Okay so its from August, but RCDB has the newer pics buried in the old ones
so I'd missed it til now...

http://www.rcdb.com/ig2667.htm?picture=25

Is it me, or is that track going nowhere? Even if they are going to come
back later and put a pass thru in those supports, the hill on the other side
of the lift is in the way...

From:	Tyler Eaves
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:45:20 -0500

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:16:01 -0500, "Marshall"
wrote:

>Okay so its from August, but RCDB has the newer pics buried in the old ones
>so I'd missed it til now...
>
>http://www.rcdb.com/ig2667.htm?picture=25
>
>Is it me, or is that track going nowhere? Even if they are going to come
>back later and put a pass thru in those supports, the hill on the other side
>of the lift is in the way...
>

Crazy idea: It was a practice section for the construction crew.

From:	Marshall
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:27:33 -0500

"Tyler Eaves" wrote in message
news:cg6lu0di4bh7rsng88iorks3mnulv2893k@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:16:01 -0500, "Marshall"
> wrote:
>
> >Okay so its from August, but RCDB has the newer pics buried in the old
ones
> >so I'd missed it til now...
> >
> >http://www.rcdb.com/ig2667.htm?picture=25
> >
> >Is it me, or is that track going nowhere? Even if they are going to come
> >back later and put a pass thru in those supports, the hill on the other
side
> >of the lift is in the way...
> >
>
> Crazy idea: It was a practice section for the construction crew.

I dont know. I'm pretty sure that this pic actually is the track on the
opposite side of the hill from the other one...

http://www.thegravitygroup.com/hades/pages/24.htm

From:	roller10
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	17 Jan 2005 13:09:46 -0800

Marshall wrote:
> Okay so its from August, but RCDB has the newer pics buried in the
old ones
> so I'd missed it til now...
>
> http://www.rcdb.com/ig2667.htm?picture=25
>
> Is it me, or is that track going nowhere? Even if they are going to
come
> back later and put a pass thru in those supports, the hill on the
other side
> of the lift is in the way...

We have pics of the same section, from near the same time frame. We
laughed. We guessed that it was decided to build out the lift tower in
full, then remove extra structure later, for the passthrough. Perhaps
they wanted as much stability in the partial structure as possible,
until more structure was complete.

Robert Reagan

From:	roller10
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	17 Jan 2005 13:05:24 -0800

Marshall wrote:
> "Tyler Eaves" wrote in message
> news:cg6lu0di4bh7rsng88iorks3mnulv2893k@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:16:01 -0500, "Marshall"
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Okay so its from August, but RCDB has the newer pics buried in the
old
> ones
> > >so I'd missed it til now...
> > >
> > >http://www.rcdb.com/ig2667.htm?picture=25
> > >
> > >Is it me, or is that track going nowhere? Even if they are going
to come
> > >back later and put a pass thru in those supports, the hill on the
other
> side
> > >of the lift is in the way...
> > >
> >
> > Crazy idea: It was a practice section for the construction crew.
>
> I dont know. I'm pretty sure that this pic actually is the track on
the
> opposite side of the hill from the other one...
>
> http://www.thegravitygroup.com/hades/pages/24.htm

I'll second that.

The picture was taken looking up the hill toward the parking lot. Note
the curvature of the track on the tallest hill, as opposed to lift
structure if seen the other way.

Robert Reagan

From:	Marshall
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:55:42 -0500

"roller10" wrote in message
news:1105995924.410016.262650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> I'll second that.
>
> The picture was taken looking up the hill toward the parking lot. Note
> the curvature of the track on the tallest hill, as opposed to lift
> structure if seen the other way.
>
> Robert Reagan
>

Still doesnt explain how the track get from one side of the lift to the
other....

The first teleporting coaster?

From:	roller10
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic... Spoilers
Date:	17 Jan 2005 13:28:41 -0800

Flare wrote:
> ****SPOILERS******
>
> If your curious about the entire layout, here's what I've gathered
about it:
>
> The ride drops out of the station, and into this:
>
> http://www.thegravitygroup.com/hades/pages/22.htm
>
> The train hits the little bunny in the middle of the picture before
you
> enter the bowl... the rise out of that is the semi-double up looking
> stretch, that can be easily spotted in this picture:
>
> http://www.thegravitygroup.com/hades/pages/21.htm
> (The track wasn't completetd in the picture)
>
> From there, I'm pretty sure you dive down into the lift, but I'm not

> positive. The lift drop tunnel, turnaround, tunnel, hill adjacent to
the
> lift, leads into the left hand track in the picture above.
>

You may well be right.

I've been picturing it travelling in the opposite direction between the
station and the lift. From what it looks like to me, the above image 21
looks like the train will go through a kinda double-dip after rising
from the drop out of the station. It seems like it will then cut right
to the fan curve, over the center bunny hop, then left under the final
track, enroute to the base of the lift.

Check out this image:

http://www.thegravitygroup.com/hades/pages/23.htm

That would be the 2nd half of the bunny hop, cut under the final track,
and curve to the lift hill base I described above. (If I'm seeing it
right).

The above travel direction seems more logical, since the largest hill
in the series would be right after the big station exit drop. Then the
little bunny hop, and tight lower left turn would get the train on to
the lift. If that foreground track in image 23 is right after the
station exit drop, it could be pretty brutal, and a maintenance
headache.
Not debating with you Dave, just seeing it differently.

Robert Reagan

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic... Spoilers
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:58:50 GMT

roller10 wrote:

> I've been picturing it travelling in the opposite direction between the
> station and the lift. From what it looks like to me, the above image 21
> looks like the train will go through a kinda double-dip after rising
> from the drop out of the station. It seems like it will then cut right
> to the fan curve, over the center bunny hop, then left under the final
> track, enroute to the base of the lift.

Looking at it again, it does make sense for it to rise into that
unfinished piece of track. You're probably right. I was seeing the
curving of the track as similar on the first drop.

Either way, the opening of the ride is going to very quite unique.
Sprinkles of Ghostrider, Hercules, with some Thunderbolty muscle in the
initial plunge.

Dave

From:	Marshall
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic... Spoilers
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:47:21 -0500

"Flare" wrote in message
news:KZ5Hd.1964$CI6.581@trnddc06...
> roller10 wrote:
>
> > I've been picturing it travelling in the opposite direction between the
> > station and the lift. From what it looks like to me, the above image 21
> > looks like the train will go through a kinda double-dip after rising
> > from the drop out of the station. It seems like it will then cut right
> > to the fan curve, over the center bunny hop, then left under the final
> > track, enroute to the base of the lift.
>
> Looking at it again, it does make sense for it to rise into that
> unfinished piece of track. You're probably right. I was seeing the
> curving of the track as similar on the first drop.
>
> Either way, the opening of the ride is going to very quite unique.
> Sprinkles of Ghostrider, Hercules, with some Thunderbolty muscle in the
> initial plunge.
>

??? Looks to me like it drops outta the station, goes into a mini
out-and-back section with some nice bunnies and then hooks up with the lift.

