Could Prions Be In Milk
And Dairy? - Yes
What Animal Products Are Free Of Prions?
ECureMe.com
12-6-2

Many consumers have become aware of at least some of these compelling
statistics regarding prion-related diseases. This has naturally
prompted questions as to which animal products present risk to humans.
Most of the focus of late has been on beef, which is warranted.
Although organ tissue carries the greatest risk, animal studies do
suggest that meat (from animal muscle alone) can transmit prion-related
diseases.47 This is not surprising since muscle is interlaced with
lymph and nervous tissue--two tissues known to be infected with BSE.48
However, we cannot exclude the possibility that milk may also carry
disease-inducing prions. Many may recall how some years ago assurances
were given that a mother could not pass HIV to her child by nursing.49
Of course, we now know that HIV can be transmitted in breast milk.50

Granted, prion diseases are vastly different from HIV. The risk from
milk does appear to be much smaller than from eating beef or cattle
organ tissues. Nonetheless, a British BSE expert has pointed out that
at least one human case suggests passage of prions in milk. A Japanese
woman dying of CJD was found to have the infectious agent in her
colostrum (the type of breast milk made in the initial days following
delivery).51 Milk has been under suspicion in established medical
circles. It was one of the products targeted when the United Kingdom
was beginning to recognize the magnitude of the mad cow problem. The
action taken against milk by the British government is explained in
Figure 11: Milk from BSE Infected Cattle is Banned.52

Both humans and animals were banned from consuming an infected cow's
milk. Unfortunately, as we have already noted, animals are infected
with the BSE prion long before they manifest any symptoms. When
infected symptom-free cows are milked, their milk is mixed in
collection tanks with milk from healthy cows. If the prion is present
in milk, it could theoretically contaminate the whole collection tank.
Pasteurization cannot destroy prions, so that process provides no
consolation. Although at this time it cannot be stated for certain that
milk can transmit a prion-related disease, many are wondering: is it
worth taking the chance?

Eating the flesh of animals other than cows or drinking their milk may
not be safe either. These other animals may also be infected with
prion-related diseases. As already mentioned, some 20 animal species,
including sheep and goats, can become infected with the transmissible
spongiform encephalopathies. Suspicions are also raised concerning
products made from animal glands. Health food stores often feature a
variety of supplements that include glandular extracts. These agents
appear to have a higher risk of prion contamination and thus I think it
is prudent to avoid them.

References
47 Dealler S, Lacey R. Beef and bovine spongiform encephalopathy: the
risk persists. Nutr Health 1991;7(3):117-133.

48 Groschup MH, Weiland F, Pfaff E "Detection of scrapie agent in the
peripheral nervous system of diseased sheep." Goettingen prion meeting
November 1995 http://www.airtime.co.uk/bse/intm.htm

49 Jelliffe DB, Jelliffe EF. HIV and breastmilk: non-proven alarmism. J
Trop Pediatr 1988 Aug;34(4):142.

50 US Dept. Of Health and Human Services. Managing Early HIV Infection
Quick Reference Guide for Clinicians: Number 7. AHCPR Publication No.
94-0573, January 1994 p. 14.

51 Tamai Y, Kojima H, et al. Demonstration of the transmissible agent
in tissue from a pregnant woman with Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. N Engl
J Med 1992 Aug 27;327(9):649.

52 Pratt K. Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy. Fact sheet. Animal and
Plant Health Inspection Services (APHIS). U.S. Department of
Agriculture, 1991Jul p. 1.

Notice of Credit
The article above is compliments of the Uchee Pines Institute, Seale,
Alabama, a teaching and treatment facility devoted to natural remedies.
For mor information, call 334-855-4781,e-mail: ucheepine@csi.com, or
visit their Website: http://www.ucheepines.org.

http://www.ecureme.com/emyhealth/natural/n_animal_diseases7.asp

From:	Oz
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:36:44 +0000

Scented Nectar writes
>The EU bans anyone from using the milk from
>any animal that has a TSE, even when it's just
>scrapie. Here is a ProMed post about it. It's
>also interesting that they think a goat may have
>developed BSE. Why do they ban the milk if
>it's not a possible risk?

Its worth remembering that the modern diagnostics tests apply to dead
animals in the main. Its also worth remembering that the uk had some
180,000 clinical cases of BSE (mostly in dairy cows). So in practice
milk from infected cows was drunk by the general population.

Its worth noting that milk was not infectious when inoculated into the
brains of susceptible mice.

Its also worth noting that as a matter of fact my family and myself
drunk untreated milk from pre-clinical bse cows. We had 13 cases, some
of whom incubated the disease for some 9 years before succumbing.

I posted elsewhere

===================
Er, let's just get this in perspective....

The UK had 200,000 cases of clinical BSE in cattle.
Its estimated that 500,000 - 1M preclinical BSE infected cattle were
eaten by the UK population (these would have been positive on modern
testing).

There have been about 120 cases of vCJD in the UK, and the number is now
slowly decreasing. Approximately 20 people a year died of this out of a
population of 60M.

And you stupid americans get in a fluster because you find a couple of
pre-clinical bse cases? Really, you are so mindless.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_health/Dh2_29/DH2No29.pdf

In 2002, deaths in the UK:
540,000 deaths
16,000 died from poisoning or injury
3,000 from traffic accidents
2,500 from falls (100 from falls involving bed)
20-odd from vCJD

So try very hard not to run around like headless chickens.
====================

--
Oz

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:48:37 GMT

Oz wrote:
<...>
> And you stupid americans get in a fluster because you find a couple of
> pre-clinical bse cases? Really, you are so mindless.

