http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005

Wed 19 Jan 2005

Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches

HAMISH MACDONELL
SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR

JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the number of
loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.

The First Minister said he believed there were too many parades,
particularly in west and central Scotland, and he wanted to see them cut
back.

But his remarks, coming days before publication of an independent report on
the issue, met with an angry response from the Orange Order.

A spokesman for the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland accused Mr McConnell of
pre-empting the findings of the Orr report into marches, which is due next
week, and for failing even to talk to the Orange Lodge about his concerns.

According to the Scottish Executive, there are about 850 Orange parades in
Scotland every year and about 17 republican marches.

Mr McConnell wants to curb both, but because of the sheer imbalance in the
numbers it is inevitable that the Orange Order will be harder hit.

Robert McLean, executive officer with the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland,
said: "We have not made any comment on the report ahead of its publication
but, since Mr McConnell has come out this morning I will say that I think it
is rude for politicians to make comments before the report is published.

"He is saying there are too many parades. If he thinks that, why has he not
spoken to us about it?"

Mr McConnell's comments, at his monthly press conference in Edinburgh,
represent a clear attempt to lead the agenda on what has become one of his
priorities - sectarianism.

The First Minister commissioned Sir John Orr, the former head of Strathclyde
Police, to look into this issue and his report has already been handed to
the Executive.

Mr McConnell told reporters: "I think there are too many parades. I think
far too many communities are affected too regularly by the kind of parades
that you are referring to."

And he added: "I think there are many communities across Scotland that would
like to see less parades and I think if they had more influence over the
decisions that were made there would be less parades.

"I think if local authorities and the organisations involved had a framework
within which they could reach better agreements then there would be less
parades too.

"And I think that there are certainly parts of Scotland, particularly in the
west of Scotland, particularly some parts of Lanarkshire, some areas in
Glasgow and some parts of Ayrshire, where there are just simply far too many
parades."

The First Minister believes that sectarianism and religious bigotry are
holding Scotland back. He thinks the sheer number and scale of the
republican and loyalist marches which take place every year are damaging and
regressive, and he wants to cut them back.

Sir John was appointed last June as an independent expert to review the
procedure for authorising traditional parades on Scotland's streets.

His report is expected to recommend sweeping new powers for councils to
limit marches through their areas.

The Orr committee will not recommend an outright ban on marches, but is
likely to say that councils and communities must be given more control over
them.

The only grounds for objection that local authorities or communities have at
present is if the police conclude there is a threat to public order by
allowing a march to go ahead or if less than seven days' notice has been
given.

Executive sources who have seen a draft version of the Orr report say that
the committee wants councils and communities to be given powers over when a
march takes place and what route it follows.

The seven-day notice rule is also likely to be extended to about 28 days.

From:	didgerman
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:47:09 GMT

"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...
> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
>
> Wed 19 Jan 2005
>
> Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
>
> HAMISH MACDONELL
> SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR
>
> JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the number
> of loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.
>
> The First Minister said he believed there were too many parades,
> particularly in west and central Scotland, and he wanted to see them cut
> back.
>
> But his remarks, coming days before publication of an independent report
> on the issue, met with an angry response from the Orange Order.
>
> A spokesman for the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland accused Mr McConnell of
> pre-empting the findings of the Orr report into marches, which is due next
> week, and for failing even to talk to the Orange Lodge about his concerns.
>
> According to the Scottish Executive, there are about 850 Orange parades in
> Scotland every year and about 17 republican marches.
>
> Mr McConnell wants to curb both, but because of the sheer imbalance in the
> numbers it is inevitable that the Orange Order will be harder hit.
>
> Robert McLean, executive officer with the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland,
> said: "We have not made any comment on the report ahead of its publication
> but, since Mr McConnell has come out this morning I will say that I think
> it is rude for politicians to make comments before the report is
> published.
>
> "He is saying there are too many parades. If he thinks that, why has he
> not spoken to us about it?"
>
> Mr McConnell's comments, at his monthly press conference in Edinburgh,
> represent a clear attempt to lead the agenda on what has become one of his
> priorities - sectarianism.
>
> The First Minister commissioned Sir John Orr, the former head of
> Strathclyde Police, to look into this issue and his report has already
> been handed to the Executive.
>
> Mr McConnell told reporters: "I think there are too many parades. I think
> far too many communities are affected too regularly by the kind of parades
> that you are referring to."
>
> And he added: "I think there are many communities across Scotland that
> would like to see less parades and I think if they had more influence over
> the decisions that were made there would be less parades.
>
> "I think if local authorities and the organisations involved had a
> framework within which they could reach better agreements then there would
> be less parades too.
>
> "And I think that there are certainly parts of Scotland, particularly in
> the west of Scotland, particularly some parts of Lanarkshire, some areas
> in Glasgow and some parts of Ayrshire, where there are just simply far too
> many parades."
>
> The First Minister believes that sectarianism and religious bigotry are
> holding Scotland back. He thinks the sheer number and scale of the
> republican and loyalist marches which take place every year are damaging
> and regressive, and he wants to cut them back.
>
> Sir John was appointed last June as an independent expert to review the
> procedure for authorising traditional parades on Scotland's streets.
>
> His report is expected to recommend sweeping new powers for councils to
> limit marches through their areas.
>
> The Orr committee will not recommend an outright ban on marches, but is
> likely to say that councils and communities must be given more control
> over them.
>
> The only grounds for objection that local authorities or communities have
> at present is if the police conclude there is a threat to public order by
> allowing a march to go ahead or if less than seven days' notice has been
> given.
>
> Executive sources who have seen a draft version of the Orr report say that
> the committee wants councils and communities to be given powers over when
> a march takes place and what route it follows.
>
> The seven-day notice rule is also likely to be extended to about 28 days.
>

Screw them, bunch of freaks the lot of 'em. WTF is all that, Oliver Hardy
hat, Miss World sash and Wacko Jacko gloves?
Best kept off the streets.

From:	Joe
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:45:24 -0000

"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...
> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
>
> Wed 19 Jan 2005
>
> Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
>
> HAMISH MACDONELL
> SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR
>
> JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the number
of
> loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.
>
> The First Minister said he believed there were too many parades,
> particularly in west and central Scotland, and he wanted to see them cut
> back.
>
> But his remarks, coming days before publication of an independent report
on
> the issue, met with an angry response from the Orange Order.
>
> A spokesman for the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland accused Mr McConnell of
> pre-empting the findings of the Orr report into marches, which is due next
> week, and for failing even to talk to the Orange Lodge about his concerns.
>
> According to the Scottish Executive, there are about 850 Orange parades in
> Scotland every year and about 17 republican marches.
>
> Mr McConnell wants to curb both, but because of the sheer imbalance in the
> numbers it is inevitable that the Orange Order will be harder hit.
>
> Robert McLean, executive officer with the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland,
> said: "We have not made any comment on the report ahead of its publication
> but, since Mr McConnell has come out this morning I will say that I think
it
> is rude for politicians to make comments before the report is published.
>
> "He is saying there are too many parades. If he thinks that, why has he
not
> spoken to us about it?"
>
> Mr McConnell's comments, at his monthly press conference in Edinburgh,
> represent a clear attempt to lead the agenda on what has become one of his
> priorities - sectarianism.
>
> The First Minister commissioned Sir John Orr, the former head of
Strathclyde
> Police, to look into this issue and his report has already been handed to
> the Executive.
>
> Mr McConnell told reporters: "I think there are too many parades. I think
> far too many communities are affected too regularly by the kind of parades
> that you are referring to."
>
> And he added: "I think there are many communities across Scotland that
would
> like to see less parades and I think if they had more influence over the
> decisions that were made there would be less parades.
>
> "I think if local authorities and the organisations involved had a
framework
> within which they could reach better agreements then there would be less
> parades too.
>
> "And I think that there are certainly parts of Scotland, particularly in
the
> west of Scotland, particularly some parts of Lanarkshire, some areas in
> Glasgow and some parts of Ayrshire, where there are just simply far too
many
> parades."
>
> The First Minister believes that sectarianism and religious bigotry are
> holding Scotland back. He thinks the sheer number and scale of the
> republican and loyalist marches which take place every year are damaging
and
> regressive, and he wants to cut them back.
>
> Sir John was appointed last June as an independent expert to review the
> procedure for authorising traditional parades on Scotland's streets.
>
> His report is expected to recommend sweeping new powers for councils to
> limit marches through their areas.
>
> The Orr committee will not recommend an outright ban on marches, but is
> likely to say that councils and communities must be given more control
over
> them.
>
> The only grounds for objection that local authorities or communities have
at
> present is if the police conclude there is a threat to public order by
> allowing a march to go ahead or if less than seven days' notice has been
> given.
>
> Executive sources who have seen a draft version of the Orr report say that
> the committee wants councils and communities to be given powers over when
a
> march takes place and what route it follows.
>
> The seven-day notice rule is also likely to be extended to about 28 days.
>
>
The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for police
protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the Republicans for police
protection for their respective marches. I don't see why I should pay for
them,
Joe

