is actually a minority, compared to other world
>> religions, the buy-bull can't be considered any sort of authority; it does
>> not apply to the majority of the humans in this world.
>>
>
>So can you name any "authority" that is recognized by over 50% of the
>world's population or are you proposing that there does not exist any
>authority?

Sure, it's called "legislation" works in just about every country I
know of. And then there's good science, covers basic stuff like
gravity, Ohms law, etc, etc, and much more, again it seems to be
authoritative in every country I know of.

>
>Also, does one need to acknowledge an authority before that authority
>actually exists? In other words, if I refuse to recognize the IRS (in
>the US) just like you refuse to recognize the Bible, does that take away
>the authority of the IRS?

Sure, it works like that, please do refuse to recognise the IRS and
their authority over you simply vanishes, honest. Try it for yourself.
It will be just the same as me refusing to accept the "buy-bull" or
similar texts, the idol-worshippers authority just pales away.

Barry Lennox

From:	Parse Tree
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:25:02 GMT

Douglas O'Neal wrote:
> Aunty Kreist wrote:
>
>>
>> Since Christianity is actually a minority, compared to other world
>> religions, the buy-bull can't be considered any sort of authority; it
>> does
>> not apply to the majority of the humans in this world.
>>
>
> So can you name any "authority" that is recognized by over 50% of the
> world's population or are you proposing that there does not exist any
> authority?

I think empiricism and rationalism would both be recognized by over 50%
of the world's population.

> Also, does one need to acknowledge an authority before that authority
> actually exists? In other words, if I refuse to recognize the IRS (in
> the US) just like you refuse to recognize the Bible, does that take away
> the authority of the IRS?

Yes.

From:	John Fields
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:24:20 -0600

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:31:09 -0500, "Aunty Kreist"
wrote:

>
>"John Fields" wrote in message
>news:qcb2v0l6urr655l37n3amah3jh6tmpmgo6@4ax.com...
>> On 20 Jan 2005 21:10:34 -0800, "arniefufkin"
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I'm gonna regret this but...."God" does not exist. "God" is a
>> >theoretical model of the perfect human (notice I didn't say man - women
>> >would have a field day with that one)
>> >
>> >Really, "God" (aka perfect human) is a model as a basis for justice.
>> >That which supports the attributes of a perfect human, is the basis for
>> >the protection of law. That which is not the attribute of the perfect
>> >human is punishable by law. Ergo, "God" is only a dividing line (per
>> >se) to determine what is perfect and what is not. What is not perfect
>> >wrong, incorrect, erroneous, ambiguous, illogical, punishable....etc...
>> >
>> >Whatever else one chooses to believe is just as theoretical yet does
>> >not exist because it has not manifested itself in law. Ergo, if it does
>> >not exist (because it has not been written down as law) is conjecture.
>> >The bible is not law because it has never been accepted as evidence
>> >since none of it can be proved in the domain of physical existance. At
>> >best, the bible is "spiritual law" not physical law, and therefore none
>> >of it can be proved.
>> >
>> >Howzat?
>>
>> ---
>> Whether or not any of it can be proved, the bible seems to be a
>> survival manual which, over the years has been used as the basis for
>> the creation of man's laws, right or wrong.
>>
>> --
>> John Fields
>
>Since Christianity is actually a minority, compared to other world
>religions, the buy-bull can't be considered any sort of authority; it does
>not apply to the majority of the humans in this world.
---
???

From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Christianity: 2 billion

Islam: 1.3 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million

Buddhism: 360 million

Chinese traditional religion: 225 million

primal-indigenous: 150 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 14 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 6 million

Jainism: 4 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 3 million

Tenrikyo: 2.4 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 700 thousand

Scientology: 600 thousand

Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

--
John Fields

From:	Aunty Kreist
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:40:53 -0500