I think youre confusing a good portion of the return track with the pre-hill
track.
Frex, the two pics I posted above are right before the rising helix into the
final brake run that sits in the crook of Zeus.

From:	Tim Melago
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:59:07 GMT

"Marshall" wrote in message
news:csahqs$147v$1@news.iquest.net...
> Okay so its from August, but RCDB has the newer pics buried in the old
ones
> so I'd missed it til now...
>
> http://www.rcdb.com/ig2667.htm?picture=25
>
> Is it me, or is that track going nowhere? Even if they are going to come
> back later and put a pass thru in those supports, the hill on the other
side
> of the lift is in the way...

You've got me on that one. Here's another view of the "track to nowhere." I
have no idea what's going on with that track.

http://www.rcdb.com/ig2667.htm?picture=23

Even with all of the pictures on RCDB and the new photos on TGGs website I
am still having a tough time figuring out what exactly this coaster is
doing. While the parking lot pictures are intriguing, it's the new pictures
of the low profile track in the woods from the company website that I find
the most promising. I think this is the first US coaster to be built since
Boulder Dash that at least looks like it has a chance to be a coaster that
could rank in my top tier. That said their are no guarantees and I hope this
coaster won't dish out a big serving of anticipointment.

--Tim Melago

From:	flyerace1 at aol.com
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	18 Jan 2005 10:55:38 -0800

Mark Rosenzweig wrote:
> Perhaps if the groin crushers weren't in full force, the first drop
on
> Tsunami would act more like it looks. I know several folks (Flare
one
> of 'em) who claims to have really gotten their dosage of intensity
from
> Tsunami's first drop. I'm with you on the first drop being the least
> eventful portion of an otherwise chaotic filled romp around the
picnic
> grounds.
>
> Another thing to consider besides groin crushing is the fact that
> Tsunami runs only 4 car (two bench) trains. Hades is supposadly
going
> to run a six car (two bench) train (or is it five?) Either way, only
> one train will run on Hades in 2005.
>
> I can't wait to hear of wait times during "ERT" on Hades and
Avalanche
> during the con! I remember back to Spring Con '98 at MAd when
> Shivering Timbers' second train had yet to arrive. With one train
and
> a healthy queue, attendees were lucky to get one maybe two rides
during
> the ERT session. And that wasn't the big event of the year, either!
> -Mark

Dude, Mark, you're still suffering with that bitter taste in your mouth
from attending the worst ACE Con ever! Everyone predicted doom and
gloom for last year's Con at Cedar Point and it turned out to be one of
the best Cons ever. Waits were minimal at every ERT and that included
the big boys. I know, apples and oranges since CP operates at insane
capacities but I'm not expecting anything *too* horrible at this year's
Con in the Dells. If the park operates even 3 of its woodies at a time,
it'll spread the crowd. I'm sure we won't be re-riding over and over
like regional ACE events but I would have to think the park and
planning committee have enough brains to book several rides or coasters
at the same time during an ERT session.

Back to our discussion about Hades. I, for one, am very excited about
this coaster. I was checking out pics of KingaKa and then saw some pics
of this monster and I have to say that I was world's more excited about
Hades (and I love TTD). I'll try not having high hopes and to keep
things fresh, I'll simply glance at photos from time to time (unlike
Flare who likes to examine and analyze them from top to bottom). Plus,
I'm the worst at remembering layouts even after I've ridden coasters
like a dozen times so I'm certain to be surprised. One thing is about
100% certain. Hades will NOT suck, it's just a matter of *how* good
it'll be (as I believe Mike or someone in this post alluded to).

In any case, this year's Con trip will add a lot of new coasters to my
count and most importantly, a lot of good wood coasters! This is
definitely my most anticipated trip in quite some time!

Live to Ride,
Adam Revesz

From:	Mark Rosenzweig
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	18 Jan 2005 09:17:18 -0800

Kip Ross wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:09:49 GMT, Flare
> wrote:
>
> >Unbraked, the airtime on lift hill drop is already set in stone.
>
> I dunno, Tsunami proved that looks can be deceiving. That coaster
> has a *harsh*-looking first drop, and it does absolutely nothing, in
> terms of air and forces.
>
> I remember seeing the photos of Tsunami's first drop, and thinking it
> looked like the ultimate plunge. Turns out, it was the least
exciting
> part of the coaster, IMO.
>
>
Perhaps if the groin crushers weren't in full force, the first drop on
Tsunami would act more like it looks. I know several folks (Flare one
of 'em) who claims to have really gotten their dosage of intensity from
Tsunami's first drop. I'm with you on the first drop being the least
eventful portion of an otherwise chaotic filled romp around the picnic
grounds.

Another thing to consider besides groin crushing is the fact that
Tsunami runs only 4 car (two bench) trains. Hades is supposadly going
to run a six car (two bench) train (or is it five?) Either way, only
one train will run on Hades in 2005.

I can't wait to hear of wait times during "ERT" on Hades and Avalanche
during the con! I remember back to Spring Con '98 at MAd when
Shivering Timbers' second train had yet to arrive. With one train and
a healthy queue, attendees were lucky to get one maybe two rides during
the ERT session. And that wasn't the big event of the year, either!
-Mark

From:	Charles Nungester
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	17 Jan 2005 02:34:11 GMT

>I think this is the first US coaster to be built since
>Boulder Dash that at least looks like it has a chance to be a coaster that
>could rank in my top tier. That said their are no guarantees and I hope this
>coaster won't dish out a big serving of anticipointment.
>
>--Tim Melago
>

Thunderhead isn't Top Tier?

Chuck, who suffered his biggest anticipointment on Boulder Dash.

Charles Nungester
Coaster Count 249

From:	NASHvlMIKE
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	18 Jan 2005 04:18:21 GMT

>coasterfanatic@aol.comnospam (Charles Nungester)

>Thunderhead isn't Top Tier?
>
>Chuck, who suffered his biggest anticipointment on Boulder Dash.

As good as Thunderhead is (and I reserve the right to change my opinion - for
the better, after this years Spring Con and some night ERT), I personally don't
feel it is in the very top tier. It misses that ONE thing -- one steep drop,
one defining moment that all the top tier rides have. It's a damned fine ride,
don't get me wrong, but it misses a "holy shit" moment.