She's *Canadian*.

> http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_health/Dh2_29/DH2No29.pdf
>
> In 2002, deaths in the UK:
> 540,000 deaths
> 16,000 died from poisoning or injury
> 3,000 from traffic accidents
> 2,500 from falls (100 from falls involving bed)
> 20-odd from vCJD
>
> So try very hard not to run around like headless chickens.

But that's her specialty.

From:	Jim Webster
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:06:07 -0000

"usual suspect" wrote in message
news:pBuId.59575$Z%.31704@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> Oz wrote:
> <...>
> > And you stupid americans get in a fluster because you find a couple of
> > pre-clinical bse cases? Really, you are so mindless.
>
> She's *Canadian*.
>
she used to claim to be Irish

Jim Webster

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:24:52 GMT

Jim Webster wrote:
<...>
>>>And you stupid americans get in a fluster because you find a couple of
>>>pre-clinical bse cases? Really, you are so mindless.
>>
>>She's *Canadian*.
>
> she used to claim to be Irish

That was in reference to Scented Nectar, not ~~peril~~. Lesley (pearl)
also claims to be Jewish, a skinhead, and an engineering school drop
out. I'm sure you're aware of her beliefs that the earth is hollow and a
gang of enlightened beings live beneath Mount Shasta, California.
Strange little woman.

From:	Jim Webster
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:21:54 -0000

"usual suspect" wrote in message
news:o7vId.42661$_56.32002@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> Jim Webster wrote:
> <...>
> >>>And you stupid americans get in a fluster because you find a couple of
> >>>pre-clinical bse cases? Really, you are so mindless.
> >>
> >>She's *Canadian*.
> >
> > she used to claim to be Irish
>
> That was in reference to Scented Nectar, not ~~peril~~. Lesley (pearl)
> also claims to be Jewish, a skinhead, and an engineering school drop
> out. I'm sure you're aware of her beliefs that the earth is hollow and a
> gang of enlightened beings live beneath Mount Shasta, California.
> Strange little woman.

yes, I was the one who pointed out to her that Mount Shasta does a lot of
winter sports and skiing

Jim Webster

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:12:58 -0000

"usual suspect" wrote in message news:o7vId.42661$_56.32002@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> Jim Webster wrote:
> <...>
> >>>And you stupid americans get in a fluster because you find a couple of
> >>>pre-clinical bse cases? Really, you are so mindless.
> >>
> >>She's *Canadian*.

usual liar is Texan.

> > she used to claim to be Irish
>
> That was in reference to Scented Nectar, not ~~peril~~. Lesley (pearl)
> also claims to be Jewish,

True.

> a skinhead,

Lie #1.

> and an engineering school drop out.

Lie #2.

> I'm sure you're aware of her beliefs that the earth is hollow

You snipped the question;

"When does a spherical object 'ring like a bell'".

Why?

> and a
> gang of enlightened beings live beneath Mount Shasta, California.

Found a photograph similar to the one here yet, suspect?
http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/OddPics/Shasta.html

> Strange little woman.

Sad little man.

From:	Jim Webster
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 09:10:51 -0000

"Oz" wrote in message
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_health/Dh2_29/DH2No29.pdf
>
> In 2002, deaths in the UK:
> 540,000 deaths
> 16,000 died from poisoning or injury
> 3,000 from traffic accidents
> 2,500 from falls (100 from falls involving bed)
> 20-odd from vCJD
>
> So try very hard not to run around like headless chickens.
> ====================

Oz, you are cruel. There they are trying to whip up a nice bit of hysteria,
ride a few old hobby horses and really enjoy themselves by scaring
themselves witless over something that they know to be irrelevent, and you
come along and spoil it.

Jim Webster

From:	Oz
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:39:28 +0000

Jim Webster writes

>The fact that many tens of thousands of cattle in the UK have had the
>disease

About 200,000 confirmed positive cases in cattle.

Most estimates suggest about 1,000,000 cattle in total were infected.

>but so few people have been infected show the level of risk that the
>US has to face

Typical yanks, just can't bear to find they have only a teeny weeny
insignificant infection and try to talk it up mindlessly....

--
Oz

From:	Abner Hale
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	21 Jan 2005 19:53:36 -0800

banmilk@hotmail.com wrote:
> Not So.
>
> You are no expert on TSEs.
You are no expert on anything, you fat stupid git.

From:	Oz
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:56:53 +0000

usual suspect writes
>Oz wrote:
><...>
>> And you stupid americans get in a fluster because you find a couple of
>> pre-clinical bse cases? Really, you are so mindless.
>
>She's *Canadian*.

unnnagth?

Oh, so she is....

Just goes to show .....

--
Oz

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:14:01 GMT

some stupid scaremonger wrote:
> Could Prions Be In Milk
> And Dairy?

No.

> What Animal Products Are Free Of Prions?

Plenty.

> Many consumers have become aware of at least some of these compelling

NOT compelling.

> statistics regarding prion-related diseases. This has naturally
> prompted questions as to which animal products present risk to humans.

Most of them are.

> Most of the focus of late has been on beef, which is warranted.

Marginally warranted. Experts predicted that everyone in the UK would be
shaking and babbling incoherently by now. With the exceptions of Ray
Slater and George Michael, they seem to be fine. There was no epidemic.
Researchers are now downgrading their projections.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1620289.stm
http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/news.asp?id=7656

<...>
> Granted, prion diseases are vastly different from HIV.