From:	Robert Peffers
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:16:15 -0000

"Joe" wrote in message
news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>
> "Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
> news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...
>> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
>>
>> Wed 19 Jan 2005
>>
>> Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
>>
>> HAMISH MACDONELL
>> SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR
>>
>> JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the number
> of
>> loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.
>>
>> The First Minister said he believed there were too many parades,
>> particularly in west and central Scotland, and he wanted to see them cut
>> back.
>>
>> But his remarks, coming days before publication of an independent report
> on
>> the issue, met with an angry response from the Orange Order.
>>
>> A spokesman for the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland accused Mr McConnell
>> of
>> pre-empting the findings of the Orr report into marches, which is due
>> next
>> week, and for failing even to talk to the Orange Lodge about his
>> concerns.
>>
>> According to the Scottish Executive, there are about 850 Orange parades
>> in
>> Scotland every year and about 17 republican marches.
>>
>> Mr McConnell wants to curb both, but because of the sheer imbalance in
>> the
>> numbers it is inevitable that the Orange Order will be harder hit.
>>
>> Robert McLean, executive officer with the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland,
>> said: "We have not made any comment on the report ahead of its
>> publication
>> but, since Mr McConnell has come out this morning I will say that I think
> it
>> is rude for politicians to make comments before the report is published.
>>
>> "He is saying there are too many parades. If he thinks that, why has he
> not
>> spoken to us about it?"
>>
>> Mr McConnell's comments, at his monthly press conference in Edinburgh,
>> represent a clear attempt to lead the agenda on what has become one of
>> his
>> priorities - sectarianism.
>>
>> The First Minister commissioned Sir John Orr, the former head of
> Strathclyde
>> Police, to look into this issue and his report has already been handed to
>> the Executive.
>>
>> Mr McConnell told reporters: "I think there are too many parades. I think
>> far too many communities are affected too regularly by the kind of
>> parades
>> that you are referring to."
>>
>> And he added: "I think there are many communities across Scotland that
> would
>> like to see less parades and I think if they had more influence over the
>> decisions that were made there would be less parades.
>>
>> "I think if local authorities and the organisations involved had a
> framework
>> within which they could reach better agreements then there would be less
>> parades too.
>>
>> "And I think that there are certainly parts of Scotland, particularly in
> the
>> west of Scotland, particularly some parts of Lanarkshire, some areas in
>> Glasgow and some parts of Ayrshire, where there are just simply far too
> many
>> parades."
>>
>> The First Minister believes that sectarianism and religious bigotry are
>> holding Scotland back. He thinks the sheer number and scale of the
>> republican and loyalist marches which take place every year are damaging
> and
>> regressive, and he wants to cut them back.
>>
>> Sir John was appointed last June as an independent expert to review the
>> procedure for authorising traditional parades on Scotland's streets.
>>
>> His report is expected to recommend sweeping new powers for councils to
>> limit marches through their areas.
>>
>> The Orr committee will not recommend an outright ban on marches, but is
>> likely to say that councils and communities must be given more control
> over
>> them.
>>
>> The only grounds for objection that local authorities or communities have
> at
>> present is if the police conclude there is a threat to public order by
>> allowing a march to go ahead or if less than seven days' notice has been
>> given.
>>
>> Executive sources who have seen a draft version of the Orr report say
>> that
>> the committee wants councils and communities to be given powers over when
> a
>> march takes place and what route it follows.
>>
>> The seven-day notice rule is also likely to be extended to about 28 days.
>>
>>
> The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for police
> protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the Republicans for police
> protection for their respective marches. I don't see why I should pay for
> them,
> Joe
>
>
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
Perhaps it is because the police are protecting the public from the
Orangemen rather than the Orangemen from the public.
--

Aefauldlie, (Scots word for Honestly),
Robert, (Auld Bob), Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).
Web Site, "The Eck's Files":- http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk

From:	Duke of Url
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:54:40 -0600

Robert Peffers wrote:
> "Joe" wrote in message
> news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>> "Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>> news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...

>>> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
>>> JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the
>>> number of loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.

>> The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for
>> police protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the
>> Republicans for police protection for their respective marches. I
>> don't see why I should pay for them,

> Perhaps it is because the police are protecting the public from the
> Orangemen rather than the Orangemen from the public.

The truly frightening thing about this is that UK citizens have no Right of
Assembly unless the rulers like them.

From:	Michilín
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:10:51 GMT

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:54:40 -0600, "Duke of Url"
wrote:

>Robert Peffers wrote:
>> "Joe" wrote in message
>> news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>>> "Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>>> news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...
>
>>>> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
>>>> JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the
>>>> number of loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.
>
>>> The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for
>>> police protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the
>>> Republicans for police protection for their respective marches. I
>>> don't see why I should pay for them,
>
>> Perhaps it is because the police are protecting the public from the
>> Orangemen rather than the Orangemen from the public.
>
>The truly frightening thing about this is that UK citizens have no Right of
>Assembly unless the rulers like them.
>
>
I think you'd better do more research...

Riotous assemblies can be ordered to disperse, but only by a
magistrate who must first read the Riot Act to the rioters.

Britain has a great many more freedoms than the US and with recent US
amendments and changes to the law, is a great deal more democratic.

Michilín

From:	Robert Peffers
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:52:20 -0000

"Michilín" wrote in message news:41f4040d.15901785@news...
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 10:54:40 -0600, "Duke of Url"
> wrote:
>
>>Robert Peffers wrote:
>>> "Joe" wrote in message
>>> news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>>>> "Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>>>> news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>>> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
>>>>> JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the
>>>>> number of loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.
>>
>>>> The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for
>>>> police protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the
>>>> Republicans for police protection for their respective marches. I
>>>> don't see why I should pay for them,
>>
>>> Perhaps it is because the police are protecting the public from the
>>> Orangemen rather than the Orangemen from the public.
>>
>>The truly frightening thing about this is that UK citizens have no Right
>>of
>>Assembly unless the rulers like them.
>>
>>
> I think you'd better do more research...
>
> Riotous assemblies can be ordered to disperse, but only by a
> magistrate who must first read the Riot Act to the rioters.
>
> Britain has a great many more freedoms than the US and with recent US
> amendments and changes to the law, is a great deal more democratic.
>
> Michilín
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
Err! No! The riot act is no more. Here is a little quote.
To invoke the law, the magistrates had to read the relevant section of the
Act aloud to the mob, something that often required courage:
Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons being
assembled immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to
their habitations or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in
the act made in the first year of King George for preventing tumultuous and
riotous assemblies. God save the King.
The pains or penalties were penal servitude for life or not less than three
years, or imprisonment with or without hard labour for up to two years. The
Act remained in force for a surprisingly long time, only finally being
repealed in 1973, though it had been effectively defunct for decades.