As for BD, I know exactly how you feel to a point -- the FIRST time I rode
BoulderDash I walked off thinking 'eh, nice ride, but not top tier by any
stretch' but on my SECOND trip to BoulderDash, during the ACE preservation Con
(later during another year - august, I believe, which is when the ride runs
well), I COMPLETELY understood what all the type was about. Those night rides
(and a year or two later in August on a non-event day, at night confirming it)
were out of sight. And the reason I think BD is slightly better than Legend or
Raven and sits bettered only by the king of crazy night rides - Tremors.

There's two kinds of Boulderdash riders - those who have ridden in the latter
parts of the summer at night, and those who don't like the ride. I really do
think in 90%+ of the cases, that's true. (not saying there aren't a few people
for whom BD just isn't their cup of tea, but, chuck, given you liked Legend,
you really need to get to BD when it's running well. Trust me on that one)

-m

From:	Jacob Atkinson
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 18:03:52 -0500

I can attest to the early season anticipointment on BD. I believe I rode in
early June and even up till 10PM. I never really experienced anything too
overwhelming. It sits near the bottom part of my top 20. I experienced
hardly any airtime, which on an out and back style ride, was unexceptable.

Jacob

"NASHvlMIKE" wrote in message

> There's two kinds of Boulderdash riders - those who have ridden in the
> latter
> parts of the summer at night, and those who don't like the ride. I really
> do
> think in 90%+ of the cases, that's true. (not saying there aren't a few
> people
> for whom BD just isn't their cup of tea, but, chuck, given you liked
> Legend,
> you really need to get to BD when it's running well. Trust me on that one)
>
> -m
>

From:	NASHvlMIKE
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	18 Jan 2005 04:22:55 GMT

>From: "Tim Melago" rollocst@earthlink.net

>That said their are no guarantees and I hope this
>coaster won't dish out a big serving of anticipointment.

Tim echo's my thoughts exactly.... there is an awful lot of hope, and hype,
about Hades. In some ways, for GG to be considered in the same league as where
the guys (obviously) came from, it HAS to be a huge hit. The pressure's on.
We've seen the pics, we've analyzed it, but the truth is in the riding.

Personally, I'm going to go into this one EXPECTING a little antipointment,
only because we haven't seen a "kick ass" design out of Bill/Miller and crew
for a while and we miss em..... hence the extra pre-ride hype. I hope I'm
wrong, but at this point, I'm not going to walk into that thing expecting a new
#1. Just being personally a tad cautious. I'm sure it will be good - the
question is how good... and I'm going to skip the hype talk and (hopefully) get
to it this year to see for myself. Nothing is set in stone except death, taxes,
and spam...

-m

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:09:49 GMT

NASHvlMIKE wrote:
> Tim echo's my thoughts exactly.... there is an awful lot of hope, and hype,
> about Hades. In some ways, for GG to be considered in the same league as where
> the guys (obviously) came from, it HAS to be a huge hit. The pressure's on.
> We've seen the pics, we've analyzed it, but the truth is in the riding.

No doubt. I've already got a tipped lid for all people involved with
Hades, though. The enthusiast community is can be a huge wankfest of
people crying out for bigger, or badder, more insane rides. On paper,
and from what I've seen of the pictures, it's going to be impossible to
hold several defining moments back from the rider.

> Personally, I'm going to go into this one EXPECTING a little antipointment,
> only because we haven't seen a "kick ass" design out of Bill/Miller and crew
> for a while and we miss em..... hence the extra pre-ride hype.

You might be right, Mike. But I really think this ride could have been
designed by Mr. Noname, and given it's stats, and what it's looking
like, people would be talking just the same. Sure, I think there's a
degree of credibility and notoriety to the history of the individuals
responsible for the design, but the truth is, this ride was designed (in
my mind) to be full of huge moments. On that level, it may be what
you're referring to in regards to "extra hype".

> I hope I'm wrong, but at this point, I'm not going to walk into that thing expecting a new
> #1. Just being personally a tad cautious. I'm sure it will be good - the
> question is how good... and I'm going to skip the hype talk and (hopefully) get
> to it this year to see for myself. Nothing is set in stone except death, taxes,
> and spam...

Unbraked, the airtime on lift hill drop is already set in stone. The
drop out of the station in back? Pretty close to that. The drop back
into the tunnel, more or the same. It doesn't matter what you do, if you
compare this ride, technically, to others that have come before it, it
should really deliver (and I'm only referring to one commodity for the
ride).

The only thing I'm honestly, worried about is that the ride will have
WAY to much power coming off the lift. In case anyone was sort of
leaving that in the back of the discussion, the drop is still 154 feet,
at an angle of 65 degrees. I'm imagining it'll hit 65 m.p.h. or so.

It's going to be nuts, however you look at it. Especially considering
the 2 tunnel segments will each last 6+ seconds. That can seem like an
eternity in coastering time.

Dave

From:	Kip Ross
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:54:41 -0500

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:09:49 GMT, Flare
wrote:

>Unbraked, the airtime on lift hill drop is already set in stone.

I dunno, Tsunami proved that looks can be deceiving. That coaster
has a *harsh*-looking first drop, and it does absolutely nothing, in
terms of air and forces.

I remember seeing the photos of Tsunami's first drop, and thinking it
looked like the ultimate plunge. Turns out, it was the least exciting
part of the coaster, IMO.

-kip-

From:	Matt Crowther
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:58:55 GMT

In article ,
Flare wrote:

>
> The only thing I'm honestly, worried about is that the ride will have
> WAY to much power coming off the lift. In case anyone was sort of
> leaving that in the back of the discussion, the drop is still 154 feet,
> at an angle of 65 degrees. I'm imagining it'll hit 65 m.p.h. or so.
>
> It's going to be nuts, however you look at it. Especially considering
> the 2 tunnel segments will each last 6+ seconds. That can seem like an
> eternity in coastering time.
>

The biggest concern I have about this coaster is will the park be able
to keep up with the very high maintenence costs that this ride is sure
to have? 154 feet is right on the cusp of what I consider to be too high
to be practical with a wooden coaster, unless the park has a *lot* of
money earmarked for annual upkeep. Look at the other woodies with drops
in that range- SOB, Mean Streak, TX Giant, The Boss. All of the
aforeentioned rides have had very bad problems with roughness, and all
of those coasters are in large corporate parks where they presumably
have a larger maintenence budget than Olympus does. It will be very
interesting to see how Hades holds up over a period of years- I wonder
if the park really knew what it was getting into- although the fact they
have three woodies already may help in that regard.