THEN WHY RAISE SUCH COMPARISONS, IDIOT?

> The risk from
> milk does appear to be much smaller than from eating beef or cattle
> organ tissues. Nonetheless, a British BSE expert has pointed out that
> at least one human case suggests passage of prions in milk.

ONE case does not an epidemic make.

> A Japanese
> woman dying of CJD was found to have the infectious agent in her
> colostrum (the type of breast milk made in the initial days following
> delivery).

Prions in *HER* milk doesn't demonstrate that consumption of BOVINE
DAIRY PRODUCTS is a means of transmission of a TSE. Idiot.

<...>
> Eating the flesh of animals other than cows or drinking their milk may
> not be safe either. These other animals may also be infected with
> prion-related diseases. As already mentioned, some 20 animal species,
> including sheep and goats, can become infected with the transmissible
> spongiform encephalopathies.

Scrapie, the TSE which affects sheep and goats, is NOT transmissible to
humans.

There is no scientific evidence to indicate that scrapie poses a
risk to human health. There is no epidemiologic evidence that
scrapie of sheep and goats is transmitted to humans, such as
through contact on the farm, at slaughter plants, or butcher
shops.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/fsheet_faq_notice/fs_ahscrapie.html

Scrapie is *specific* to sheep and goats. Scrapie does not infect
humans. We've lived with scrapie for almost 300 years. It was the first
known TSE, first described in 1730:
http://w3.aces.uiuc.edu/AnSci/BSE/Index_Timeline.htm

Stop peddling MISINFORMATION and DISINFORMATION. Milk is safe. So is
goat meat. So is lamb.

From:	Scented Nectar
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:50:15 -0500

The EU bans anyone from using the milk from
any animal that has a TSE, even when it's just
scrapie. Here is a ProMed post about it. It's
also interesting that they think a goat may have
developed BSE. Why do they ban the milk if
it's not a possible risk?

--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

TSE, GOATS - EU: 1ST SEMESTER, 2004
*******************************
A ProMED-mail post

ProMED-mail is a program of the
International Society for Infectious Diseases

Date: Wed 19 Jan 2005
From: ProMED-mail
Source: Kathimerini, Athens, 19 Jan 2005 [edited]
5_51930>

Brain disease in Greek goats
-----------------------------
12 Greek goats were found to be suffering from the brain-wasting disease
scrapie in the 1st half of 2004, EU figures that were made public
yesterday
[18 Jan 2005] revealed.

The data, issued by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA), show that
12
cases of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSE) were discovered
in
Greece, 8 in Cyprus and 26 in France out of some 17 294 goats tested
throughout the EU in 2004 [Apparently, these figures refer to the 1st
semester of 2004. - Mod.AS]. The figures were made public by Left
Coalition
Synaspismos MEP Dimitris Papadopoulos.

Meanwhile, tests are continuing in the case of a French goat slaughtered
in
2002, which experts think may have developed BSE [See comment]. The EU
bans
the use of milk and meat from herds affected by a TSE case.

--
ProMED-mail

[The results of tests in goats for TSE's, during the 1st semester of
2004,
are presented in table form, available at
04_en.pdf>.
The figures are arranged in 4 groups: "Eradication"; "Risk animals"
(mostly, animals found dead on farms; also some emergency slaughtered
animals and animals with clinical signs during ante-mortem inspection in
slaughterhouses); "Healthy animals" (Healthy animals subject to normal
slaughter) and "TSE suspects" (Animals reported as TSE clinical
suspect).

Positive and pending cases have been reported in the following
countries:
Greece: 12 positive, 0 pending. (All positives were TSE suspects).
Spain: 0
positive, 2 pending (in "risk animals"). Portugal: 0 positive, 48
pending
(3 in "risk animals," 45 in "healthy animals"). Cyprus: 8 positive, 0
pending. (All the positives in "risk animals").

The total number of adult goats in EU's 25 member countries is about 9.5
million, compared with 66 million adult sheep. The leading goat breeding
countries are (millions of adult animals): Greece (3.9), Spain (2.33),
France (1.03), Italy (0.82), Portugal (0.39), Cyprus (0.3) and
Netherlands
(0.2).

On 30 Nov 2004, EU's Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee (SEAC)
was informed that a definitive interpretation of the French data on a
goat
suspected of BSE could not be provided by the Community Reference
Laboratory (CRL) for TSEs (based in Weybridge, England) until further
data
from mouse bioassays were available in about 2 months. Those results are
anticipated with great interest. - Mod.AS]

[see also:
2004
----
BSE, goats - France 2002 (03): susp 20041211.3279
BSE, goats - France 2002 (02): susp 20041119.3097
BSE, goats - France 2002: susp. 20041030.2929
Scrapie, atypical, sheep - UK and Ireland 20041210.3274]
................mpp/arn/msp/mpp

*##########################################################*
************************************************************
ProMED-mail makes every effort to verify the reports that
are posted, but the accuracy and completeness of the
information, and of any statements or opinions based
thereon, are not guaranteed. The reader assumes all risks in
using information posted or archived by ProMED-mail. ISID
and its associated service providers shall not be held
responsible for errors or omissions or held liable for any
damages incurred as a result of use or reliance upon posted
or archived material.
************************************************************
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Send all items for posting to: promed@promedmail.org
(NOT to an individual moderator). If you do not give your
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From:	Jim Webster
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 07:44:50 -0000

"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
news:WoWdnU2nRNJuI2zcRVn-jA@rogers.com...
> The EU bans anyone from using the milk from
> any animal that has a TSE, even when it's just
> scrapie. Here is a ProMed post about it. It's
> also interesting that they think a goat may have
> developed BSE. Why do they ban the milk if
> it's not a possible risk?

just because the EU bans something doesn't mean that there is a known risk.
It is banned basically as a PR issue.
Also from a technical point, by the time it is obvious an animal has BSE she
is impossible to milk, it is too dangerous for the chap doing it.
Prior to that, while she has BSE but it is undiagnosed, the milk does go for
human consumption.