Did not stop Churchill from having troops fire upon the Miners, though. It
also did not stop the police, "Heavy Mob", from being used against the
Rosyth Dockyard Workers in what was essentially a peaceful and well
controlled Union, "Official Strike".

They never used the law against the Pro-hunting lobby or the Iraqi war
protesters but there were some shots of the police dragging some disabled
people around when they had a protest or two a few years ago.
--

Aefauldlie, (Scots word for Honestly),
Robert, (Auld Bob), Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).
Web Site, "The Eck's Files":- http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk

From:	Jackie Mulheron
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:04:15 -0000

"Duke of Url" wrote in message
news:10v7lmhqruoft79@corp.supernews.com...
> Robert Peffers wrote:
>> "Joe" wrote in message
>> news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>>> "Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>>> news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...
>
>>>> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
>>>> JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the
>>>> number of loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.
>
>>> The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for
>>> police protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the
>>> Republicans for police protection for their respective marches. I
>>> don't see why I should pay for them,
>
>> Perhaps it is because the police are protecting the public from the
>> Orangemen rather than the Orangemen from the public.
>
> The truly frightening thing about this is that UK citizens have no Right
> of Assembly unless the rulers like them.

I know, I know. Next we'll be getting "free speech zones" or "protest zones".

http://www.amconmag.com/12_15_03/feature.html

From:	Stuart
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Fri, 21 Jan 2005 20:15:13 +0000

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 19:45:24 -0000, "Joe"
wrote:

>>
>>
>The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for police
>protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the Republicans for police
>protection for their respective marches. I don't see why I should pay for
>them,
>Joe
>
Trouble is they would lead for calls to charge other organisations to
be charged when they march ( unless,ofcourse charges were only levied
for marches over a certain number per year ).
Stuart

From:	Jackie Mulheron
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:22:34 -0000

"Joe" wrote in message
news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>
> "Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
> news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...
>> http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
>>
>> Wed 19 Jan 2005
>>
>> Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
>>
>> HAMISH MACDONELL
>> SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR
>>
>> JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the number
> of
>> loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.
>>
>> The First Minister said he believed there were too many parades,
>> particularly in west and central Scotland, and he wanted to see them cut
>> back.
>>
>> But his remarks, coming days before publication of an independent report
> on
>> the issue, met with an angry response from the Orange Order.
>>
>> A spokesman for the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland accused Mr McConnell
>> of
>> pre-empting the findings of the Orr report into marches, which is due
>> next
>> week, and for failing even to talk to the Orange Lodge about his
>> concerns.
>>
>> According to the Scottish Executive, there are about 850 Orange parades
>> in
>> Scotland every year and about 17 republican marches.
>>
>> Mr McConnell wants to curb both, but because of the sheer imbalance in
>> the
>> numbers it is inevitable that the Orange Order will be harder hit.
>>
>> Robert McLean, executive officer with the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland,
>> said: "We have not made any comment on the report ahead of its
>> publication
>> but, since Mr McConnell has come out this morning I will say that I think
> it
>> is rude for politicians to make comments before the report is published.
>>
>> "He is saying there are too many parades. If he thinks that, why has he
> not
>> spoken to us about it?"
>>
>> Mr McConnell's comments, at his monthly press conference in Edinburgh,
>> represent a clear attempt to lead the agenda on what has become one of
>> his
>> priorities - sectarianism.
>>
>> The First Minister commissioned Sir John Orr, the former head of
> Strathclyde
>> Police, to look into this issue and his report has already been handed to
>> the Executive.
>>
>> Mr McConnell told reporters: "I think there are too many parades. I think
>> far too many communities are affected too regularly by the kind of
>> parades
>> that you are referring to."
>>
>> And he added: "I think there are many communities across Scotland that
> would
>> like to see less parades and I think if they had more influence over the
>> decisions that were made there would be less parades.
>>
>> "I think if local authorities and the organisations involved had a
> framework
>> within which they could reach better agreements then there would be less
>> parades too.
>>
>> "And I think that there are certainly parts of Scotland, particularly in
> the
>> west of Scotland, particularly some parts of Lanarkshire, some areas in
>> Glasgow and some parts of Ayrshire, where there are just simply far too
> many
>> parades."
>>
>> The First Minister believes that sectarianism and religious bigotry are
>> holding Scotland back. He thinks the sheer number and scale of the
>> republican and loyalist marches which take place every year are damaging
> and
>> regressive, and he wants to cut them back.
>>
>> Sir John was appointed last June as an independent expert to review the
>> procedure for authorising traditional parades on Scotland's streets.
>>
>> His report is expected to recommend sweeping new powers for councils to
>> limit marches through their areas.
>>
>> The Orr committee will not recommend an outright ban on marches, but is
>> likely to say that councils and communities must be given more control
> over
>> them.
>>
>> The only grounds for objection that local authorities or communities have
> at
>> present is if the police conclude there is a threat to public order by
>> allowing a march to go ahead or if less than seven days' notice has been
>> given.
>>
>> Executive sources who have seen a draft version of the Orr report say
>> that
>> the committee wants councils and communities to be given powers over when
> a
>> march takes place and what route it follows.
>>
>> The seven-day notice rule is also likely to be extended to about 28 days.
>>
>>
> The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for police
> protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the Republicans for police
> protection for their respective marches. I don't see why I should pay for
> them,

I think we should increase VAT on crimpolene and white socks.

That might help.

From:	Ian Morrison
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:53:47 GMT

Jackie Mulheron wrote:
> "Joe" wrote in message
> news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>
>>"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>>news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...
>>
>>>http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
>>>
>>>Wed 19 Jan 2005
>>>
>>>Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
>>>
>>>HAMISH MACDONELL
>>>SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR
>>>
>>>JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the number
>>
>>of
>>
>>>loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.
>>>
>>>The First Minister said he believed there were too many parades,
>>>particularly in west and central Scotland, and he wanted to see them cut
>>>back.
>>>
>>>But his remarks, coming days before publication of an independent report
>>
>>on
>>
>>>the issue, met with an angry response from the Orange Order.
>>>
>>>A spokesman for the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland accused Mr McConnell
>>>of
>>>pre-empting the findings of the Orr report into marches, which is due
>>>next
>>>week, and for failing even to talk to the Orange Lodge about his
>>>concerns.
>>>
>>>According to the Scottish Executive, there are about 850 Orange parades
>>>in
>>>Scotland every year and about 17 republican marches.
>>>
>>>Mr McConnell wants to curb both, but because of the sheer imbalance in
>>>the
>>>numbers it is inevitable that the Orange Order will be harder hit.
>>>
>>>Robert McLean, executive officer with the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland,
>>>said: "We have not made any comment on the report ahead of its
>>>publication
>>>but, since Mr McConnell has come out this morning I will say that I think
>>
>>it
>>
>>>is rude for politicians to make comments before the report is published.
>>>
>>>"He is saying there are too many parades. If he thinks that, why has he
>>
>>not
>>
>>>spoken to us about it?"
>>>
>>>Mr McConnell's comments, at his monthly press conference in Edinburgh,
>>>represent a clear attempt to lead the agenda on what has become one of
>>>his
>>>priorities - sectarianism.
>>>
>>>The First Minister commissioned Sir John Orr, the former head of
>>
>>Strathclyde
>>
>>>Police, to look into this issue and his report has already been handed to
>>>the Executive.
>>>
>>>Mr McConnell told reporters: "I think there are too many parades. I think
>>>far too many communities are affected too regularly by the kind of
>>>parades
>>>that you are referring to."
>>>
>>>And he added: "I think there are many communities across Scotland that
>>
>>would
>>
>>>like to see less parades and I think if they had more influence over the
>>>decisions that were made there would be less parades.
>>>
>>>"I think if local authorities and the organisations involved had a
>>
>>framework
>>
>>>within which they could reach better agreements then there would be less
>>>parades too.
>>>
>>>"And I think that there are certainly parts of Scotland, particularly in
>>
>>the
>>
>>>west of Scotland, particularly some parts of Lanarkshire, some areas in
>>>Glasgow and some parts of Ayrshire, where there are just simply far too
>>
>>many
>>
>>>parades."
>>>
>>>The First Minister believes that sectarianism and religious bigotry are
>>>holding Scotland back. He thinks the sheer number and scale of the
>>>republican and loyalist marches which take place every year are damaging
>>
>>and
>>
>>>regressive, and he wants to cut them back.
>>>
>>>Sir John was appointed last June as an independent expert to review the
>>>procedure for authorising traditional parades on Scotland's streets.
>>>
>>>His report is expected to recommend sweeping new powers for councils to
>>>limit marches through their areas.
>>>
>>>The Orr committee will not recommend an outright ban on marches, but is
>>>likely to say that councils and communities must be given more control
>>
>>over
>>
>>>them.
>>>
>>>The only grounds for objection that local authorities or communities have
>>
>>at
>>
>>>present is if the police conclude there is a threat to public order by
>>>allowing a march to go ahead or if less than seven days' notice has been
>>>given.
>>>
>>>Executive sources who have seen a draft version of the Orr report say
>>>that
>>>the committee wants councils and communities to be given powers over when
>>
>>a
>>
>>>march takes place and what route it follows.
>>>
>>>The seven-day notice rule is also likely to be extended to about 28 days.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for police
>>protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the Republicans for police
>>protection for their respective marches. I don't see why I should pay for
>>them,
>
>
> I think we should increase VAT on crimpolene and white socks.
>
> That might help.