Matt

From:	William J. Buckley
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 02:45:16 GMT

"Matt Crowther" wrote:

> The biggest concern I have about this coaster is will the park be able
> to keep up with the very high maintenence costs that this ride is sure
> to have? 154 feet is right on the cusp of what I consider to be too high
> to be practical with a wooden coaster, unless the park has a *lot* of
> money earmarked for annual upkeep. Look at the other woodies with drops
> in that range- SOB, Mean Streak, TX Giant, The Boss. All of the
> aforeentioned rides have had very bad problems with roughness, and all
> of those coasters are in large corporate parks where they presumably
> have a larger maintenence budget than Olympus does.

Thank you!! Truer words were never spoken.

Esp. with a steel structure (remember, it doesn't flex, so the forces go
back through YOU!), if that track ain't maintained, *I* wouldn't wanna be
the person riding it in season two!

-me

From:	mamoosh
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 03:59:28 GMT

"William J. Buckley" wrote in message
news:0RjHd.4663$rs2.904@trndny07...

> Thank you!! Truer words were never spoken.

Good to see I'm not the only one with concerns. I keep thinking about
another record-breaking woodie that also had a name beginning with "H"
and also had a PTC train hitting a curve at 60+ MPH. And I can't
think of a woodie over 120 feet [i.e. taller than Shivering Timbers]
that hasn't been problematic in terms of maintenance.

Hades is certainly one to watch.

From:	Wolf
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:15:11 -0500

>> Thank you!! Truer words were never spoken.
>
> Good to see I'm not the only one with concerns. I keep thinking about
> another record-breaking woodie that also had a name beginning with "H"
> and also had a PTC train hitting a curve at 60+ MPH. And I can't
> think of a woodie over 120 feet [i.e. taller than Shivering Timbers]
> that hasn't been problematic in terms of maintenance.
>
> Hades is certainly one to watch.

ST is 122', isn't it? =)

--
|\-/|
<0 0>
=(o)=
-Wolf

From:	Marshall
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 03:34:15 -0500

"Wolf" wrote in message
news:kfWdnd0yfr9NQ3DcRVn-2A@giganews.com...
> >> Thank you!! Truer words were never spoken.
> >
> > Good to see I'm not the only one with concerns. I keep thinking about
> > another record-breaking woodie that also had a name beginning with "H"
> > and also had a PTC train hitting a curve at 60+ MPH. And I can't
> > think of a woodie over 120 feet [i.e. taller than Shivering Timbers]
> > that hasn't been problematic in terms of maintenance.
> >
> > Hades is certainly one to watch.
>

And this coaster is going to have a loonnngggg s-curve at very high speed.
After riding Zeus, I'm glad I already have plans to get back this summer
because I bet by next year Hades will make SOB look glass smooth.

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:26:27 GMT

Marshall wrote:

> And this coaster is going to have a loonnngggg s-curve at very high speed.
> After riding Zeus, I'm glad I already have plans to get back this summer
> because I bet by next year Hades will make SOB look glass smooth.

SOB will never seem glass smooth in any way shape or form...no matter
WHAT. It was/is a piece of shit design, and a piece of shit execution. I
can only imagine the geniuses at PKI responsible for all that wood think
about it.

Come to think of it, I didn't know woodies could be "Glass Smooth,"
Marshall. I have yet to ride one that is what I'd consider to be smooth
that way.

Hades may seem, to many, destined to fall short or fail on any number of
levels. It very well might. It also has the potential to be THE most
exciting modern day woodie built to date. The one thing you can be
certain of, is the fact that it will deliver on very specific levels.
There's may be 2 places that might really cause some maintenance whoas.
It's not as though the entire ride is the "S-Curve". I don't know why a
people are thinking in such ways.

Nobody really knows what's going to happen in that tunnel. I believe
that they're intentionally veering it post 90 degrees for the exact
reason that people are saying it's going to be a "maintenance headache."
My guess is that it will rise about 4 feet and spiral to a hair past 90
degrees before it really begins rounding the 2nd portion of the S-Curve
(the first portion is going to be a slight veer, nothing major by the
way). This way the turn is taken like a sideways hill (if you will).

Least to forget: They have a fortress structure of support in place in
that concrete tunnel. They have the ability to reinforce the support
structure on to the concrete walls. I have no clue if that'll happen,
but the point is there is potential opportunity to build structural
support in a different way for this portion of the ride.

Dave

From:	William J. Buckley
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 00:40:52 GMT

"Flare" wrote:

> Come to think of it, I didn't know woodies could be "Glass Smooth,"
> Marshall. I have yet to ride one that is what I'd consider to be smooth
> that way.

Well, both Intamin woodies with the pre-fab tracks (Colossus and Balder) are
as smooth as any (good) B&M steelie.

And in the mid-90s, GE's Comet was also super-smooth.

From:	Locoboy
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:09:53 GMT

"Flare" wrote in
message news:7etHd.17551$c%6.14354@trnddc03...
>
>
> Come to think of it, I didn't know woodies could be "Glass
> Smooth," Marshall. I have yet to ride one that is what I'd
> consider to be smooth that way.

Colossos perhaps, but that's just an assumption based on
other people's comments about that woodies' smoothness.

From:	Victor Canfield
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:46:08 -0500

Flare wrote:

> Nobody really knows what's going to happen in that tunnel.

Except that the outgoing trip in the tunnel will be taken at sustained
high speed. Does anybody know the height of the turnaround?

From:	Marshall
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 03:13:14 -0500

"Flare" wrote in message
news:7etHd.17551$c%6.14354@trnddc03...
> Marshall wrote:
>
> > And this coaster is going to have a loonnngggg s-curve at very high
speed.
> > After riding Zeus, I'm glad I already have plans to get back this summer
> > because I bet by next year Hades will make SOB look glass smooth.
>
> SOB will never seem glass smooth in any way shape or form...no matter
> WHAT. It was/is a piece of shit design, and a piece of shit execution. I
> can only imagine the geniuses at PKI responsible for all that wood think
> about it.
>

Uhh, thats the point. It was an analogy taken to absurdity.

> Come to think of it, I didn't know woodies could be "Glass Smooth,"
> Marshall. I have yet to ride one that is what I'd consider to be smooth
> that way.
>

From seeing how well a realtively simple coaster like Zeus is maintained, I
think its a safe bet that a complex monster like Hades is in for a short
rideability life-cycle. Is that more clear?