The fact that many tens of thousands of cattle in the UK have had the
disease but so few people have been infected show the level of risk that the
US has to face

Jim Webster

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:47:29 -0000

"Jim Webster" wrote in message news:cst0c2$mq1$4@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

> The fact that many tens of thousands of cattle in the UK have had the
> disease but so few people have been infected show the level of risk that the
> US has to face

' People who develop CJD from eating mad-cow-contaminated beef
have been thought to develop a specific form of the disorder called
variant CJD. But new research (see reference at the end of part [1] above)
indicates the mad cow pathogen can cause both sporadic CJD and the
variant form. "Now people are beginning to realize that because something
looks like sporadic CJD they can't necessarily conclude that it's not linked
to (mad cow disease)," said Laura Manuelidis, Section Chief of Surgery in
the Neuropathology Department at Yale University, who conducted a
1989 study that found 13 percent of Alzheimer's patients actually had CJD.
Several studies, including the one by Manuelidis, have found autopsies
reveal 3-13 percent of patients diagnosed with Alzheimer's or dementia
actually suffered from CJD. Those numbers might sound low, but there
are 4 million Alzheimer's cases and hundreds of thousands of dementia
cases in the United States. A small percentage of those cases could add
up to 120 000 or more CJD victims going undetected and not included
in official statistics.

At the same time autopsies have been declining, the number of deaths
attributed to Alzheimer's has increased more than 50-fold since 1979,
going from 857 deaths then to nearly 50 000 in 2000. Though it is
unlikely that the dramatic increase in Alzheimer's is due entirely to
misdiagnosed CJD cases, it "could explain some of the increase we've
seen," Manuelidis said.
....'
http://foodhaccp.com/msgboard.mv?parm_func=showmsg+parm_msgnum=1012907

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:01:22 GMT

~~peril~~ wrote:
<...>
> At the same time autopsies have been declining, the number of deaths
> attributed to Alzheimer's has increased more than 50-fold since 1979,

Where's the epidemic, Lesley?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1620289.stm
http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/news.asp?id=7656

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:50:52 -0000

"usual suspect" wrote in message news:mNuId.42655$_56.5499@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> ~~peril~~ wrote:
> <...>
> > At the same time autopsies have been declining, the number of deaths
> > attributed to Alzheimer's has increased more than 50-fold since 1979,
>
> Where's the epidemic,

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/News_and_Campaigns/Policy_Watch/demography.htm

From:	Jim Webster
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:20:46 -0000

"pearl" wrote in message
news:ct0799$q36$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "usual suspect" wrote in message
news:mNuId.42655$_56.5499@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > ~~peril~~ wrote:
> > <...>
> > > At the same time autopsies have been declining, the number of deaths
> > > attributed to Alzheimer's has increased more than 50-fold since 1979,
> >
> > Where's the epidemic,
>
>
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/News_and_Campaigns/Policy_Watch/demography.htm

read the page before posting it. All it points out is there will be an
increase because the population of older people is increasing

"It is estimated that by 2010 there will be about 870,000 people with
dementia in the UK
This is expected to rise to over 1.8 million people with dementia by 2050.
Many people talk about the 'demographic time bomb' or 'tidal wave' of older
people which the state cannot afford to cater for. The Society believes that
this is misleading. A steady, rather than dramatic growth is expected over
the next 25 years. The Society's contribution to the Royal Commission on
Long Term Care highlights the belief that the state can provide for people's
needs as they age. The use of phrases such as the demographic time bomb, or
the view that older people are a burden on our society, does not encourage
the view that a sustainable system can be developed. "

It is always worth checking web pages pearl/lotus quotes, they are a most
amazing selection and regularly disprove her argument

Jim Webster

>
>

From:	Jim Webster
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:54:44 -0000

"pearl" wrote in message
news:cstpo8$ubq$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "Jim Webster" wrote in message
news:cst0c2$mq1$4@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> > The fact that many tens of thousands of cattle in the UK have had the
> > disease but so few people have been infected show the level of risk that
the
> > US has to face
>
> ' People who develop CJD from eating mad-cow-contaminated beef
> have been thought to develop a specific form of the disorder called
> variant CJD. But new research (see reference at the end of part [1] above)
> indicates the mad cow pathogen can cause both sporadic CJD and the
> variant form. "Now people are beginning to realize that because something
> looks like sporadic CJD they can't necessarily conclude that it's not
linked
> to (mad cow disease)," said Laura Manuelidis, Section Chief of Surgery in
> the Neuropathology Department at Yale University, who conducted a
> 1989 study that found 13 percent of Alzheimer's patients actually had CJD.
> Several studies, including the one by Manuelidis, have found autopsies
> reveal 3-13 percent of patients diagnosed with Alzheimer's or dementia
> actually suffered from CJD. Those numbers might sound low, but there
> are 4 million Alzheimer's cases and hundreds of thousands of dementia
> cases in the United States. A small percentage of those cases could add
> up to 120 000 or more CJD victims going undetected and not included
> in official statistics.
>
> At the same time autopsies have been declining, the number of deaths
> attributed to Alzheimer's has increased more than 50-fold since 1979,
> going from 857 deaths then to nearly 50 000 in 2000. Though it is
> unlikely that the dramatic increase in Alzheimer's is due entirely to
> misdiagnosed CJD cases, it "could explain some of the increase we've
> seen," Manuelidis said.
> ...'
> http://foodhaccp.com/msgboard.mv?parm_func=showmsg+parm_msgnum=1012907
>

