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 | | From: | Archimedes Plutonium | | Subject: | defining overarm throwing from underarm Re: Rotator-Cuff Re: The "talus" | | Date: | Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:28:45 -0600 |
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 | Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:24:42 GMT EdJohnson98012@earthlink.net wrote:
> Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
>
(most snipped)
>
>
> I think you have to rethink how we throw. Throwing overhand is a misnomer. Something
> babies do. It is really much more of a sidearm motion. It merely looks like its overhand
> because the torso is nearly horizontal with the ground upon release. What is really
> happening is a balancing act that is one of the most graceful in the animal kingdom.
> Obviously you have to start with bipedalism. That is probably the beginning and end of
> what we call overhand throwing. Go through the motion yourself and you will notice on
> release that your opposite shoulder is pointing down relative to your throwing shoulder.
> As they say in baseball it's all in the legs
> >
> > Morphology is Behaviour. So if Oreopithecus had these unique
> > stonethrowing bones then Oreopithecus was a Stonethrower and also was
> > biped. Did Orrorin have these unique stonethrowing bones? If so, then
> > Orrorin was probably a descendent of Oreopithecus and that humanity
> > cradle was not Africa but southern Europe.
> >
>
> Yes if he had the ability to balance and bend his body in such a fashion then he was an
> "overhand" stone thrower. It doesn't take much a leap of imagination to think that a
> bipedal descendent of agile acrobatic primates could perform this feat.
>
> > So, Ed, can you be lifted up to stage or step two wherein you discuss
> > or find out what unique body morphology bones does a Stonethrower
> > possess? And step three or stage three is to then inspect all the
> > ancient hominid fossils ever found to see who or who was not a
> > Stonethrower. The owners of Oreopithecus and Orrorin bones have not
> > given permission to research their bones for Stonethrowing signatures.
> > And the science of Anthropology will go nowhere until Stonethrowing
> > questions are answered.
> >
> Yes it is interesting that these fossils have not been scanned so that anyone with can
> interest can make stereo lithography facsimiles for study. Does seem a waste doesn't it?
>
> In any case I think you would need to look at the leg structure first and foremost in
> order to understand throwing mechanics. Secondly look at the torso and see if can be
> manipulated into a posture that allows for "overhand throwing". Lastly amd very much
> lastly its the structure of the shoulder. Afterall a man in a wheel chair is not a good
> candidate to be a nominal thrower.
>
> > It is a shame that the owners of anthropological bones can stop the
> > investigation of those bones for Stonethrowing behaviour.
> >
> > Archimedes Plutonium
> > whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
> > of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
>
> We have always marveled at how such a small, slow, weak and seemingly defenseless ground
> creature such as the ancestor of man could survive in a terrestrial environment. The
> answer is stone throwing.
Ed's post was in March of 2004 and I am just getting around to answering it. I suppose my
attention was diverted. But here in January of 2005 I have alot more on the Stonethrowing
theory that I did not have in March of 2004.
For one, I have to include Dropping rocks and stones from trees of the pre-Oreopithecus.
Dropping preceded bipedalism. Throwing came first and it evolved into quadrapeds hauling
rocks and stones up into trees to ambush animals on the ground. And even the collection of
stones and rocks on the ground spurred the evolution or hastened the evolution of getting
the backbone to upright walking. So that the collecting of rocks on the ground to store into
trees aided in the forming of a backbone for bipedalism but also aided in the performance of
throwing itself, as the expression goes "putting your backbone into the throw".
But I do need to come up with a scientific definition of the distinction between overarm and
underarm throwing. It would be easy for me to just say that in baseball, men throw overarm
and in women's softball they throw underarm and leave it at that. But that is unscientific.
Somehow the fastest throws involve mens baseball which is overarm throwing. So I need to
know why men overarm pitch delivers the fastest speeds? Are there extra muscles called into
action when a man's baseball pitcher throws overarm? And are there fewer muscles called into
action when a man pitches underarm for the speed of the ball is less? So I need to know what
those muscles are and then make the definition based on the total muscles used.
When pitching underarm the motion reminds me of a pendulum sort of pitch. Where the lower
arm seems almost straight with the upper arm.
A stiff arm pendulum sort of motion in underarm. In overarm it seems as though the lower arm
adds additional thrust to the ball, lacking in underarm where it is stiff.
Also I need to include the concept of a heavy short distance lob of a rock using both arms.
That is a overarm pitch. But humans cannot make a underarm pitch of a heavy rock simply
because both arms cannot be in play. So a heavy rock requires two arms lifting the rock over
the head and then pommelling the target. So this action is another form of overarm throwing.
I need to run a scientific analysis of the proportionate length of lower arm to upper arm of
all monkeys and apes and humans and I expect that data to tell me which monkeys and apes can
throw at all and if they can throw whether they can only throw underarm or overarm or both.
Because the lower arm is disproportionate to upper arm in monkeys and apes signifies that if
they can throw at all it is only underarm.
So defining underarm as a pendulum type motion where the hand never exceeds the height level
of the shoulder. And overarm is where it is shoulder height and above. So sidearm is mostly
underarm unless it reaches the level of the should itself.
I suspect spider monkeys and chimpanzees throw only underarm because there lower arm length
to upper arm length causes them pain to through overarm. And that their bone structure is
such that they can only throw underarm without pain.
Ed seems to think that bipedalism came before Stonethrowing. I counter that by saying that
the Stonethrowing theory created bipedalism. So some 10 million years ago was a quadraped
ape call it preOreopithecus who started to throw in earnest and would come down out of the
trees collect rocks and stones, carry them up into the trees and ambush animals on the
ground. This behaviour conferred advantage and with time the rock collecting on the ground
evolved into getting more and more bipedal instead of quadraped to get the rocks faster and
to free the hands to throw in case some predator was on the ground stalking the
preOreopithecus. By the time of Oreopithecus, he was a full fledged rock thrower and the
throwing had created full bipedalism.
Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
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