> Hades may seem, to many, destined to fall short or fail on any number of
> levels. It very well might. It also has the potential to be THE most
> exciting modern day woodie built to date. The one thing you can be
> certain of, is the fact that it will deliver on very specific levels.
> There's may be 2 places that might really cause some maintenance whoas.
> It's not as though the entire ride is the "S-Curve". I don't know why a
> people are thinking in such ways.
>

Looks like a fan-friggin-tastic ride. I cant wait to get up there and ride
it. But you'd better do it this year, because by next year....

We know it veers right at the bottom of lift hill and goes into a gently
ascending sharp left. That left has to be highly banked or it will kill
people.
We also know that the coaster makes a left turn before it climbs outta the
tunnel and up the turn-around.
Unless those two turns are the same, there has to be either a 270 left hand
helix or a right turn in there.
Personally, I'm betting on a right/left/right/left slalom with some minor
elevation changes.

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 11:56:19 GMT

Marshall wrote:

> "Flare" wrote in message
> news:7etHd.17551$c%6.14354@trnddc03...

>>SOB will never seem glass smooth in any way shape or form...no matter
>>WHAT. It was/is a piece of shit design, and a piece of shit execution. I
>>can only imagine the geniuses at PKI responsible for all that wood think
>>about it.
>>
>
>
> Uhh, thats the point. It was an analogy taken to absurdity.

No the point is you're assuming things about Hades in regards to it's
construction, and likening it to something far beyond a crappy ass ride
in SoB. That's the absurdity. It hasn't even opened yet, Marshall.

> From seeing how well a realtively simple coaster like Zeus is maintained, I
> think its a safe bet that a complex monster like Hades is in for a short
> rideability life-cycle. Is that more clear?

Not really. When was Zeus built? 8 years ago? Who was the foreman on the
job? What type of wood was used to construct it. What are they using for
Hades? What's going on in the management world of Mt. Olympus as it
turns into what it's becoming.

>>Hades may seem, to many, destined to fall short or fail on any number of
>>levels. It very well might. It also has the potential to be THE most
>>exciting modern day woodie built to date. The one thing you can be
>>certain of, is the fact that it will deliver on very specific levels.
>>There's may be 2 places that might really cause some maintenance whoas.
>>It's not as though the entire ride is the "S-Curve". I don't know why a
>>people are thinking in such ways.
>>
>
>
> Looks like a fan-friggin-tastic ride. I cant wait to get up there and ride
> it. But you'd better do it this year, because by next year....

It very well might STILL be an exceptionally fantastic (or shitty) ride!
>
> We know it veers right at the bottom of lift hill and goes into a gently
> ascending sharp left. That left has to be highly banked or it will kill
> people.

That's untrue. Do you know the radius of the left hook? I've said it
before: I believe the angle on the left turn was engineered into the
ride to prevent more severe wear and tear on that stretch of track. I
might be absolutely wrong, but that's me belief.

> We also know that the coaster makes a left turn before it climbs outta the
> tunnel and up the turn-around.
> Unless those two turns are the same, there has to be either a 270 left hand
> helix or a right turn in there.

The hook of the S-Curve isn't even a full 180 degrees. I'm not sure what
you're putting in your Wheaties, but you should investigate.

> Personally, I'm betting on a right/left/right/left slalom with some minor
> elevation changes.

Don't bet the farm on it, cause you're incorrect, Marshall. Look at some
visuals on the tunnel if you don't believe me.

Dave

From:	Marshall
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:44:01 -0500

"Flare" wrote in message
news:D%MHd.13157$Os6.12120@trnddc08...
> Marshall wrote:
>
> >
> > Uhh, thats the point. It was an analogy taken to absurdity.
>
> No the point is you're assuming things about Hades in regards to it's
> construction, and likening it to something far beyond a crappy ass ride
> in SoB. That's the absurdity. It hasn't even opened yet, Marshall.
>

And the 'construction' angle is an entirely moot point...Unless you believe
that wear is not going to occur?

> > From seeing how well a realtively simple coaster like Zeus is
maintained, I
> > think its a safe bet that a complex monster like Hades is in for a short
> > rideability life-cycle. Is that more clear?
>
> Not really. When was Zeus built? 8 years ago? Who was the foreman on the
> job? What type of wood was used to construct it. What are they using for
> Hades? What's going on in the management world of Mt. Olympus as it
> turns into what it's becoming.
>

And that all pales once its compared to the maintenance it has gotten. You
cannot honestly claim that Zeus is a well-maintained coaster.

> >
> > We know it veers right at the bottom of lift hill and goes into a gently
> > ascending sharp left. That left has to be highly banked or it will kill
> > people.
>
> That's untrue. Do you know the radius of the left hook? I've said it
> before: I believe the angle on the left turn was engineered into the
> ride to prevent more severe wear and tear on that stretch of track. I
> might be absolutely wrong, but that's me belief.
>

Uhh, I'm agreeing with you. What are you arguing about?
OTOH you still have a @ 30% turn with little banking(there isnt room for
high bank right to traverse to high bank left) leading into 90%+ turn that
is taken at nearly the max speed of the coaster. I tend to agree that the
left is going to be supported by the wall instead of the floor(making it
like an overbank). And unless I'm way off on the distances here the coaster
is now halfway to the turnaround and headed straight for Top Secret.

> > We also know that the coaster makes a left turn before it climbs outta
the
> > tunnel and up the turn-around.
> > Unless those two turns are the same, there has to be either a 270 left
hand
> > helix or a right turn in there.
>
> The hook of the S-Curve isn't even a full 180 degrees. I'm not sure what
> you're putting in your Wheaties, but you should investigate.
>

Never said it was, I'm thinking @30 right 100 left 130 right 130 left up
into the turnaround. A lot like what a downhill skier does to slalom.

> > Personally, I'm betting on a right/left/right/left slalom with some
minor
> > elevation changes.
>
> Don't bet the farm on it, cause you're incorrect, Marshall. Look at some
> visuals on the tunnel if you don't believe me.
>

Thats the question, are those pics of the same portion of the tunnel from
two different directions? If so, its a vere right hard left and up into the
turnaround with about the same tunnel time as the Beast has after the
midcourse. And since I dont remember seeing daylight leaking thru from the
other end of tunnel, like there would be if that was it, I think the coaster
has to do something else underground.

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:13:21 GMT

Marshall wrote:

> Uhh, I'm agreeing with you. What are you arguing about?
> OTOH you still have a @ 30% turn with little banking(there isnt room for
> high bank right to traverse to high bank left) leading into 90%+ turn
that
> is taken at nearly the max speed of the coaster. I tend to agree that the
> left is going to be supported by the wall instead of the floor(making it
> like an overbank). And unless I'm way off on the distances here the
coaster
> is now halfway to the turnaround and headed straight for Top Secret.