sorry pearl, but no matter how many crap references you come up with, you
cannot come up with any evidence that matters. Howl up a really good health
scare if you like, but you just end up looking like an idiot. In the UK we
had over 180,000 clinical BSE cases in cows, the vast majority milk cows,
and the vast majority of them milking for human consumption before they were
diagnosed. The best estimates are that somewhere between 200,000 and 500,000
animals were eaten by people with no precautions taken at all
Hey and we had 120 cases of nvCJD.
What the Americans have to worry about is shroud waving idiots who have
their own research budgets to finance, desperate to whip up a health scare
to get funding.
The money is better spent on something useful

Jim Webster

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:51:54 -0000

"Jim Webster" wrote in message news:cstt4m$ddi$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
>
> "pearl" wrote in message
> news:cstpo8$ubq$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > "Jim Webster" wrote in message
> news:cst0c2$mq1$4@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > > The fact that many tens of thousands of cattle in the UK have had the
> > > disease but so few people have been infected show the level of risk that the
> > > US has to face
> >
> > ' People who develop CJD from eating mad-cow-contaminated beef
> > have been thought to develop a specific form of the disorder called
> > variant CJD. But new research (see reference at the end of part [1] above)
> > indicates the mad cow pathogen can cause both sporadic CJD and the
> > variant form. "Now people are beginning to realize that because something
> > looks like sporadic CJD they can't necessarily conclude that it's not linked
> > to (mad cow disease)," said Laura Manuelidis, Section Chief of Surgery in
> > the Neuropathology Department at Yale University, who conducted a
> > 1989 study that found 13 percent of Alzheimer's patients actually had CJD.
> > Several studies, including the one by Manuelidis, have found autopsies
> > reveal 3-13 percent of patients diagnosed with Alzheimer's or dementia
> > actually suffered from CJD. Those numbers might sound low, but there
> > are 4 million Alzheimer's cases and hundreds of thousands of dementia
> > cases in the United States. A small percentage of those cases could add
> > up to 120 000 or more CJD victims going undetected and not included
> > in official statistics.
> >
> > At the same time autopsies have been declining, the number of deaths
> > attributed to Alzheimer's has increased more than 50-fold since 1979,
> > going from 857 deaths then to nearly 50 000 in 2000. Though it is
> > unlikely that the dramatic increase in Alzheimer's is due entirely to
> > misdiagnosed CJD cases, it "could explain some of the increase we've
> > seen," Manuelidis said.
> > ...'
> > http://foodhaccp.com/msgboard.mv?parm_func=showmsg+parm_msgnum=1012907
> >
>
> sorry pearl,

You will be.

> but no matter how many crap references you come up with, you
> cannot come up with any evidence that matters. Howl up a really good health
> scare if you like, but you just end up looking like an idiot. In the UK we
> had over 180,000 clinical BSE cases in cows, the vast majority milk cows,
> and the vast majority of them milking for human consumption before they were
> diagnosed. The best estimates are that somewhere between 200,000 and 500,000
> animals were eaten by people with no precautions taken at all
> Hey and we had 120 cases of nvCJD.
> What the Americans have to worry about is shroud waving idiots who have
> their own research budgets to finance, desperate to whip up a health scare
> to get funding.
> The money is better spent on something useful
>
> Jim Webster
>
>

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:19:35 -0000

"pearl" wrote in message news:ct07b6$q3f$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "Jim Webster" wrote in message news:cstt4m$ddi$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> >
> > "pearl" wrote in message
> > news:cstpo8$ubq$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > > "Jim Webster" wrote in message
> > news:cst0c2$mq1$4@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > >
> > > > The fact that many tens of thousands of cattle in the UK have had the
> > > > disease but so few people have been infected show the level of risk that the
> > > > US has to face
> > >
> > > ' People who develop CJD from eating mad-cow-contaminated beef
> > > have been thought to develop a specific form of the disorder called
> > > variant CJD. But new research (see reference at the end of part [1] above)
> > > indicates the mad cow pathogen can cause both sporadic CJD and the
> > > variant form. "Now people are beginning to realize that because something
> > > looks like sporadic CJD they can't necessarily conclude that it's not linked
> > > to (mad cow disease)," said Laura Manuelidis, Section Chief of Surgery in
> > > the Neuropathology Department at Yale University, who conducted a
> > > 1989 study that found 13 percent of Alzheimer's patients actually had CJD.
> > > Several studies, including the one by Manuelidis, have found autopsies
> > > reveal 3-13 percent of patients diagnosed with Alzheimer's or dementia
> > > actually suffered from CJD. Those numbers might sound low, but there
> > > are 4 million Alzheimer's cases and hundreds of thousands of dementia
> > > cases in the United States. A small percentage of those cases could add
> > > up to 120 000 or more CJD victims going undetected and not included
> > > in official statistics.
> > >
> > > At the same time autopsies have been declining, the number of deaths
> > > attributed to Alzheimer's has increased more than 50-fold since 1979,
> > > going from 857 deaths then to nearly 50 000 in 2000. Though it is
> > > unlikely that the dramatic increase in Alzheimer's is due entirely to
> > > misdiagnosed CJD cases, it "could explain some of the increase we've
> > > seen," Manuelidis said.
> > > ...'
> > > http://foodhaccp.com/msgboard.mv?parm_func=showmsg+parm_msgnum=1012907
> > >
> >
> > sorry pearl,
>
> You will be.