"John Fields" wrote in message
news:sl33v0t95dglqrum5p1ilc9dc6dv4etv23@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:31:09 -0500, "Aunty Kreist"
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"John Fields" wrote in message
> >news:qcb2v0l6urr655l37n3amah3jh6tmpmgo6@4ax.com...
> >> On 20 Jan 2005 21:10:34 -0800, "arniefufkin"
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I'm gonna regret this but...."God" does not exist. "God" is a
> >> >theoretical model of the perfect human (notice I didn't say man -
women
> >> >would have a field day with that one)
> >> >
> >> >Really, "God" (aka perfect human) is a model as a basis for justice.
> >> >That which supports the attributes of a perfect human, is the basis
for
> >> >the protection of law. That which is not the attribute of the perfect
> >> >human is punishable by law. Ergo, "God" is only a dividing line (per
> >> >se) to determine what is perfect and what is not. What is not perfect
> >> >wrong, incorrect, erroneous, ambiguous, illogical,
punishable....etc...
> >> >
> >> >Whatever else one chooses to believe is just as theoretical yet does
> >> >not exist because it has not manifested itself in law. Ergo, if it
does
> >> >not exist (because it has not been written down as law) is conjecture.
> >> >The bible is not law because it has never been accepted as evidence
> >> >since none of it can be proved in the domain of physical existance. At
> >> >best, the bible is "spiritual law" not physical law, and therefore
none
> >> >of it can be proved.
> >> >
> >> >Howzat?
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Whether or not any of it can be proved, the bible seems to be a
> >> survival manual which, over the years has been used as the basis for
> >> the creation of man's laws, right or wrong.
> >>
> >> --
> >> John Fields
> >
> >Since Christianity is actually a minority, compared to other world
> >religions, the buy-bull can't be considered any sort of authority; it
does
> >not apply to the majority of the humans in this world.
> ---
> ???
>
> From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
>
>
> Christianity: 2 billion
>
> Islam: 1.3 billion
>
> Hinduism: 900 million
>
> Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million
>
> Buddhism: 360 million
>
> Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
>
> primal-indigenous: 150 million
>
> African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million
>
> Sikhism: 23 million
>
> Juche: 19 million
>
> Spiritism: 14 million
>
> Judaism: 14 million
>
> Baha'i: 6 million
>
> Jainism: 4 million
>
> Shinto: 4 million
>
> Cao Dai: 3 million
>
> Tenrikyo: 2.4 million
>
> Neo-Paganism: 1 million
>
> Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
>
> Rastafarianism: 700 thousand
>
> Scientology: 600 thousand
>
> Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand
>
>
> --
> John Fields

So...add up the number for all the non-Christian religions, and what do you
get?

From:	John Fields
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:33:50 -0600

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:40:53 -0500, "Aunty Kreist"
wrote:

>So...add up the number for all the non-Christian religions, and what do you
>get?

---
Hmmm... not bad.

--
John Fields

From:	Parse Tree
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:39:40 GMT

John Fields wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:31:09 -0500, "Aunty Kreist"
> wrote:
>
>
>>"John Fields" wrote in message
>>news:qcb2v0l6urr655l37n3amah3jh6tmpmgo6@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On 20 Jan 2005 21:10:34 -0800, "arniefufkin"
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm gonna regret this but...."God" does not exist. "God" is a
>>>>theoretical model of the perfect human (notice I didn't say man - women
>>>>would have a field day with that one)
>>>>
>>>>Really, "God" (aka perfect human) is a model as a basis for justice.
>>>>That which supports the attributes of a perfect human, is the basis for
>>>>the protection of law. That which is not the attribute of the perfect
>>>>human is punishable by law. Ergo, "God" is only a dividing line (per
>>>>se) to determine what is perfect and what is not. What is not perfect
>>>>wrong, incorrect, erroneous, ambiguous, illogical, punishable....etc...
>>>>
>>>>Whatever else one chooses to believe is just as theoretical yet does
>>>>not exist because it has not manifested itself in law. Ergo, if it does
>>>>not exist (because it has not been written down as law) is conjecture.
>>>>The bible is not law because it has never been accepted as evidence
>>>>since none of it can be proved in the domain of physical existance. At
>>>>best, the bible is "spiritual law" not physical law, and therefore none
>>>>of it can be proved.
>>>>
>>>>Howzat?
>>>
>>>---
>>>Whether or not any of it can be proved, the bible seems to be a
>>>survival manual which, over the years has been used as the basis for
>>>the creation of man's laws, right or wrong.
>>>
>>>--
>>>John Fields
>>
>>Since Christianity is actually a minority, compared to other world
>>religions, the buy-bull can't be considered any sort of authority; it does
>>not apply to the majority of the humans in this world.
>
> ---
> ???
>
> From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
>
>
> Christianity: 2 billion
>
> Islam: 1.3 billion
>
> Hinduism: 900 million

1.3 billion + 900 million > 2 billion

Christianity is therefore a minority.