Okay, lemme know what Top Secret land is when you get there in your
dreams! :-)p

> Never said it was, I'm thinking @30 right 100 left 130 right 130 left up
> into the turnaround. A lot like what a downhill skier does to slalom.

Seriously? No wonder you think Hades will destroy itself.

>>>Personally, I'm betting on a right/left/right/left slalom with some
minor
elevation changes.
>>
>>Don't bet the farm on it, cause you're incorrect, Marshall. Look at some
>>visuals on the tunnel if you don't believe me.
>>
> Thats the question, are those pics of the same portion of the tunnel from
> two different directions?

I'm not sure which you are referring to, but if they're the ones I'm
thinking of, look again, and check for the big tonka truck in the
background in both shots. There's no doubt that many of the pictures of
the terrain (parking lot/construction area with trenches) between the
first drop and turnaround are quite deceiving.

If so, its a vere right hard left and up into the
> turnaround with about the same tunnel time as the Beast has after the
> midcourse.

What the heck are you talking about??? Beast? Mid-course? WTF?

We're talking about Hades. It doesn't have a mid-course anything, from
what I can tell.

Beast? Huh?

And since I dont remember seeing daylight leaking thru from the
> other end of tunnel, like there would be if that was it, I think the
coaster
> has to do something else underground.

You won't necessarily see daylight depending on the way the sun is
hitting a tunnel; especially this tunnel, as its opening under the first
drop is subgrade. Take for example:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/179545755/179547775qqDOdo

You can't see beyond 80 feet from a straight on angle there. It's
important to point out that in pictures, distances can be really
deceiving. Incidentally, check out the bucket to get some perspective of
size and distance. (the bucket's about 21" or so)

When the train blazes into the tunnel off the 1st drop, it will begin to
turn about 100 feet in or so. It'll burn through a good 250 feet on the
right veering turn (~ 45 degree direction change); then it will burn
through another 100 feet, bringing it to the (~)120 degree left hand
turn with the radical banking. That turn will burn another 150 in track,
with another 100 feet getting the train to the climb out of the tunnel.

I still could be completely wrong. But, that's honestly how I see it.
It'll be fun to find out who's right. The funny thing is, is that
there's not a single picture that does a good job of depicting the true
"perceived" distance between the first drop tunnel entrance and the
turnaround exit.

I need to see a shrink about this ride...lol.

Dave

From:	Marshall
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 02:15:47 -0500

"Flare" wrote in message
news:BUgId.11656$Vx2.9268@trndny01...
> Marshall wrote:
> And unless I'm way off on the distances here the
> coaster
> > is now halfway to the turnaround and headed straight for Top Secret.
>
> Okay, lemme know what Top Secret land is when you get there in your
> dreams! :-)p
>

Top Secret is the funhouse next-door to MtO...

> > Never said it was, I'm thinking @30 right 100 left 130 right 130 left
up
> > into the turnaround. A lot like what a downhill skier does to slalom.
>
> Seriously? No wonder you think Hades will destroy itself.
>

Really. The angle on this shot is throwing me off.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/133348116/133377564DfTFRi

It looks like a lot sharper turn than it is.

>
> I'm not sure which you are referring to, but if they're the ones I'm
> thinking of, look again, and check for the big tonka truck in the
> background in both shots. There's no doubt that many of the pictures of
> the terrain (parking lot/construction area with trenches) between the
> first drop and turnaround are quite deceiving.
>

Compare that one to this one

http://community.webshots.com/photo/133348116/133377638zvrgYD

You have to do some strange perception gymnastics to get them to line up,
but I guess they do.

> If so, its a vere right hard left and up into the
> > turnaround with about the same tunnel time as the Beast has after the
> > midcourse.
>
> What the heck are you talking about??? Beast? Mid-course? WTF?
>
> We're talking about Hades. It doesn't have a mid-course anything, from
> what I can tell.
>
> Beast? Huh?
>

Hades Tunnel will feel like(and last as long as) Beasts post-mid-course
tunnel, circa 1984 or so. Just a guess.

> You won't necessarily see daylight depending on the way the sun is
> hitting a tunnel; especially this tunnel, as its opening under the first
> drop is subgrade. Take for example:
>
> http://community.webshots.com/photo/179545755/179547775qqDOdo
>

Yeah, the veer is sharper than I thought and the curve is a lot longer than
that first shot up there indicates.

> You can't see beyond 80 feet from a straight on angle there. It's
> important to point out that in pictures, distances can be really
> deceiving. Incidentally, check out the bucket to get some perspective of
> size and distance. (the bucket's about 21" or so)
>

There are 20 "pylons" deep that you can see, so anywhere between 40-80'.
From the looks of it the 21st 'pylon' is offset since you should be able to
see it in the reflection. Is the track allready banking at the bottom of the
hill?

> When the train blazes into the tunnel off the 1st drop, it will begin to
> turn about 100 feet in or so. It'll burn through a good 250 feet on the
> right veering turn (~ 45 degree direction change); then it will burn
> through another 100 feet, bringing it to the (~)120 degree left hand
> turn with the radical banking. That turn will burn another 150 in track,
> with another 100 feet getting the train to the climb out of the tunnel.
>
> I still could be completely wrong. But, that's honestly how I see it.
> It'll be fun to find out who's right. The funny thing is, is that
> there's not a single picture that does a good job of depicting the true
> "perceived" distance between the first drop tunnel entrance and the
> turnaround exit.
>

Yeah, you talked me into it. I'm not so sure about where the higher banking
is tho. Thats a Looong curve to be banked that high.

> I need to see a shrink about this ride...lol.
>
> Dave
>

Lol. Got a good one in mind?

>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:20:40 GMT

Marshall wrote:

> Really. The angle on this shot is throwing me off.
>
> http://community.webshots.com/photo/133348116/133377564DfTFRi
>
> It looks like a lot sharper turn than it is.

That's absolutey the case... It's still a "sharp" turn, in my book. I'm
nearly positive that this will be the overbanked before the pull out
into the turnaround.

>>I'm not sure which you are referring to, but if they're the ones I'm
>>thinking of, look again, and check for the big tonka truck in the
>>background in both shots. There's no doubt that many of the pictures of
>>the terrain (parking lot/construction area with trenches) between the
>>first drop and turnaround are quite deceiving.
>>
>
>
> Compare that one to this one
>
> http://community.webshots.com/photo/133348116/133377638zvrgYD
>
> You have to do some strange perception gymnastics to get them to line up,
> but I guess they do.

Like I said, it's all about that Dirt Loader in the background.

> Hades Tunnel will feel like(and last as long as) Beasts post-mid-course
> tunnel, circa 1984 or so. Just a guess.