That comes across as a threat,- which is not intended.

Read as 'You should be'.

> > but no matter how many crap references you come up with, you
> > cannot come up with any evidence that matters. Howl up a really good health
> > scare if you like, but you just end up looking like an idiot. In the UK we
> > had over 180,000 clinical BSE cases in cows, the vast majority milk cows,
> > and the vast majority of them milking for human consumption before they were
> > diagnosed. The best estimates are that somewhere between 200,000 and 500,000
> > animals were eaten by people with no precautions taken at all
> > Hey and we had 120 cases of nvCJD.
> > What the Americans have to worry about is shroud waving idiots who have
> > their own research budgets to finance, desperate to whip up a health scare
> > to get funding.
> > The money is better spent on something useful
> >
> > Jim Webster
> >
> >
>
>

From:	Jim Webster
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:12:31 -0000

"pearl" wrote in message
news:ct08v3$qju$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "pearl" wrote in message
news:ct07b6$q3f$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > "Jim Webster" wrote in message
news:cstt4m$ddi$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > >
> > >
> > > "pearl" wrote in message
> > > news:cstpo8$ubq$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > > > "Jim Webster" wrote in message
> > > news:cst0c2$mq1$4@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > >
> > > > > The fact that many tens of thousands of cattle in the UK have had
the
> > > > > disease but so few people have been infected show the level of
risk that the
> > > > > US has to face
> > > >
> > > > ' People who develop CJD from eating mad-cow-contaminated beef
> > > > have been thought to develop a specific form of the disorder called
> > > > variant CJD. But new research (see reference at the end of part [1]
above)
> > > > indicates the mad cow pathogen can cause both sporadic CJD and the
> > > > variant form. "Now people are beginning to realize that because
something
> > > > looks like sporadic CJD they can't necessarily conclude that it's
not linked
> > > > to (mad cow disease)," said Laura Manuelidis, Section Chief of
Surgery in
> > > > the Neuropathology Department at Yale University, who conducted a
> > > > 1989 study that found 13 percent of Alzheimer's patients actually
had CJD.
> > > > Several studies, including the one by Manuelidis, have found
autopsies
> > > > reveal 3-13 percent of patients diagnosed with Alzheimer's or
dementia
> > > > actually suffered from CJD. Those numbers might sound low, but there
> > > > are 4 million Alzheimer's cases and hundreds of thousands of
dementia
> > > > cases in the United States. A small percentage of those cases could
add
> > > > up to 120 000 or more CJD victims going undetected and not included
> > > > in official statistics.
> > > >
> > > > At the same time autopsies have been declining, the number of deaths
> > > > attributed to Alzheimer's has increased more than 50-fold since
1979,
> > > > going from 857 deaths then to nearly 50 000 in 2000. Though it is
> > > > unlikely that the dramatic increase in Alzheimer's is due entirely
to
> > > > misdiagnosed CJD cases, it "could explain some of the increase we've
> > > > seen," Manuelidis said.
> > > > ...'
> > > >
http://foodhaccp.com/msgboard.mv?parm_func=showmsg+parm_msgnum=1012907
> > > >
> > >
> > > sorry pearl,
> >
> > You will be.
>
> That comes across as a threat,- which is not intended.
>
> Read as 'You should be'.
>

why should I be sorry that you continue to display a singular ignorance of
reality and persist in posting discredited or outdated websites?

You have been saying we will be sorry about nvCJD for several years and the
numbers of people suffering has been falling steadily and the estimates,
previously in millions, are struggling to reach a thousand
You are going to have to find something else to get hysterical over
Jim Webster

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:40:02 GMT

Stupid Nectar wrote:
> The EU bans anyone from using the milk from
> any animal that has a TSE, even when it's just
> scrapie. Here is a ProMed post about it.

Stop putting entire articles in your sig file, idiot.

> It's
> also interesting that they think a goat may have
> developed BSE.

No, it tested for an atypical strain of TSE. That doesn't mean it has
BSE, it could just be a variant of scrapie.

The sample came from a goat aged two and a half years when it
was slaughtered in 2002. This goat was the only animal affected
in its herd of origin, which totalled 600 animals (300 adult
goats in production and 300 young goats). The whole herd was
culled and all the adult goats were tested at that time, with
negative results. All the carcasses, including that of the
affected goat, were destroyed....

[T]he tentative diagnosis is not all that unusual. There are
several "atypical" TSE cases reported and under investigation
around the world in sheep and goats. Since there are really no
"standards" for diagnosing BSE in anything other than a bovine,
atypical case tissue is being placed into mice for further
diagnostic work.
http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=610

> Why do they ban the milk if
> it's not a possible risk?

For the same reason entire herds are culled rather than those which
actually have a TSE: to ease public concerns and restore confidence in
food safety. Ask your ranchers out in Alberta about that sometime. Even
one isolated instance can cripple an entire industry.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1105531380871_57/?hub=TopStories

From:	Scented Nectar
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 11:14:15 -0500

> > The EU bans anyone from using the milk from
> > any animal that has a TSE, even when it's just
> > scrapie. Here is a ProMed post about it.
>
> Stop putting entire articles in your sig file, idiot.