Regardless, those things only measure what people profess, and not what
they actually believe in their minds. I'd wager that atheism is closer
to 5 billion.

From:	Aunty Kreist
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:43:02 -0500

"Parse Tree" wrote in message
news:wKzId.1244540$lR6.188486@news.easynews.com...
> John Fields wrote:
> > On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:31:09 -0500, "Aunty Kreist"
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"John Fields" wrote in message
> >>news:qcb2v0l6urr655l37n3amah3jh6tmpmgo6@4ax.com...
> >>
> >>>On 20 Jan 2005 21:10:34 -0800, "arniefufkin"
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm gonna regret this but...."God" does not exist. "God" is a
> >>>>theoretical model of the perfect human (notice I didn't say man -
women
> >>>>would have a field day with that one)
> >>>>
> >>>>Really, "God" (aka perfect human) is a model as a basis for justice.
> >>>>That which supports the attributes of a perfect human, is the basis
for
> >>>>the protection of law. That which is not the attribute of the perfect
> >>>>human is punishable by law. Ergo, "God" is only a dividing line (per
> >>>>se) to determine what is perfect and what is not. What is not perfect
> >>>>wrong, incorrect, erroneous, ambiguous, illogical,
punishable....etc...
> >>>>
> >>>>Whatever else one chooses to believe is just as theoretical yet does
> >>>>not exist because it has not manifested itself in law. Ergo, if it
does
> >>>>not exist (because it has not been written down as law) is conjecture.
> >>>>The bible is not law because it has never been accepted as evidence
> >>>>since none of it can be proved in the domain of physical existance. At
> >>>>best, the bible is "spiritual law" not physical law, and therefore
none
> >>>>of it can be proved.
> >>>>
> >>>>Howzat?
> >>>
> >>>---
> >>>Whether or not any of it can be proved, the bible seems to be a
> >>>survival manual which, over the years has been used as the basis for
> >>>the creation of man's laws, right or wrong.
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>John Fields
> >>
> >>Since Christianity is actually a minority, compared to other world
> >>religions, the buy-bull can't be considered any sort of authority; it
does
> >>not apply to the majority of the humans in this world.
> >
> > ---
> > ???
> >
> > From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
> >
> >
> > Christianity: 2 billion
> >
> > Islam: 1.3 billion
> >
> > Hinduism: 900 million
>
> 1.3 billion + 900 million > 2 billion
>
> Christianity is therefore a minority.
>
>
> Regardless, those things only measure what people profess, and not what
> they actually believe in their minds. I'd wager that atheism is closer
> to 5 billion.

Agnostics and Pagans were also not included in that survey.

Does Scientology count as a religion, or a cult? :)

From:	John Fields
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 09:36:00 -0600

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:43:02 -0500, "Aunty Kreist"
wrote:

>
>"Parse Tree" wrote in message
>news:wKzId.1244540$lR6.188486@news.easynews.com...

>> Regardless, those things only measure what people profess, and not what
>> they actually believe in their minds. I'd wager that atheism is closer
>> to 5 billion.
>
>Agnostics and Pagans were also not included in that survey.

---
I believe they were included (albeit not specifically) in :

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html#Nonreligious
---

--
John Fields

From:	Aunty Kreist
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:42:27 -0500

"John Fields" wrote in message
news:7tg7v05q86u8mdmvkhcolq1m5n18da9jmc@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:43:02 -0500, "Aunty Kreist"
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Parse Tree" wrote in message
> >news:wKzId.1244540$lR6.188486@news.easynews.com...
>
> >> Regardless, those things only measure what people profess, and not what
> >> they actually believe in their minds. I'd wager that atheism is closer
> >> to 5 billion.
> >
> >Agnostics and Pagans were also not included in that survey.
>
> ---
> I believe they were included (albeit not specifically) in :
>
> http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html#Nonreligious

Ah, thank you!