It's been a while since I've been on The Beast, but I'll most certainly
take your word for it.
>
>
>>You won't necessarily see daylight depending on the way the sun is
>>hitting a tunnel; especially this tunnel, as its opening under the first
>>drop is subgrade. Take for example:
>>
>>http://community.webshots.com/photo/179545755/179547775qqDOdo
>>
>
> Yeah, the veer is sharper than I thought and the curve is a lot longer than
> that first shot up there indicates.

Well, I don't think it's going to be brutally sharp... Again, there's a
good distance that will go into that turn, I believe. There's even the
possibility that that turn may start gradually and tighting at the end.
Of interesting note is that visible in that picture (I photoshopped it
to draw out the contrast), there are 3 distinct concrete levels. You can
actually make them out if you really look. So at about 300 feet or so,
the track should dip down a few feet as it finishes the right hand turn.

>>You can't see beyond 80 feet from a straight on angle there. It's
>>important to point out that in pictures, distances can be really
>>deceiving. Incidentally, check out the bucket to get some perspective of
>>size and distance. (the bucket's about 21" or so)
>>
>
>
> There are 20 "pylons" deep that you can see, so anywhere between 40-80'.
> From the looks of it the 21st 'pylon' is offset since you should be able to
> see it in the reflection. Is the track allready banking at the bottom of the
> hill?

If you're referring to the "turn" being banked, I don't think so. It's a
completely straight drop into the tunnel.

>>When the train blazes into the tunnel off the 1st drop, it will begin to
>>turn about 100 feet in or so. It'll burn through a good 250 feet on the
>>right veering turn (~ 45 degree direction change); then it will burn
>>through another 100 feet, bringing it to the (~)120 degree left hand
>>turn with the radical banking. That turn will burn another 150 in track,
>>with another 100 feet getting the train to the climb out of the tunnel.
>>
>>I still could be completely wrong. But, that's honestly how I see it.
>>It'll be fun to find out who's right. The funny thing is, is that
>>there's not a single picture that does a good job of depicting the true
>>"perceived" distance between the first drop tunnel entrance and the
>>turnaround exit.
>
> Yeah, you talked me into it. I'm not so sure about where the higher banking
> is tho. Thats a Looong curve to be banked that high.

When I give the degrees, I'm referring to changes in direction. I
believe the first turn will be slighting banked and the 2nd turn will be
banked more than 90 degrees, speaking in terms of track profiling.

>>I need to see a shrink about this ride...lol.
>>
> Lol. Got a good one in mind?

I'll let everyone know when I find one! :-)

Dave

From:	William J. Buckley
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:58:14 GMT

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:13:21 GMT, Flare wrote:

>I need to see a shrink about this ride...lol.
>Dave

[in a bad German accent..] "ve thinks ve found de problem! you feel like
your father, he never loved you. dis is why you have dis fixation with dis
Hades roller coaster, ja?"

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:59:21 GMT

William J. Buckley wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:13:21 GMT, Flare wrote:
>
>
>>I need to see a shrink about this ride...lol.
>>Dave
>
>
> [in a bad German accent..] "ve thinks ve found de problem! you feel like
> your father, he never loved you. dis is why you have dis fixation with dis
> Hades roller coaster, ja?"

lmao...

Ich kann nicht aufhalten, an Achterbahnen zu denken. Ich verliere mein
fickenes Gemüt. Ich muss Hilfe!1!!!1Q@! finden! Jetzt!!@!!1@2!!

:-)

Dave

From:	BaSSiStiSt
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:12:20 GMT

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:13:21 GMT, Flare
wrote:

>I need to see a shrink about this ride...lol.
>Dave

I'll say.

Step AWAAY from the construction pics, Sir!

;-p

Mike Miller

OMG, I'm a CreHo

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:54:20 GMT

BaSSiStiSt wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:13:21 GMT, Flare
> wrote:
>
>
>>I need to see a shrink about this ride...lol.
>>Dave
>
>
> I'll say.
>
> Step AWAAY from the construction pics, Sir!
>
> ;-p

You know how you can shit diamonds out your whistling dog patch? Well,
this is my version of overplannalyzing, Count Bassey!

Man, it's been a while since I got swept away in Flarespeak.

All I can say is pray it's a long solved mystery in May...lol.

;-p

By the way, did the Spam Turd media arrive yet?

Dave
- Pulls the ticket trigger...

From:	BaSSiStiSt
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:24:39 GMT

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:54:20 GMT, Flare
wrote:

>You know how you can shit diamonds out your whistling dog patch? Well,
>this is my version of overplannalyzing, Count Bassey!

Note to self: locate the "No Flarespeak" sign from Short Bus 1 and
give it a good polishing. ;-)

>All I can say is pray it's a long solved mystery in May...lol.

I'm avoiding all construction pics after those ones Murray sent
around. I want to be surprised this summer.

>By the way, did the Spam Turd media arrive yet?

That's a negative, but the mail's not here yet today.

>Dave
>- Pulls the ticket trigger...

Woot!

Mike Miller

OMG, I'm a CreHo

From:	mamoosh
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 02:41:12 GMT

"BaSSiStiSt" wrote in message
news:41f2c3b4.72223437@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...

> Note to self: locate the "No Flarespeak" sign from
> Short Bus 1 and give it a good polishing. ;-)

I've got the sign but I'm gonna give something else a good polishing
instead ;-)

mOOSH [did I say that out loud?]

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:12:40 GMT

mamoosh wrote:
> "BaSSiStiSt" wrote in message
> news:41f2c3b4.72223437@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
>
>
>>Note to self: locate the "No Flarespeak" sign from
>>Short Bus 1 and give it a good polishing. ;-)
>
>
> I've got the sign but I'm gonna give something else a good polishing
> instead ;-)

Looks to me like Hades got a nice polishing. However, I don't think
anything's going to cool this ride down.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v295/raventtd/?action=view¤t=100_0033.jpg

Dave

From:	AirtimeJunkie
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	24 Jan 2005 02:40:38 GMT

There should be some serious air on that hill before the tunnel..can't wait!

Kevin

From:	Wolf
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:45:30 -0500

>> And this coaster is going to have a loonnngggg s-curve at very high
>> speed.
>> After riding Zeus, I'm glad I already have plans to get back this summer
>> because I bet by next year Hades will make SOB look glass smooth.
>
> SOB will never seem glass smooth in any way shape or form...no matter
> WHAT. It was/is a piece of shit design, and a piece of shit execution. I
> can only imagine the geniuses at PKI responsible for all that wood think
> about it.

Changing trains and train geometry would go a long way towards improving
this ride.