The article was posted below my sig. Is that a crime?
Does that hurt you somehow? You sound so whiney
and cranky.

> > It's
> > also interesting that they think a goat may have
> > developed BSE.
>
> No, it tested for an atypical strain of TSE. That doesn't mean it has
> BSE, it could just be a variant of scrapie.

Actually the test they are awaiting results on
IS testing for BSE not scrapies.

> [T]he tentative diagnosis is not all that unusual. There are
> several "atypical" TSE cases reported and under investigation
> around the world in sheep and goats. Since there are really no
> "standards" for diagnosing BSE in anything other than a bovine,
> atypical case tissue is being placed into mice for further
> diagnostic work.
> http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=610

The mice testing is what they are awaiting results on.
This IS a nonbovine way to test for it. The 'further
diagnostic work' is what they're doing already.

--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:47:14 -0000

"usual suspect" wrote in message news:J8fId.40527$_56.31800@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> Scrapie, the TSE which affects sheep and goats, is NOT transmissible to
> humans.

'New research by Professor Stanley Prusiner strongly suggests
that the infective prion agent that causes BSE is found in sheep
but at levels which have, until now, been undetectable. Prusiner,
professor of neurology at the University of California in San
Francisco, won the the Nobel prize for discovering prions. His
laboratories are among the world leaders in such research.

Last week he said: "The implication of our latest work is that
BSE is endemic throughout the British national sheep flock."
.......
A paper due out shortly in EMBO Journal by Raymond, Bossers,
Caughey, et al. supports some aspects of Prusiner's position. The
in vitro conversion test shows scrapie, BSE, and CWD have low
but non-zero risks of converting human prion to the abnormal form;
this has been a reliable proxy in the past. While it isn't clear yet
whether the same strain of scrapie mentioned by Prusiner was
among those studied, taken together it would seem that some strains
of scrapie might be of special concern in regards to direct sheep
scrapie to human transmission. The new data is much stronger than,
and trumps, older epidemiological questionaires about scrapie and
CJD that the industry has relied on.
.......
http://www.mad-cow.org/00/jul00_dont_eat_sheep.html .

From:	Jim Webster
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:05:19 -0000

"pearl" wrote in message
news:cstpnn$ubm$1@kermit.esat.net...
> "usual suspect" wrote in message
news:J8fId.40527$_56.31800@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > Scrapie, the TSE which affects sheep and goats, is NOT transmissible to
> > humans.
>
> 'New research by Professor Stanley Prusiner strongly suggests
> that the infective prion agent that causes BSE is found in sheep
> but at levels which have, until now, been undetectable. Prusiner,
> professor of neurology at the University of California in San
> Francisco, won the the Nobel prize for discovering prions. His
> laboratories are among the world leaders in such research.
>
> Last week he said: "The implication of our latest work is that
> BSE is endemic throughout the British national sheep flock."
> ......

no, pearl/lotus, he didn't say it last week, you are quoting an old report,
he said it during the middle of 2000

And what actually happened was that a scare was whipped up, it looked as if
the entire UK sheep flock would be slaughtered, until someone admitted that
they had actually used cattle brain by mistake to inject into the mice
rather than sheep brain, so all their experiments had proved was that cattle
that died of BSE had BSE

Please try to keep up to date and stop mendaciously quoting obsolete and
discredited stories
Jim Webster

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:16:40 -0000

"Jim Webster" wrote in message news:csttj3$t59$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "pearl" wrote in message
> news:cstpnn$ubm$1@kermit.esat.net...
> > "usual suspect" wrote in message
> news:J8fId.40527$_56.31800@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > > Scrapie, the TSE which affects sheep and goats, is NOT transmissible to
> > > humans.
> >
> > 'New research by Professor Stanley Prusiner strongly suggests
> > that the infective prion agent that causes BSE is found in sheep
> > but at levels which have, until now, been undetectable. Prusiner,
> > professor of neurology at the University of California in San
> > Francisco, won the the Nobel prize for discovering prions. His
> > laboratories are among the world leaders in such research.
> >
> > Last week he said: "The implication of our latest work is that
> > BSE is endemic throughout the British national sheep flock."
> > ......
>
> no, pearl/lotus, he didn't say it last week, you are quoting an old report,
> he said it during the middle of 2000

http://www.mad-cow.org/00/jul00_dont_eat_sheep.html

> And what actually happened was that a scare was whipped up, it looked as if
> the entire UK sheep flock would be slaughtered, until someone admitted that
> they had actually used cattle brain by mistake to inject into the mice
> rather than sheep brain, so all their experiments had proved was that cattle
> that died of BSE had BSE

NOT Prusiner,....

'The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra)
has admitted that testing on the wrong tissue had been carried out
for the past five years. '
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1605959.stm

-restore-

'A paper due out shortly in EMBO Journal by Raymond, Bossers,
Caughey, et al. supports some aspects of Prusiner's position. The
in vitro conversion test shows scrapie, BSE, and CWD have low
but non-zero risks of converting human prion to the abnormal form;
this has been a reliable proxy in the past. While it isn't clear yet
whether the same strain of scrapie mentioned by Prusiner was
among those studied, taken together it would seem that some strains
of scrapie might be of special concern in regards to direct sheep
scrapie to human transmission. The new data is much stronger than,
and trumps, older epidemiological questionaires about scrapie and
CJD that the industry has relied on.
.......
http://www.mad-cow.org/00/jul00_dont_eat_sheep.html .