>
>
> --
> John Fields

From:	Parse Tree
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 03:39:01 GMT

Aunty Kreist wrote:
> "Parse Tree" wrote in message
> news:wKzId.1244540$lR6.188486@news.easynews.com...
>
>>John Fields wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:31:09 -0500, "Aunty Kreist"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"John Fields" wrote in message
>>>>news:qcb2v0l6urr655l37n3amah3jh6tmpmgo6@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On 20 Jan 2005 21:10:34 -0800, "arniefufkin"
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm gonna regret this but...."God" does not exist. "God" is a
>>>>>>theoretical model of the perfect human (notice I didn't say man -
>
> women
>
>>>>>>would have a field day with that one)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Really, "God" (aka perfect human) is a model as a basis for justice.
>>>>>>That which supports the attributes of a perfect human, is the basis
>
> for
>
>>>>>>the protection of law. That which is not the attribute of the perfect
>>>>>>human is punishable by law. Ergo, "God" is only a dividing line (per
>>>>>>se) to determine what is perfect and what is not. What is not perfect
>>>>>>wrong, incorrect, erroneous, ambiguous, illogical,
>
> punishable....etc...
>
>>>>>>Whatever else one chooses to believe is just as theoretical yet does
>>>>>>not exist because it has not manifested itself in law. Ergo, if it
>
> does
>
>>>>>>not exist (because it has not been written down as law) is conjecture.
>>>>>>The bible is not law because it has never been accepted as evidence
>>>>>>since none of it can be proved in the domain of physical existance. At
>>>>>>best, the bible is "spiritual law" not physical law, and therefore
>
> none
>
>>>>>>of it can be proved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Howzat?
>>>>>
>>>>>---
>>>>>Whether or not any of it can be proved, the bible seems to be a
>>>>>survival manual which, over the years has been used as the basis for
>>>>>the creation of man's laws, right or wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>John Fields
>>>>
>>>>Since Christianity is actually a minority, compared to other world
>>>>religions, the buy-bull can't be considered any sort of authority; it
>
> does
>
>>>>not apply to the majority of the humans in this world.
>>>
>>>---
>>>???
>>>
>>>From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
>>>
>>>
>>>Christianity: 2 billion
>>>
>>>Islam: 1.3 billion
>>>
>>>Hinduism: 900 million
>>
>>1.3 billion + 900 million > 2 billion
>>
>>Christianity is therefore a minority.
>>
>>
>>Regardless, those things only measure what people profess, and not what
>>they actually believe in their minds. I'd wager that atheism is closer
>>to 5 billion.
>
>
> Agnostics and Pagans were also not included in that survey.
>
> Does Scientology count as a religion, or a cult? :)

All religions are cults. Although not all cults are religions.

From:	James Knott
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:49:56 -0500

Aunty Kreist wrote:

> Does Scientology count as a religion, or a cult?

Is there a difference?

From:	Aunty Kreist
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:39:28 -0500

"James Knott" wrote in message
news:puSdnX26oqcZNm7cRVn-iA@rogers.com...
> Aunty Kreist wrote:
>
> > Does Scientology count as a religion, or a cult?
>
> Is there a difference?

None that I think of offhand. :)

From:	keith
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 11:19:16 -0500

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:49:56 -0500, James Knott wrote:

> Aunty Kreist wrote:
>
>> Does Scientology count as a religion, or a cult?
>
> Is there a difference?

Ask yourself if your atheism is a cult, and maybe you'll see the
difference.