No, I think the idea of making the marchers pay the full cost of their
antics is a good one. A year or two ago West Lothian Council tried to
charge the Orange Order the cost of cleaning up after their massive
march in West Calder. I don't know if they succeeded or not, because the
local Orangemen denied that the mess - some of which I observed with my
own eyes, was caused by their members. As a Council Tax payer in West
Lothian, I object to paying for mopping up (literally) after a load of
drunken bigots, from wherever, have visited the area.

The whole sectarian Marching thing is merely a (very) crude territorial
marking thing anyway, no matter who is doing it, and has no place in
modern society.

They can't even play their f***ing flutes and drums properly!

------
Ian O.

From:	allan connochie
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:28:37 -0000

From:	Jackie Mulheron
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:02:45 -0000

"allan connochie" wrote in message
news:41f1e377@news.greennet.net...
>
> "Ian Morrison" wrote in message
> news:vuhId.188931$48.11230@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Jackie Mulheron wrote:
>> > "Joe" wrote in message
>> > news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>> >
>> >>"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>> > I think we should increase VAT on crimpolene and white socks.
>> >
>> > That might help.
>>
>> No, I think the idea of making the marchers pay the full cost of their
>> antics is a good one. A year or two ago West Lothian Council tried to
>> charge the Orange Order the cost of cleaning up after their massive
>> march in West Calder. I don't know if they succeeded or not, because the
>> local Orangemen denied that the mess - some of which I observed with my
>> own eyes, was caused by their members. As a Council Tax payer in West
>> Lothian, I object to paying for mopping up (literally) after a load of
>> drunken bigots, from wherever, have visited the area.
>>
>> The whole sectarian Marching thing is merely a (very) crude territorial
>> marking thing anyway, no matter who is doing it, and has no place in
>> modern society.
>
>
> They are virtually unknown in the Borders. I say virtually because there
> has been the odd occassion. In Hawick about a quarter of a century ago
> one
> was organised though there were only two or three Orangemen in the area
> interested. People wanted it banned so a couple of bus loads of bigots
> came
> through from the west to give it some numbers. Then there were none until
> about two years ago when someone in their wisdom thought they'd have
> another
> one in Hawick. Again I think there was only a handful of marchers and
> virtually no protesters. People just aren't interested. The interesting
> thing being though that they always harp on about tradition yet they try
> to
> get marching going in areas where no such tradition exists. I'm one
> person
> who's managed to go 44 years in Scotland without ever seeing even a
> glimpse
> of an Orange or Republican march.

I actually met some guy from Ayrshire (!) who said he'd never seen one until
he visited Glasgow 10 years ago. He was in his 60's.

From:	Glenallan
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:27:00 -0000

"allan connochie" wrote in message
news:41f1e377@news.greennet.net...

>> The whole sectarian Marching thing is merely a (very) crude territorial
>> marking thing anyway, no matter who is doing it, and has no place in
>> modern society.
>
>
> They are virtually unknown in the Borders. I say virtually because there
> has been the odd occassion. In Hawick about a quarter of a century ago
> one
> was organised though there were only two or three Orangemen in the area
> interested. People wanted it banned so a couple of bus loads of bigots
> came
> through from the west to give it some numbers. Then there were none until
> about two years ago when someone in their wisdom thought they'd have
> another
> one in Hawick. Again I think there was only a handful of marchers and
> virtually no protesters. People just aren't interested. The interesting
> thing being though that they always harp on about tradition yet they try
> to
> get marching going in areas where no such tradition exists. I'm one
> person
> who's managed to go 44 years in Scotland without ever seeing even a
> glimpse
> of an Orange or Republican march.
>
>
> Allan

One Sunday last year I was working in my garden when I heard
the sound of flutes and the beating of a big bass drum.
It turned out that this drumbeat was coming in my direction.

They marched over the brow of a wee hill near me and came
right up to my hoose, and then did a whole rigmaroll of marching
on the spot to the tune the Rose of Alandale, which I will admit
was really very tuneful.

I rushed in and got my new digital camera and fired a few shots
'cos it was actually quite a novel sight. I actually caught the eye
of one of our local worthies and gave him a big wink and
a wee snigger. He replied likewise.

On command, the hale kit-and-caboodle aboot-turned
and marched back ower the hill again and went to church.

I thought it was quite funny and so did Harry McAvoy.
I hope he isn't banned. Harry is OK.

BTW...some of the bands are terrific.
Ye shouldny take things too seriously
--
For the Rose of Alandale just open up my
website at www.glenallan.velnet.com

Glenallan
---------

From:	allan connochie
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:25:32 -0000

"Glenallan" wrote in message
news:41f22a76$0$19157$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
>
> "allan connochie" wrote in message
> news:41f1e377@news.greennet.net...
> One Sunday last year I was working in my garden when I heard
> the sound of flutes and the beating of a big bass drum.
> It turned out that this drumbeat was coming in my direction.
>
> They marched over the brow of a wee hill near me and came
> right up to my hoose, and then did a whole rigmaroll of marching
> on the spot to the tune the Rose of Alandale, which I will admit
> was really very tuneful.

It's a great wee love song which gets strummed in this house on drunken
nights. Not sectarian in any way of course. Saying that even "The Sash" is
a great tune and we'll know when secarianism is gone for good when songs
like that can be sung without offending anyone.

>
> I rushed in and got my new digital camera and fired a few shots
> 'cos it was actually quite a novel sight. I actually caught the eye
> of one of our local worthies and gave him a big wink and
> a wee snigger. He replied likewise.
>
> On command, the hale kit-and-caboodle aboot-turned
> and marched back ower the hill again and went to church.
>
> I thought it was quite funny and so did Harry McAvoy.
> I hope he isn't banned. Harry is OK.
>
> BTW...some of the bands are terrific.
> Ye shouldny take things too seriously

I'm not too serious about the subject as it doesn't actually interfere with
my life at all. However it was interesting that they claim walks must stay
because of tradition whilst attempting to export them to areas with no such
tradition.

Allan

From:	Michilín
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:36:44 GMT

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 00:25:32 -0000, "allan connochie"
wrote:

>
>"Glenallan" wrote in message
>news:41f22a76$0$19157$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
>>
>> "allan connochie" wrote in message
>> news:41f1e377@news.greennet.net...
>> One Sunday last year I was working in my garden when I heard
>> the sound of flutes and the beating of a big bass drum.
>> It turned out that this drumbeat was coming in my direction.
>>
>> They marched over the brow of a wee hill near me and came
>> right up to my hoose, and then did a whole rigmaroll of marching
>> on the spot to the tune the Rose of Alandale, which I will admit
>> was really very tuneful.
>
>It's a great wee love song which gets strummed in this house on drunken
>nights. Not sectarian in any way of course. Saying that even "The Sash" is
>a great tune and we'll know when secarianism is gone for good when songs
>like that can be sung without offending anyone.