From:	Jim Webster
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:14:04 -0000

"pearl" wrote in message news:ct0594

The new data is much stronger than,
> and trumps, older epidemiological questionaires about scrapie and
> CJD that the industry has relied on.
> ......

seeing as how the old reports were totally wrong, it doesn't have to be good
to be better

Jim Webster

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:45:28 -0000

"pearl" wrote in message news:ct0594$pie$1@kermit.esat.net...
...
> > > "usual suspect" wrote in message
> > news:J8fId.40527$_56.31800@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > > > Scrapie, the TSE which affects sheep and goats, is NOT transmissible to
> > > > humans.
> > >
> > > 'New research by Professor Stanley Prusiner strongly suggests
> > > that the infective prion agent that causes BSE is found in sheep
> > > but at levels which have, until now, been undetectable. Prusiner,
> > > professor of neurology at the University of California in San
> > > Francisco, won the the Nobel prize for discovering prions. His
> > > laboratories are among the world leaders in such research.
<..>
> 'A paper due out shortly in EMBO Journal by Raymond, Bossers,
> Caughey, et al. supports some aspects of Prusiner's position. The
> in vitro conversion test shows scrapie, BSE, and CWD have low
> but non-zero risks of converting human prion to the abnormal form;
> this has been a reliable proxy in the past. While it isn't clear yet
> whether the same strain of scrapie mentioned by Prusiner was
> among those studied, taken together it would seem that some strains
> of scrapie might be of special concern in regards to direct sheep
> scrapie to human transmission. The new data is much stronger than,
> and trumps, older epidemiological questionaires about scrapie and
> CJD that the industry has relied on.
> ......
> http://www.mad-cow.org/00/jul00_dont_eat_sheep.html .

'In 2001, a team of French researchers found, to their complete surprise,
a strain of scrapie--"mad sheep" disease--that caused the same brain
damage in mice as sporadic CJD.[19] "This means we cannot rule out
that at least some sporadic CJD may be caused by some strains of scrapie,"
says team member Jean-Philippe Deslys of the French Atomic Energy
Commission's medical research laboratory.[20]

Population studies had failed to show a link between CJD and lamb chops,
but this French research provided an explanation why. There seem to be
six types of sporadic CJD and there are more than 20 strains of scrapie.
If only some sheep strains affect only some people, studies of entire
populations may not clearly show the relationship. Monkeys fed infected
sheep brains certainly come down with the disease.[21] Hundreds of
"mad sheep" were found in the U.S. in 2003.[22] Scrapie remains such
a problem in the United States that the USDA has issued a scrapie
"declaration of emergency."[23] Maybe some cases of sporadic CJD in
the U.S. are caused by sheep meat as well.[24]
......'
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0107-07.htm

From:	Jim Webster
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:14:50 -0000

"pearl" wrote in message
news:ct06v4$pu1$1@kermit.esat.net...

>
> 'In 2001, a team of French researchers found, to their complete surprise,
> a strain of scrapie--"mad sheep" disease--

well I suppose 2001 is more modern than 2000 but hardly cutting edge

Already discredited

Jim Webster

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:00:01 GMT

~~peril~~ wrote:
>>Scrapie, the TSE which affects sheep and goats, is NOT transmissible to
>>humans.
>
> 'New research by Professor Stanley Prusiner strongly suggests

That's 4.5 year-old statement, Calamity Lesley, NOT research. To date,
his statement has not been codified for publication in any journal. Read
the webmaster's opinion before you jump the gun next time:
This is a first, for Prusiner to show strong public leadership
on a prion public health issue. Even though the data has not yet
been written up for publication, Prusiner has to be taken
seriously with 358 earlier prion papers. His team must be very
excited by the implications of their research to make such a
statement potentially affecting 40 million sheep, though nowhere
do they suggest the data is strong enough yet to mandate a cull.

The article itself starts out by saying that even if Prusiner's
speculation is correct, any such risk from eating lamb or goat meat is
*SMALL*. To date, there is NO evidence of scrapie being transmitted to a
human through food, milk, or other physical contact. There is also NO
evidence of sheep or goats carrying the actual BSE prion.

From:	pearl
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 12:32:03 -0000

"usual suspect" wrote in message news:5MuId.42654$_56.27470@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> ~~peril~~ wrote:
> >>Scrapie, the TSE which affects sheep and goats, is NOT transmissible to
> >>humans.
> >
> > 'New research by Professor Stanley Prusiner strongly suggests
>
> That's 4.5 year-old statement,

'The research uses "bovinised" mice in which the gene that makes
prion proteins is replaced by the same gene from a cow. Such mice
react to BSE prions just like a cow - but take less than 10 months
to develop the disease, compared with more than three years for
cows - so speeding up research. When such mice were innoculated
with BSE prions the resulting disease was identical to that caused by
variant CJD prions from humans - powerful evidence that the prions
are the same.

By contrast, material from animals and humans with different prion
diseases took longer and damaged the brain differently. The mice
were then injected with material from sheep with scrapie - and again
the incubation and symptoms were very close to those of BSE. This
was powerful evidence that sheep can produce BSE prions. If they
had died of scrapie the disease should have looked different.
....'
http://www.mad-cow.org/00/jul00_dont_eat_sheep.html

From:	banmilk at hotmail.com
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	21 Jan 2005 17:47:12 -0800

Not So.

You are no expert on TSEs.

From:	usual suspect
Subject:	Re: Prions in Breast Milk
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:23:56 GMT

banmilk@hotmail.com wrote:
> Not So.

It is so.

> You are no expert on TSEs.

Are YOU? Hahaha.