--
Keith

From:	Aunty Kreist
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:41:54 -0500

"keith" wrote in message
news:pan.2005.01.23.16.19.15.142665@att.bizzzz...
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:49:56 -0500, James Knott wrote:
>
> > Aunty Kreist wrote:
> >
> >> Does Scientology count as a religion, or a cult?
> >
> > Is there a difference?
>
> Ask yourself if your atheism is a cult, and maybe you'll see the
> difference.
>
> --
> Keith

There's a hierarchy and organization to Scientology, though. Atheism doesn't
have any such nonsense.

From:	Mark Fergerson
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:32:33 -0700

James Knott wrote:
> Aunty Kreist wrote:

>>Does Scientology count as a religion, or a cult?

> Is there a difference?

Sure; "We" belong to a Religion, "They" are a cult.

;>)

Mark L. Fergerson

From:	John Fields
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:30:31 -0600

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:39:40 GMT, Parse Tree
wrote:

>> Christianity: 2 billion
>>
>> Islam: 1.3 billion
>>
>> Hinduism: 900 million
>
>1.3 billion + 900 million > 2 billion
>
>Christianity is therefore a minority.

---
Looking at it that way, they're _all_ minorities.
---\

>Regardless, those things only measure what people profess, and not what
>they actually believe in their minds. I'd wager that atheism is closer
>to 5 billion.

---
Don't bet too much; check this out:

http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop

--
John Fields

From:	Parse Tree
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:46:49 GMT

John Fields wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:39:40 GMT, Parse Tree
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>Christianity: 2 billion
>>>
>>>Islam: 1.3 billion
>>>
>>>Hinduism: 900 million
>>
>>1.3 billion + 900 million > 2 billion
>>
>>Christianity is therefore a minority.
>
>
> ---
> Looking at it that way, they're _all_ minorities.
> ---\

Yup!

>>Regardless, those things only measure what people profess, and not what
>>they actually believe in their minds. I'd wager that atheism is closer
>>to 5 billion.
>
>
> ---
> Don't bet too much; check this out:
>
> http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop

6 billion people more than allows for 5 billion atheists.

From:	John Fields
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:12:53 -0600

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:46:49 GMT, Parse Tree
wrote:

>John Fields wrote:

>> ---
>> Don't bet too much; check this out:
>>
>> http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop
>
>6 billion people more than allows for 5 billion atheists.

---
Do you actually believe that 83% of the world is atheistic?

I don't. If it were, _I'd_ bet that it would be a lot quieter than it
is right now.

--
John Fields

From:	Parse Tree
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:57:47 GMT

John Fields wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:46:49 GMT, Parse Tree
> wrote:
>
>
>>John Fields wrote:
>
>
>>>---
>>>Don't bet too much; check this out:
>>>
>>>http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop
>>
>>6 billion people more than allows for 5 billion atheists.
>
>
> ---
> Do you actually believe that 83% of the world is atheistic?

I think 83% of the world does not actually believe in divinity, and that
any religious behaviour they exhibit is due to other factors. Wishful
thinking, probably being the most common of those factors.

> I don't. If it were, _I'd_ bet that it would be a lot quieter than it
> is right now.

If they professed the same thing that they believed, then probably. But
that's the problem.

From:	ParaXerxes
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:22:15 GMT

John Fields wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:46:49 GMT, Parse Tree
> wrote:
>
>>John Fields wrote:
>
>>> ---
>>> Don't bet too much; check this out:
>>>
>>> http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop
>>
>>6 billion people more than allows for 5 billion atheists.
>
> ---
> Do you actually believe that 83% of the world is atheistic?
>
> I don't. If it were, _I'd_ bet that it would be a lot quieter than it
> is right now.

The unscientific nature of those claims bespeaks the intelligence behind
them. Parse Tree is in love with atheism, not the truth.

It wouldn't be quieter, John. The problem is not, as some would have us
erroneously believe, with religion per se, as it's not with any field of
human endeavour per se,the problem is with humanity. If religion didn't
exist, basically the same problems would exist due to humans haveing
developed a certain nature and outpicturing it in their lives. Even science
itself has for all intents and purposes become a religion because of the
human proclivity to dogmatise and elevate human concepts to the region of
truth.