> Come to think of it, I didn't know woodies could be "Glass Smooth,"
> Marshall. I have yet to ride one that is what I'd consider to be smooth
> that way.

SFGAm's Viper.

For reasons I don't understand, is butter smooth. It's like the wood
feels... soft.

Rollo Coaster feels the same way.

> Nobody really knows what's going to happen in that tunnel. I believe that
> they're intentionally veering it post 90 degrees for the exact reason that
> people are saying it's going to be a "maintenance headache." My guess is
> that it will rise about 4 feet and spiral to a hair past 90 degrees before
> it really begins rounding the 2nd portion of the S-Curve (the first
> portion is going to be a slight veer, nothing major by the way). This way
> the turn is taken like a sideways hill (if you will).

I wish there were a bunny hidden in there. That would be great, a sustained
air hill, underground, in pitch darkness. Absolutely wicked.

> Least to forget: They have a fortress structure of support in place in
> that concrete tunnel. They have the ability to reinforce the support
> structure on to the concrete walls. I have no clue if that'll happen, but
> the point is there is potential opportunity to build structural support in
> a different way for this portion of the ride.

I wonder if they are gonna foam the walls to deaden the sound some. A wooden
coaster could be deafening in a concrete trench like that.

--
|\-/|
<0 0>
=(o)=
-Wolf

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	Thu, 20 Jan 2005 02:14:02 GMT

Wolf wrote:
>>Come to think of it, I didn't know woodies could be "Glass Smooth,"
>>Marshall. I have yet to ride one that is what I'd consider to be smooth
>>that way.
>
>
> SFGAm's Viper.
>
> For reasons I don't understand, is butter smooth. It's like the wood
> feels... soft.
>
> Rollo Coaster feels the same way.

While I've thought of certain woodies as "smooth" (Viper is a good
example for sure), the term butter or glass smooth, to me, just doesn't
seem to apply. I haven't ridden the new school Intamin woodies, though.

> I wish there were a bunny hidden in there. That would be great, a sustained
> air hill, underground, in pitch darkness. Absolutely wicked.

Totally! But I'm fairly certain there isn't clearance for that. However,
there should be a slight dip down as the train finishes the 1st part of
the S-Curve. As I said, I believe the track will then gradually rise up,
twist and power through the hook, hit an unexpected pop up, and then
(after the pop up) enter the pull out. Suffice to say, it's going to be
be around 7-8.5 seconds each way. That's a LONG ass time with the lights
out, travelling at a speed like that.

> I wonder if they are gonna foam the walls to deaden the sound some. A wooden
> coaster could be deafening in a concrete trench like that.

Yeah.... Sitting in the back seat is going to be something insane.

Dave

From:	steelforce at aol.come2Mypark (Sam Marks)
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	18 Jan 2005 13:38:45 GMT

i've been having this horrible image of the train pooping out just before the
crest of the 2nd hill..... its from that one pic that makes it look like the
lift is about 2 miles from the turn. I wish they'd have something, like smoke
and red lights in the tunnel, and even a heater array signifying that you're
passing thru "hades" in the tunnel.

SAM

From:	Flare
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic... Spoilers
Date:	Mon, 17 Jan 2005 01:48:18 GMT

Tim Melago wrote:

> Even with all of the pictures on RCDB and the new photos on TGGs website I
> am still having a tough time figuring out what exactly this coaster is
> doing. While the parking lot pictures are intriguing, it's the new pictures
> of the low profile track in the woods from the company website that I find
> the most promising. I think this is the first US coaster to be built since
> Boulder Dash that at least looks like it has a chance to be a coaster that
> could rank in my top tier. That said their are no guarantees and I hope this
> coaster won't dish out a big serving of anticipointment.

I totally agree, Tim. I dissected Boulder Dash when it was being built,
and really got a good sense of what that thing was going to be. I
sometimes have a fascination seeing if I can accurately predict a ride.
So far, the only thing that scares me about Hades is the 2nd turn after
the first drop.

****SPOILERS******

The track to "nowhere" in the RCDB picture is going back into the station.

If your curious about the entire layout, here's what I've gathered about it:

The ride drops out of the station, and into this:

http://www.thegravitygroup.com/hades/pages/22.htm

The train hits the little bunny in the middle of the picture before you
enter the bowl... the rise out of that is the semi-double up looking
stretch, that can be easily spotted in this picture:

http://www.thegravitygroup.com/hades/pages/21.htm
(The track wasn't completetd in the picture)

From there, I'm pretty sure you dive down into the lift, but I'm not
positive. The lift drop tunnel, turnaround, tunnel, hill adjacent to the
lift, leads into the left hand track in the picture above.

This piece of track...

http://www.thegravitygroup.com/hades/pages/24.htm

....you hit after careening down that long, curving stretch. I really
think this sequence will be a standout part of the ride...open air,
unbridled speed in a nice wooden setting. That hill in the picture is
the 2nd of 2; hopefully they'll buck with some authority.

You then fly through the lift hill structure, jam into the rising helix,
up into the brake run, that stretch of track on RCDB that you're
scratching your head about. ;-)

This ride is going to have it all. Huge everything, and a LONG, power
layout. A must ride

Dave

From:	Tim Melago
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic... Spoilers
Date:	Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:28:18 GMT

"Flare" wrote in message
news:CPEGd.1649$CI6.914@trnddc06...
> ****SPOILERS******

Thanks for info. I didn't mind reading the spoilers because there is no way
I'll have a clue what that coasters is doing until I ride it. Thunderhead
took several rides before I could remember most of the layout. Beyond
knowing the layout there is always the surprise about finding out how each
section of track performs. But like I said, I like the potential this ride
may have.

--Tim

From:	Ted Ansley
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic... Spoilers
Date:	Mon, 17 Jan 2005 04:45:00 GMT

Is there a drawing of the Hades' layout available anywhere?

The photos look pretty good!

--------------------------
Ted Ansley
ansley@usa.com
RollerCoaster Fan

From:	rollocst at earthlink.net
Subject:	Re: Funny Hades pic...
Date:	19 Jan 2005 05:56:36 -0800

Charles Nungester wrote:

> Thunderhead isn't Top Tier?

I rank it #15 so that would be about third tier for me. I definitely
enjoy the ride but I only have Timbers, BD and Tremors in my top tier.
Just a matter of preferences. That said, I think Thunderhead may have
exceeded my expectations based on what I saw from construction pictures
and the fact that it was a GCI. But with Hades I at least see a coaster
that has enough of the type of elements that could possibly challenge
my top ten coasters. I plan to hit both coasters during ACE event ERTs
this upcoming season.

--Tim Melago