I love both tunes. I also love Deutschland Ueber Alles, SS Marchiert,
Das Horst Wessel Lied, Gimn Sovetskogo Soyuza (the Soviet National
Hymn), God Save the Queen, (aka My Country 'Tis Of Thee) sung in four
part harmony, the Star-Spangled Banner and the Battle Hymn of the
Republic.

This is an inherited characteristic of people with Highland blood, who
as mercenaries for centuries, were trained to switch sides at the
clink of a silver dollar and to respond rapturously to the preliminary
notes of the new employer's anthem, especially if accompanied by more
silver dollar clinking...
..
>>
>> I rushed in and got my new digital camera and fired a few shots
>> 'cos it was actually quite a novel sight. I actually caught the eye
>> of one of our local worthies and gave him a big wink and
>> a wee snigger. He replied likewise.
>>
>> On command, the hale kit-and-caboodle aboot-turned
>> and marched back ower the hill again and went to church.
>>
>> I thought it was quite funny and so did Harry McAvoy.
>> I hope he isn't banned. Harry is OK.
>>
>> BTW...some of the bands are terrific.
>> Ye shouldny take things too seriously
>
>I'm not too serious about the subject as it doesn't actually interfere with
>my life at all. However it was interesting that they claim walks must stay
>because of tradition whilst attempting to export them to areas with no such
>tradition.
>
>Allan
>
>
>

Michilín

From:	Glenallan
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 10:58:27 -0000

http://www.highlandencounters.com/Nederlands/scotmidi/Scotmenu.htm

Away an' March.....

From:	•Wee Jimmy•
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 03:54:44 GMT

"allan connochie" wrote in message
news:41f1e377@news.greennet.net...
>
> "Ian Morrison" wrote in message
> news:vuhId.188931$48.11230@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > Jackie Mulheron wrote:
> > > "Joe" wrote in message
> > > news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
> > >
> > >>"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
> > > I think we should increase VAT on crimpolene and white socks.
> > >
> > > That might help.
> >
> > No, I think the idea of making the marchers pay the full cost of their
> > antics is a good one. A year or two ago West Lothian Council tried to
> > charge the Orange Order the cost of cleaning up after their massive
> > march in West Calder. I don't know if they succeeded or not, because the
> > local Orangemen denied that the mess - some of which I observed with my
> > own eyes, was caused by their members. As a Council Tax payer in West
> > Lothian, I object to paying for mopping up (literally) after a load of
> > drunken bigots, from wherever, have visited the area.
> >
> > The whole sectarian Marching thing is merely a (very) crude territorial
> > marking thing anyway, no matter who is doing it, and has no place in
> > modern society.
>
>
> They are virtually unknown in the Borders. I say virtually because there
> has been the odd occassion. In Hawick about a quarter of a century ago
one
> was organised though there were only two or three Orangemen in the area
> interested. People wanted it banned so a couple of bus loads of bigots
came
> through from the west to give it some numbers. Then there were none until
> about two years ago when someone in their wisdom thought they'd have
another
> one in Hawick. Again I think there was only a handful of marchers and
> virtually no protesters. People just aren't interested. The interesting
> thing being though that they always harp on about tradition yet they try
to
> get marching going in areas where no such tradition exists. I'm one
person
> who's managed to go 44 years in Scotland without ever seeing even a
glimpse
> of an Orange or Republican march.
>
>
> Allan
>
>

Saw an Orange Walk in Dundee last year - no it was a tangerine - no only
kidding but I did sew an Orange Walk in Dundee - was aboot 20 people
strong - sad people.

From:	Jackie Mulheron
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:03:47 -0000

".Wee Jimmy." wrote in message
news:88kId.190273$48.17465@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "allan connochie" wrote in message
> news:41f1e377@news.greennet.net...
>>
>> "Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>> news:vuhId.188931$48.11230@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> > Jackie Mulheron wrote:
>> > > "Joe" wrote in message
>> > > news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>> > >
>> > >>"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>> > > I think we should increase VAT on crimpolene and white socks.
>> > >
>> > > That might help.
>> >
>> > No, I think the idea of making the marchers pay the full cost of their
>> > antics is a good one. A year or two ago West Lothian Council tried to
>> > charge the Orange Order the cost of cleaning up after their massive
>> > march in West Calder. I don't know if they succeeded or not, because
>> > the
>> > local Orangemen denied that the mess - some of which I observed with my
>> > own eyes, was caused by their members. As a Council Tax payer in West
>> > Lothian, I object to paying for mopping up (literally) after a load of
>> > drunken bigots, from wherever, have visited the area.
>> >
>> > The whole sectarian Marching thing is merely a (very) crude territorial
>> > marking thing anyway, no matter who is doing it, and has no place in
>> > modern society.
>>
>>
>> They are virtually unknown in the Borders. I say virtually because there
>> has been the odd occassion. In Hawick about a quarter of a century ago
> one
>> was organised though there were only two or three Orangemen in the area
>> interested. People wanted it banned so a couple of bus loads of bigots
> came
>> through from the west to give it some numbers. Then there were none
>> until
>> about two years ago when someone in their wisdom thought they'd have
> another
>> one in Hawick. Again I think there was only a handful of marchers and
>> virtually no protesters. People just aren't interested. The interesting
>> thing being though that they always harp on about tradition yet they try
> to
>> get marching going in areas where no such tradition exists. I'm one
> person
>> who's managed to go 44 years in Scotland without ever seeing even a
> glimpse
>> of an Orange or Republican march.
>>
>>
>> Allan
>>
>>
>
> Saw an Orange Walk in Dundee last year - no it was a tangerine - no only
> kidding but I did sew an Orange Walk in Dundee - was aboot 20 people
> strong - sad people.

It would have been 25 but the other were resting at her Madge's pleasure
after taking too much from a pub puggie.

From:	Glenallan
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 09:22:22 -0000

"allan connochie" wrote

> They are virtually unknown in the Borders. I say virtually because there
> has been the odd occassion. In Hawick about a quarter of a century ago
> one
> was organised though there were only two or three Orangemen in the area
> interested. People wanted it banned so a couple of bus loads of bigots
> came
> through from the west to give it some numbers. Then there were none until
> about two years ago when someone in their wisdom thought they'd have
> another
> one in Hawick. Again I think there was only a handful of marchers and
> virtually no protesters. People just aren't interested. The interesting
> thing being though that they always harp on about tradition yet they try
> to
> get marching going in areas where no such tradition exists. I'm one
> person
> who's managed to go 44 years in Scotland without ever seeing even a
> glimpse
> of an Orange or Republican march.
>
>
> Allan

I believe you.
G
--

From:	Robert Peffers
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:20:59 -0000

"allan connochie" wrote in message
news:41f1e377@news.greennet.net...
>
> "Ian Morrison" wrote in message
> news:vuhId.188931$48.11230@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Jackie Mulheron wrote:
>> > "Joe" wrote in message
>> > news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>> >
>> >>"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>> > I think we should increase VAT on crimpolene and white socks.
>> >
>> > That might help.
>>
>> No, I think the idea of making the marchers pay the full cost of their
>> antics is a good one. A year or two ago West Lothian Council tried to
>> charge the Orange Order the cost of cleaning up after their massive
>> march in West Calder. I don't know if they succeeded or not, because the
>> local Orangemen denied that the mess - some of which I observed with my
>> own eyes, was caused by their members. As a Council Tax payer in West
>> Lothian, I object to paying for mopping up (literally) after a load of
>> drunken bigots, from wherever, have visited the area.
>>
>> The whole sectarian Marching thing is merely a (very) crude territorial
>> marking thing anyway, no matter who is doing it, and has no place in
>> modern society.
>
>
> They are virtually unknown in the Borders. I say virtually because there
> has been the odd occassion. In Hawick about a quarter of a century ago
> one
> was organised though there were only two or three Orangemen in the area
> interested. People wanted it banned so a couple of bus loads of bigots
> came
> through from the west to give it some numbers. Then there were none until
> about two years ago when someone in their wisdom thought they'd have
> another
> one in Hawick. Again I think there was only a handful of marchers and
> virtually no protesters. People just aren't interested. The interesting
> thing being though that they always harp on about tradition yet they try
> to
> get marching going in areas where no such tradition exists. I'm one
> person
> who's managed to go 44 years in Scotland without ever seeing even a
> glimpse
> of an Orange or Republican march.
>
>
> Allan
>
>
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to with
anything anyway?
--

Aefauldlie, (Scots word for Honestly),
Robert, (Auld Bob), Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).
Web Site, "The Eck's Files":- http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk

From:	Ian Morrison
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:27:57 GMT

Robert Peffers wrote:

> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to with
> anything anyway?