From:	Jim Thompson
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:33:32 -0700

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:24:20 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

[snip]
>
>From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
>
>
[snip]
>
>Judaism: 14 million
>
[snip]

John, Do you ever do order-of-magnitude-rationale checks before you
post?

Sheeeesh!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

From:	Tom Del Rosso
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:44:59 GMT

"Jim Thompson" wrote in message
news:7243v091grf2270objrkoiaq1eh52oskl0@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:24:20 -0600, John Fields
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >
> >Judaism: 14 million
> >
> [snip]
>
> John, Do you ever do order-of-magnitude-rationale checks before you
> post?
>
> Sheeeesh!

It's the same number I came across in a WSJ article the other day. The 6E6
killed 60 years ago was half the Jewish population of Europe.

--

Reply in group, but if emailing add
2 more zeros and remove the obvious.

From:	John Fields
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:20:12 -0600

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:33:32 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:24:20 -0600, John Fields
> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>>
>>From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
>>
>>
>[snip]
>>
>>Judaism: 14 million
>>
>[snip]
>
>John, Do you ever do order-of-magnitude-rationale checks before you
>post?

---
Reality checks? Sometimes I do, but not this time.

Yeah, it looked a little high to me too!^)

Got any "real" numbers?

--
John Fields

From:	Jim Thompson
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:45:39 -0700

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:20:12 -0600, John Fields
wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:33:32 -0700, Jim Thompson
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:24:20 -0600, John Fields
>> wrote:
>>
>>[snip]
>>>
>>>From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
>>>
>>>
>>[snip]
>>>
>>>Judaism: 14 million
>>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>John, Do you ever do order-of-magnitude-rationale checks before you
>>post?
>
>---
>Reality checks? Sometimes I do, but not this time.
>
>Yeah, it looked a little high to me too!^)
>
>Got any "real" numbers?

Hell, I think I count 14 million Jews amongst my friends.

Seriously, between Florida and New York State, there's probably 14
million.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

From:	John Fields
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:57:17 -0600

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:45:39 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:20:12 -0600, John Fields
> wrote:

>>---
>>Reality checks? Sometimes I do, but not this time.
>>
>>Yeah, it looked a little high to me too!^)
>>
>>Got any "real" numbers?
>
>Hell, I think I count 14 million Jews amongst my friends.
>
>Seriously, between Florida and New York State, there's probably 14
>million.

---
Here's a link...

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_judaism.html
--
John Fields

From:	Parse Tree
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:24:15 GMT

Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:20:12 -0600, John Fields
> wrote:
>
>
>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:33:32 -0700, Jim Thompson
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:24:20 -0600, John Fields
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>>From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
>>>
>>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>>Judaism: 14 million
>>>>
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>John, Do you ever do order-of-magnitude-rationale checks before you
>>>post?
>>
>>---
>>Reality checks? Sometimes I do, but not this time.
>>
>>Yeah, it looked a little high to me too!^)
>>
>>Got any "real" numbers?
>
>
> Hell, I think I count 14 million Jews amongst my friends.
>
> Seriously, between Florida and New York State, there's probably 14
> million.

No, there are not that many. It only seems like there are a lot because
'jew-ness' is so often talked about in the media. And even then, they
are usually talking about 'ethnic jews' (which is a meaningless term)
rather than religious jews.

From:	keith
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:19:58 -0500

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:24:15 +0000, Parse Tree wrote:

> Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:20:12 -0600, John Fields
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:33:32 -0700, Jim Thompson
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:24:20 -0600, John Fields
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>>From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>>Judaism: 14 million
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>John, Do you ever do order-of-magnitude-rationale checks before you
>>>>post?
>>>
>>>---
>>>Reality checks? Sometimes I do, but not this time.
>>>
>>>Yeah, it looked a little high to me too!^)
>>>
>>>Got any "real" numbers?
>>
>>
>> Hell, I think I count 14 million Jews amongst my friends.
>>
>> Seriously, between Florida and New York State, there's probably 14
>> million.
>
> No, there are not that many. It only seems like there are a lot because
> 'jew-ness' is so often talked about in the media. And even then, they
> are usually talking about 'ethnic jews' (which is a meaningless term)
> rather than religious jews.