Ask Woody Allen....

------
Ian O.

From:	Jackie Mulheron
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000

"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Robert Peffers wrote:
>
>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to
>> with anything anyway?
>
> Ask Woody Allen....

Or Frank Sinatra.

Anyone got a Weegie board?

From:	josiah-jenkins at dsl.pipex.com
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 02:03:08 +0000

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
Mulheron" :

>
>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>>
>>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to
>>> with anything anyway?
>>
>> Ask Woody Allen....
>
>Or Frank Sinatra.
>
>Anyone got a Weegie board?

Would a bored Ouija do ?

-- TDS

From:	Michilín
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 05:37:44 GMT

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 02:03:08 +0000, josiah-jenkins@dsl.pipex.com
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>Mulheron" :
>
>>
>>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>>news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>>>
>>>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to
>>>> with anything anyway?
>>>
>>> Ask Woody Allen....
>>
>>Or Frank Sinatra.
>>
>>Anyone got a Weegie board?
>
>Would a bored Ouija do ?
>
>-- TDS

Ochyeraweecoamic!

Michilín

From:	Jackie Mulheron
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:42:18 -0000

wrote in message
news:ec16v0d5m6a2n2dm8hugggrtohngsksrbk@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
> Mulheron" :
>
>>
>>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>>news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>>>
>>>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to
>>>> with anything anyway?
>>>
>>> Ask Woody Allen....
>>
>>Or Frank Sinatra.
>>
>>Anyone got a Weegie board?
>
> Would a bored Ouija do ?

Only if you can get me to Glasgoui.

From:	josiah-jenkins at dsl.pipex.com
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:57:34 +0000

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:42:18 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
Mulheron" :

>
> wrote in message
>news:ec16v0d5m6a2n2dm8hugggrtohngsksrbk@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>> Mulheron" :
>>
>>>
>>>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>>>news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to
>>>>> with anything anyway?
>>>>
>>>> Ask Woody Allen....
>>>
>>>Or Frank Sinatra.
>>>
>>>Anyone got a Weegie board?
>>
>> Would a bored Ouija do ?
>
>Only if you can get me to Glasgoui.

Zattadance ?

-- TDS

From:	Jackie Mulheron
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:03:24 -0000

wrote in message
news:09b7v0d965h1qevr20k41b84umflslummf@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:42:18 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
> Mulheron" :
>
>>
>> wrote in message
>>news:ec16v0d5m6a2n2dm8hugggrtohngsksrbk@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>>> Mulheron" :
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>>>>news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to
>>>>>> with anything anyway?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ask Woody Allen....
>>>>
>>>>Or Frank Sinatra.
>>>>
>>>>Anyone got a Weegie board?
>>>
>>> Would a bored Ouija do ?
>>
>>Only if you can get me to Glasgoui.
>
> Zattadance ?

Anyway, what would the differences be between a Ouija and a Weegie Board?

From:	Robert Peffers
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:37:55 -0000

"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
news:35hslkF41u2ueU1@individual.net...
>
> wrote in message
> news:09b7v0d965h1qevr20k41b84umflslummf@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:42:18 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>> Mulheron" :
>>
>>>
>>> wrote in message
>>>news:ec16v0d5m6a2n2dm8hugggrtohngsksrbk@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>>>> Mulheron" :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>>>>>news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> with anything anyway?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ask Woody Allen....
>>>>>
>>>>>Or Frank Sinatra.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone got a Weegie board?
>>>>
>>>> Would a bored Ouija do ?
>>>
>>>Only if you can get me to Glasgoui.
>>
>> Zattadance ?
>
> Anyway, what would the differences be between a Ouija and a Weegie Board?
>
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
The Ouija board does not have sweirie wirds oan it and it moves around with
much less staggering.
--

Aefauldlie, (Scots word for Honestly),
Robert, (Auld Bob), Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).
Web Site, "The Eck's Files":- http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk

From:	Michilín
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:06:08 GMT

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:37:55 -0000, "Robert Peffers"
wrote:

>
>"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>news:35hslkF41u2ueU1@individual.net...

>> Anyway, what would the differences be between a Ouija and a Weegie Board?
>>
>Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
>The Ouija board does not have sweirie wirds oan it and it moves around with
>much less staggering.

10/10!

Michilín

From:	Helen Ramsay
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 16:59:47 -0500

"Robert Peffers" wrote
>
> "Jackie Mulheron" wrote
> > Anyway, what would the differences be between a Ouija and
> > a Weegie Board?

> Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
> The Ouija board does not have sweirie wirds oan it and it moves
> around with much less staggering.

LOL! I like it :)
--
Cheers, Helen
hramsay at cogeco dot ca

From:	W. Jean-Pierre White
Subject:	Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:13:57 GMT

My gfather(whose father came from Ireland) once spoke about these
Orangemen's parades which deliberately pass in front of catholic
churches...What we have left of Orangemen up here are so few and so old,
they can't walk anymore...
Is it still going on in Ireland ?

William JP White

From:	westprog
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:50:48 -0000

"W. Jean-Pierre White" wrote in message
news:9ATId.1163$6f.49@charlie.risq.qc.ca...
> My gfather(whose father came from Ireland) once spoke about these
> Orangemen's parades which deliberately pass in front of catholic
> churches...What we have left of Orangemen up here are so few and so old,
> they can't walk anymore...
> Is it still going on in Ireland ?

There was a case reported recently of mass being disrupted by drums and car
horns. Might not have been the OO though.

J/

SOTW: "Deny" - The Clash
http://www.mp3.com/tracks/2164602/dl_streams.html
http://www.elyrics4u.com/d/deny_the_clash.htm

http://tinypic.com/1ev2mo
http://homepage.eircom.net/~albedo1/

From:	max.it
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:26:33 +0000 (UTC)

"W. Jean-Pierre White"

>My gfather(whose father came from Ireland) once spoke about these
>Orangemen's parades which deliberately pass in front of catholic
>churches...What we have left of Orangemen up here are so few and so old,
>they can't walk anymore...
>Is it still going on in Ireland ?
>
>William JP White
>
>

Let us know if you feel short of orange parades.

max.it (the orange cage)

From:	josiah-jenkins at dsl.pipex.com
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:57:53 +0000

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:03:24 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
Mulheron" :

>
> wrote in message
>news:09b7v0d965h1qevr20k41b84umflslummf@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:42:18 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>> Mulheron" :
>>
>>>
>>> wrote in message
>>>news:ec16v0d5m6a2n2dm8hugggrtohngsksrbk@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>>>> Mulheron" :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>>>>>news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to
>>>>>>> with anything anyway?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ask Woody Allen....
>>>>>
>>>>>Or Frank Sinatra.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone got a Weegie board?
>>>>
>>>> Would a bored Ouija do ?
>>>
>>>Only if you can get me to Glasgoui.
>>
>> Zattadance ?
>
>Anyway, what would the differences be between a Ouija and a Weegie Board?