Bullshit. An "ethnic" jew is a person who's mother is a jew.

--
Keith

From:	James Knott
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 08:09:28 -0500

keith wrote:

> Bullshit. An "ethnic" jew is a person who's mother is a jew.

Being a "Jew" has nothing to do with ethnicity. It's only religious
beliefs. If you want to consider ethnic factors, then a "Jew" is exactly
the same as a Palestinian. The only thing dividing them, is religious
belief. And as a result, you've got all that violence and murder going on
in the middle east and elsewhere, because of this incredibly stupid
concept, called "religion".

Religious belief is the #1 cause of war in this world.

From:	Parse Tree
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:20:05 GMT

keith wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:24:15 +0000, Parse Tree wrote:
>
>
>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:20:12 -0600, John Fields
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:33:32 -0700, Jim Thompson
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:24:20 -0600, John Fields
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>>From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Judaism: 14 million
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>>John, Do you ever do order-of-magnitude-rationale checks before you
>>>>>post?
>>>>
>>>>---
>>>>Reality checks? Sometimes I do, but not this time.
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, it looked a little high to me too!^)
>>>>
>>>>Got any "real" numbers?
>>>
>>>
>>>Hell, I think I count 14 million Jews amongst my friends.
>>>
>>>Seriously, between Florida and New York State, there's probably 14
>>>million.
>>
>>No, there are not that many. It only seems like there are a lot because
>>'jew-ness' is so often talked about in the media. And even then, they
>>are usually talking about 'ethnic jews' (which is a meaningless term)
>>rather than religious jews.
>
> Bullshit. An "ethnic" jew is a person who's mother is a jew.

Yes, a clear misappropriation of the word 'ethnic' when it doesn't even
match the typical use of the term.

From:	keith
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:49:34 -0500

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:45:39 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:20:12 -0600, John Fields
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:33:32 -0700, Jim Thompson
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:24:20 -0600, John Fields
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>From http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>Judaism: 14 million
>>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>John, Do you ever do order-of-magnitude-rationale checks before you
>>>post?
>>
>>---
>>Reality checks? Sometimes I do, but not this time.
>>
>>Yeah, it looked a little high to me too!^)
>>
>>Got any "real" numbers?
>
> Hell, I think I count 14 million Jews amongst my friends.
>
> Seriously, between Florida and New York State, there's probably 14
> million.

Last numbers I saw were reasonably close to 14 million. Half of them
living in the US and half of those living in NY. Of course the
half-of-a-half also live in Florida, so you're likely double counting them. ;-)

--
Keith

From:	John Fields
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 18:59:30 -0600

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:45:39 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

>>Got any "real" numbers?
>
>Hell, I think I count 14 million Jews amongst my friends.
>
>Seriously, between Florida and New York State, there's probably 14
>million.

---
Here's a link: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_judaism.html
--
John Fields

From:	ParaXerxes
Subject:	Re: What Is God?
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 05:18:51 GMT

arniefufkin wrote:

> Really, "God" (aka perfect human) is a model as a basis for justice.
> That which supports the attributes of a perfect human, is the basis for
> the protection of law. That which is not the attribute of the perfect
> human is punishable by law. Ergo, "God" is only a dividing line (per
> se) to determine what is perfect and what is not. What is not perfect
> wrong, incorrect, erroneous, ambiguous, illogical, punishable....etc...
>
> Whatever else one chooses to believe is just as theoretical yet does
> not exist because it has not manifested itself in law. Ergo, if it does
> not exist (because it has not been written down as law) is conjecture.
> The bible is not law because it has never been accepted as evidence
> since none of it can be proved in the domain of physical existance. At
> best, the bible is "spiritual law" not physical law, and therefore none
> of it can be proved.
>
> Howzat?

If that is a rational argument then you have just admitted to rationality
and science being one great big joke. Everything you said is opinion, not
fact. Prove your case. You have offered absolutely no proof, just blind
opinion according to human concepts.

This is why I have come to detest science and the so-called rationalist.
Dogma and preconceived ideas at every hand.