Different spirits ?

-- TDS

From:	MacRobert
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:24:21 -0500

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:03:24 -0000, "Jackie Mulheron"
paused to reflect but wrote anyway:

>
> wrote in message
>news:09b7v0d965h1qevr20k41b84umflslummf@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:42:18 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>> Mulheron" :
>>
>>>
>>> wrote in message
>>>news:ec16v0d5m6a2n2dm8hugggrtohngsksrbk@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>>>> Mulheron" :
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>>>>>news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to
>>>>>>> with anything anyway?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ask Woody Allen....
>>>>>
>>>>>Or Frank Sinatra.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone got a Weegie board?
>>>>
>>>> Would a bored Ouija do ?
>>>
>>>Only if you can get me to Glasgoui.
>>
>> Zattadance ?
>
>Anyway, what would the differences be between a Ouija and a Weegie Board?
>

Ouija boards don't have bits of scalp and hair sticking to the
battered edges.

MacR

From:	Nebulous
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:14:35 -0000

"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
news:35hslkF41u2ueU1@individual.net...
>
> wrote in message
> news:09b7v0d965h1qevr20k41b84umflslummf@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:42:18 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
> > Mulheron" :
> >
> >>
> >> wrote in message
> >>news:ec16v0d5m6a2n2dm8hugggrtohngsksrbk@4ax.com...
> >>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
> >>> Mulheron" :
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
> >>>>news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >>>>> Robert Peffers wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got
to
> >>>>>> with anything anyway?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ask Woody Allen....
> >>>>
> >>>>Or Frank Sinatra.
> >>>>
> >>>>Anyone got a Weegie board?
> >>>
> >>> Would a bored Ouija do ?
> >>
> >>Only if you can get me to Glasgoui.
> >
> > Zattadance ?
>
> Anyway, what would the differences be between a Ouija and a Weegie Board?
>
>
About 65 stitches.

Neb

From:	Robert Peffers
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:55:09 -0000

"Nebulous" wrote in message
news:41f41370$0$16576$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
>
> "Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
> news:35hslkF41u2ueU1@individual.net...
>>
>> wrote in message
>> news:09b7v0d965h1qevr20k41b84umflslummf@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:42:18 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>> > Mulheron" :
>> >
>> >>
>> >> wrote in message
>> >>news:ec16v0d5m6a2n2dm8hugggrtohngsksrbk@4ax.com...
>> >>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 01:31:23 -0000, I read these words from "Jackie
>> >>> Mulheron" :
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>> >>>>news:1kBId.195013$48.20965@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> >>>>> Robert Peffers wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got
> to
>> >>>>>> with anything anyway?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ask Woody Allen....
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Or Frank Sinatra.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Anyone got a Weegie board?
>> >>>
>> >>> Would a bored Ouija do ?
>> >>
>> >>Only if you can get me to Glasgoui.
>> >
>> > Zattadance ?
>>
>> Anyway, what would the differences be between a Ouija and a Weegie Board?
>>
>>
> About 65 stitches.
>
> Neb
>
>
Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
More correctly, one is for raising some spirits and the other for downing
some.
--

Aefauldlie, (Scots word for Honestly),
Robert, (Auld Bob), Peffers,
Kelty,
Fife,
Scotland, (UK).
Web Site, "The Eck's Files":- http://www.peffers50.freeserve.co.uk

From:	Ian Morrison
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:26:19 GMT

Robert Peffers wrote:
> "allan connochie" wrote in message
> news:41f1e377@news.greennet.net...
>
>>"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
>>news:vuhId.188931$48.11230@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>>>Jackie Mulheron wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Joe" wrote in message
>>>>news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>I think we should increase VAT on crimpolene and white socks.
>>>>
>>>>That might help.
>>>
>>>No, I think the idea of making the marchers pay the full cost of their
>>>antics is a good one. A year or two ago West Lothian Council tried to
>>>charge the Orange Order the cost of cleaning up after their massive
>>>march in West Calder. I don't know if they succeeded or not, because the
>>>local Orangemen denied that the mess - some of which I observed with my
>>>own eyes, was caused by their members. As a Council Tax payer in West
>>>Lothian, I object to paying for mopping up (literally) after a load of
>>>drunken bigots, from wherever, have visited the area.
>>>
>>>The whole sectarian Marching thing is merely a (very) crude territorial
>>>marking thing anyway, no matter who is doing it, and has no place in
>>>modern society.
>>
>>
>>They are virtually unknown in the Borders. I say virtually because there
>>has been the odd occassion. In Hawick about a quarter of a century ago
>>one
>>was organised though there were only two or three Orangemen in the area
>>interested. People wanted it banned so a couple of bus loads of bigots
>>came
>>through from the west to give it some numbers. Then there were none until
>>about two years ago when someone in their wisdom thought they'd have
>>another
>>one in Hawick. Again I think there was only a handful of marchers and
>>virtually no protesters. People just aren't interested. The interesting
>>thing being though that they always harp on about tradition yet they try
>>to
>>get marching going in areas where no such tradition exists. I'm one
>>person
>>who's managed to go 44 years in Scotland without ever seeing even a
>>glimpse
>>of an Orange or Republican march.
>>
>>
>>Allan
>>
>>
>
> Frae Auld Bob Peffers:
> What I'd like to know is what, "The Sash Mia Farrow Wore", has got to with
> anything anyway?

From:	Jackie Mulheron
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:01:54 -0000

"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
news:vuhId.188931$48.11230@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Jackie Mulheron wrote:
>> "Joe" wrote in message
>> news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
>>
>>>"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
>>>news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...
>>>
>>>>http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
>>>>
>>>>Wed 19 Jan 2005
>>>>
>>>>Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
>>>>
>>>>HAMISH MACDONELL
>>>>SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR
>>>>
>>>>JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the number
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>>loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.
>>>>
>>>>The First Minister said he believed there were too many parades,
>>>>particularly in west and central Scotland, and he wanted to see them cut
>>>>back.
>>>>
>>>>But his remarks, coming days before publication of an independent report
>>>
>>>on
>>>
>>>>the issue, met with an angry response from the Orange Order.
>>>>
>>>>A spokesman for the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland accused Mr McConnell
>>>>of
>>>>pre-empting the findings of the Orr report into marches, which is due
>>>>next
>>>>week, and for failing even to talk to the Orange Lodge about his
>>>>concerns.
>>>>
>>>>According to the Scottish Executive, there are about 850 Orange parades
>>>>in
>>>>Scotland every year and about 17 republican marches.
>>>>
>>>>Mr McConnell wants to curb both, but because of the sheer imbalance in
>>>>the
>>>>numbers it is inevitable that the Orange Order will be harder hit.
>>>>
>>>>Robert McLean, executive officer with the Grand Orange Lodge of
>>>>Scotland,
>>>>said: "We have not made any comment on the report ahead of its
>>>>publication
>>>>but, since Mr McConnell has come out this morning I will say that I
>>>>think
>>>
>>>it
>>>
>>>>is rude for politicians to make comments before the report is published.
>>>>
>>>>"He is saying there are too many parades. If he thinks that, why has he
>>>
>>>not
>>>
>>>>spoken to us about it?"
>>>>
>>>>Mr McConnell's comments, at his monthly press conference in Edinburgh,
>>>>represent a clear attempt to lead the agenda on what has become one of
>>>>his
>>>>priorities - sectarianism.
>>>>
>>>>The First Minister commissioned Sir John Orr, the former head of
>>>
>>>Strathclyde
>>>
>>>>Police, to look into this issue and his report has already been handed
>>>>to
>>>>the Executive.
>>>>
>>>>Mr McConnell told reporters: "I think there are too many parades. I
>>>>think
>>>>far too many communities are affected too regularly by the kind of
>>>>parades
>>>>that you are referring to."
>>>>
>>>>And he added: "I think there are many communities across Scotland that
>>>
>>>would
>>>
>>>>like to see less parades and I think if they had more influence over the
>>>>decisions that were made there would be less parades.
>>>>
>>>>"I think if local authorities and the organisations involved had a
>>>
>>>framework
>>>
>>>>within which they could reach better agreements then there would be less
>>>>parades too.
>>>>
>>>>"And I think that there are certainly parts of Scotland, particularly in
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>>west of Scotland, particularly some parts of Lanarkshire, some areas in
>>>>Glasgow and some parts of Ayrshire, where there are just simply far too
>>>
>>>many
>>>
>>>>parades."
>>>>
>>>>The First Minister believes that sectarianism and religious bigotry are
>>>>holding Scotland back. He thinks the sheer number and scale of the
>>>>republican and loyalist marches which take place every year are damaging
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>>regressive, and he wants to cut them back.
>>>>
>>>>Sir John was appointed last June as an independent expert to review the
>>>>procedure for authorising traditional parades on Scotland's streets.
>>>>
>>>>His report is expected to recommend sweeping new powers for councils to
>>>>limit marches through their areas.
>>>>
>>>>The Orr committee will not recommend an outright ban on marches, but is
>>>>likely to say that councils and communities must be given more control
>>>
>>>over
>>>
>>>>them.
>>>>
>>>>The only grounds for objection that local authorities or communities
>>>>have
>>>
>>>at
>>>
>>>>present is if the police conclude there is a threat to public order by
>>>>allowing a march to go ahead or if less than seven days' notice has been
>>>>given.
>>>>
>>>>Executive sources who have seen a draft version of the Orr report say
>>>>that
>>>>the committee wants councils and communities to be given powers over
>>>>when
>>>
>>>a
>>>
>>>>march takes place and what route it follows.
>>>>
>>>>The seven-day notice rule is also likely to be extended to about 28
>>>>days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for police
>>>protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the Republicans for
>>>police
>>>protection for their respective marches. I don't see why I should pay for
>>>them,
>>
>>
>> I think we should increase VAT on crimpolene and white socks.
>>
>> That might help.
>
> No, I think the idea of making the marchers pay the full cost of their
> antics is a good one.

I was being flippant Ian. I do apologise if white socks and crimpolene are
your favourite attire....

> A year or two ago West Lothian Council tried to charge the Orange Order
> the cost of cleaning up after their massive march in West Calder.

Seriously, I have to say that surprised me since the Orange Order is a
feature ofparts of West Lothian.

> I don't know if they succeeded or not, because the local Orangemen denied
> that the mess - some of which I observed with my own eyes, was caused by
> their members.

I often see them saying thingslike that. I don't know if it's just ostrich
like denial or deliberate.

> As a Council Tax payer in West Lothian, I object to paying for mopping up
> (literally) after a load of drunken bigots, from wherever, have visited
> the area.

Bang goes the Young Conservatives conference in Livi then.

> The whole sectarian Marching thing is merely a (very) crude territorial
> marking thing anyway, no matter who is doing it, and has no place in
> modern society.

Probably, but we can't really legislate against people being prats living in
some 17th c. world that they can't seem to move on from.

> They can't even play their f***ing flutes and drums properly!

Some of them don't even play at all. They just mime and make up the numbers.

From:	Oso
Subject:	Re: Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
Date:	Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:12:10 GMT

"Ian Morrison" wrote in message
news:vuhId.188931$48.11230@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Jackie Mulheron wrote:
> > "Joe" wrote in message
> > news:41f15bd2$1_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
> >
> >>"Jackie Mulheron" wrote in message
> >>news:35d1h6F4l5odpU1@individual.net...
> >>
> >>>http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=65972005
> >>>
> >>>Wed 19 Jan 2005
> >>>
> >>>Orangemen angered by plan to cut marches
> >>>
> >>>HAMISH MACDONELL
> >>>SCOTTISH POLITICAL EDITOR
> >>>
> >>>JACK McConnell announced his determination yesterday to limit the
number
> >>
> >>of
> >>
> >>>loyalist and republican marches in Scotland.
> >>>
> >>>The First Minister said he believed there were too many parades,
> >>>particularly in west and central Scotland, and he wanted to see them
cut
> >>>back.
> >>>
> >>>But his remarks, coming days before publication of an independent
report
> >>
> >>on
> >>
> >>>the issue, met with an angry response from the Orange Order.
> >>>
> >>>A spokesman for the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland accused Mr McConnell
> >>>of
> >>>pre-empting the findings of the Orr report into marches, which is due
> >>>next
> >>>week, and for failing even to talk to the Orange Lodge about his
> >>>concerns.
> >>>
> >>>According to the Scottish Executive, there are about 850 Orange parades
> >>>in
> >>>Scotland every year and about 17 republican marches.
> >>>
> >>>Mr McConnell wants to curb both, but because of the sheer imbalance in
> >>>the
> >>>numbers it is inevitable that the Orange Order will be harder hit.
> >>>
> >>>Robert McLean, executive officer with the Grand Orange Lodge of
Scotland,
> >>>said: "We have not made any comment on the report ahead of its
> >>>publication
> >>>but, since Mr McConnell has come out this morning I will say that I
think
> >>
> >>it
> >>
> >>>is rude for politicians to make comments before the report is
published.
> >>>
> >>>"He is saying there are too many parades. If he thinks that, why has he
> >>
> >>not
> >>
> >>>spoken to us about it?"
> >>>
> >>>Mr McConnell's comments, at his monthly press conference in Edinburgh,
> >>>represent a clear attempt to lead the agenda on what has become one of
> >>>his
> >>>priorities - sectarianism.
> >>>
> >>>The First Minister commissioned Sir John Orr, the former head of
> >>
> >>Strathclyde
> >>
> >>>Police, to look into this issue and his report has already been handed
to
> >>>the Executive.
> >>>
> >>>Mr McConnell told reporters: "I think there are too many parades. I
think
> >>>far too many communities are affected too regularly by the kind of
> >>>parades
> >>>that you are referring to."
> >>>
> >>>And he added: "I think there are many communities across Scotland that
> >>
> >>would
> >>
> >>>like to see less parades and I think if they had more influence over
the
> >>>decisions that were made there would be less parades.
> >>>
> >>>"I think if local authorities and the organisations involved had a
> >>
> >>framework
> >>
> >>>within which they could reach better agreements then there would be
less
> >>>parades too.
> >>>
> >>>"And I think that there are certainly parts of Scotland, particularly
in
> >>
> >>the
> >>
> >>>west of Scotland, particularly some parts of Lanarkshire, some areas in
> >>>Glasgow and some parts of Ayrshire, where there are just simply far too
> >>
> >>many
> >>
> >>>parades."
> >>>
> >>>The First Minister believes that sectarianism and religious bigotry are
> >>>holding Scotland back. He thinks the sheer number and scale of the
> >>>republican and loyalist marches which take place every year are
damaging
> >>
> >>and
> >>
> >>>regressive, and he wants to cut them back.
> >>>
> >>>Sir John was appointed last June as an independent expert to review the
> >>>procedure for authorising traditional parades on Scotland's streets.
> >>>
> >>>His report is expected to recommend sweeping new powers for councils to
> >>>limit marches through their areas.
> >>>
> >>>The Orr committee will not recommend an outright ban on marches, but is
> >>>likely to say that councils and communities must be given more control
> >>
> >>over
> >>
> >>>them.
> >>>
> >>>The only grounds for objection that local authorities or communities
have
> >>
> >>at
> >>
> >>>present is if the police conclude there is a threat to public order by
> >>>allowing a march to go ahead or if less than seven days' notice has
been
> >>>given.
> >>>
> >>>Executive sources who have seen a draft version of the Orr report say
> >>>that
> >>>the committee wants councils and communities to be given powers over
when
> >>
> >>a
> >>
> >>>march takes place and what route it follows.
> >>>
> >>>The seven-day notice rule is also likely to be extended to about 28
days.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>The new legislation in England wants to charge the publicans for police
> >>protection. Why not charge the Orange Order and the Republicans for
police
> >>protection for their respective marches. I don't see why