The Old Town Pizzeria, which was so awful for the past few years, has a
new owner. I had a couple of slices of pizza which were actually good!
Much better than Pizza Bella. No more Middle easterners making
Italian... :-)

--
* John Oliver http://www.john-oliver.net/ *
* California gun owners - protect your rights and join the CRPA today! *
* http://www.crpa.org/ Free 3 month trial membership available *
* San Diego shooters come to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sdshooting/ *

From:	Brian Saunders
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	5 Jan 2005 10:50:59 -0800

Cliff wrote:
> In article <1104213954.880144@news-1.nethere.net>,
> Jim Lane wrote:

> > That last clarifies matters. Too bad about your ethnic
"prejudices." I
> > have had excellent Chinese food prepared by Mexicans, Mexican food
by
> > Chinese . . ., Greek food by Afghani . . .

> My, aren't we politically righteous! I bet you believe the crippled
80
> year old Norwegian should be searched at the airport too, so that
that
> no one is "offended".

What Jim was saying was that being a good cook/chef of a particular
cuisine has little to do with their ethnicity, as long as they were
trained well. That hardly is a "politically righteous" concept. Don't
try to turn this into something this is not. I swear that some people
look for examples of "political correctness" just so they can whine
about it.

From:	Paul Broadway
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Wed, 05 Jan 2005 19:47:52 GMT

"Brian Saunders" wrote in message
news:1104951059.453354.72650@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> What Jim was saying was that being a good cook/chef of a particular
> cuisine has little to do with their ethnicity, as long as they were
> trained well. That hardly is a "politically righteous" concept. Don't
> try to turn this into something this is not. I swear that some people
> look for examples of "political correctness" just so they can whine
> about it.

I would rather "wine" about it myself. After all, who hasn't had a
wonderful (you add the ethnicity) meal made by fine Mexican cooks in San
Diego? Don't even get me started about donuts. You can have all the Krispy
Kremes you want, I want my donuts made by little hands that were inprisoned
by Pol Pot! The Cambodians make the best donuts in the world, in my
opinion.
--
Paul Broadway
www.broadwaypub.com
San Diego, Ca.

From:	firechief
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Wed, 5 Jan 2005 21:25:49 -0800

Paul Broadway wrote:

> Don't even get me started about donuts. You can have
> all the Krispy Kremes you want,

No one may be able to have Krispy Kremes, if the head
office can't come up with some creative - legal - financing.

From:	Paul Broadway
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:49:57 GMT

"firechief" wrote in message
news:t04Dd.11254$232.9843@fed1read05...
> Paul Broadway wrote:
>
> > Don't even get me started about donuts. You can have
> > all the Krispy Kremes you want,
>
> No one may be able to have Krispy Kremes, if the head
> office can't come up with some creative - legal - financing.

I never liked them, personally. They are too gooey and sweet. I love the
donuts that the Cambodians make. They are more bread-like and less sugared.
One of my favorite things to do when I can't sleep, is go to the donut shop
at 3:30am and get them fresh from the oil. Just the smell of a hot, fresh
dozen in the car is a sedative medical science has yet to create.
--
Paul Broadway
www.broadwaypub.com
San Diego, Ca.

From:	Jim Lane
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 16:05:36 -0800

Paul Broadway wrote:
> "firechief" wrote in message
> news:t04Dd.11254$232.9843@fed1read05...
>
>>Paul Broadway wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Don't even get me started about donuts. You can have
>>>all the Krispy Kremes you want,
>>
>> No one may be able to have Krispy Kremes, if the head
>> office can't come up with some creative - legal - financing.
>
>
> I never liked them, personally. They are too gooey and sweet. I love the
> donuts that the Cambodians make. They are more bread-like and less sugared.
> One of my favorite things to do when I can't sleep, is go to the donut shop
> at 3:30am and get them fresh from the oil. Just the smell of a hot, fresh
> dozen in the car is a sedative medical science has yet to create.
> --
> Paul Broadway
> www.broadwaypub.com
> San Diego, Ca.
>
>

I know of two placesa open at that hour, one is Mary's (my favorite
although it is a drive to Santee) and the other on Washington St. (Donut
Star?).

Any others worth mentioning?

jim

From:	Paul Broadway
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 00:29:41 GMT

"Jim Lane" wrote in message
news:1105056336.352122@news-1.nethere.net...

> I know of two placesa open at that hour, one is Mary's (my favorite
> although it is a drive to Santee) and the other on Washington St. (Donut
> Star?).
>
> Any others worth mentioning?
>
>
> jim

I like the Donut Factory at the corner of Lincoln and 30th. I also like
Donuts-Plus at El Cajon Blvd and 41st. I usually go to the Donut Factory
because it is closer to my domicile. Occaisionally, I will go to Donut-Plus
just to drink their coffee (usually weaker than most) and have a cinnamon
roll. I don't go in for fancy coffeee, so I usually go to diners and donut
shops. Folger's is fine with me.
--
Paul Broadway
www.broadwaypub.com
San Diego, Ca.

From:	firechief
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Thu, 6 Jan 2005 22:57:41 -0800

Paul Broadway wrote:

> I like the Donut Factory at the corner of Lincoln and 30th.

I remember when that opened in 1996-97, sandwiched
between a 7-11 (now a laundry) and Chief Auto Parts
(both owned by the same Texas conglomerate).

From:	Jim Lane
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:31:04 -0800

Paul Broadway wrote:
> "Jim Lane" wrote in message
> news:1105056336.352122@news-1.nethere.net...
>
>
>>I know of two placesa open at that hour, one is Mary's (my favorite
>>although it is a drive to Santee) and the other on Washington St. (Donut
>>Star?).
>>
>>Any others worth mentioning?
>>
>>
>>jim
>
>
> I like the Donut Factory at the corner of Lincoln and 30th. I also like
> Donuts-Plus at El Cajon Blvd and 41st. I usually go to the Donut Factory
> because it is closer to my domicile. Occaisionally, I will go to Donut-Plus
> just to drink their coffee (usually weaker than most) and have a cinnamon
> roll. I don't go in for fancy coffeee, so I usually go to diners and donut
> shops. Folger's is fine with me.
> --
> Paul Broadway
> www.broadwaypub.com
> San Diego, Ca.
>
>

Thinking I'll try to beat the rain and get out tonight and get a half
dozen for the morning. Good donuts and home-roasted Hawaiian Kona. . .

Sounds like a plot. Both are nearby amd I have been to Donuts Plus.
Never seem to have French Cruellers when I am there. Sooo, to the
Factory I will go - late.

jim

From:	derdude
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Fri, 7 Jan 2005 20:57:30 -0800

In article <1105079464.822457@news-1.nethere.net>, ensenadajim@yahoo.com
says...
> Paul Broadway wrote:
> > "Jim Lane" wrote in message
> > news:1105056336.352122@news-1.nethere.net...

Are we talking donuts? How about VG Donuts in Cardiff? I have been going
there since 1967.

> >
> >
> >>I know of two placesa open at that hour, one is Mary's (my favorite
> >>although it is a drive to Santee) and the other on Washington St. (Donut
> >>Star?).
> >>
> >>Any others worth mentioning?
> >>
> >>
> >>jim
> >
> >
> > I like the Donut Factory at the corner of Lincoln and 30th. I also like
> > Donuts-Plus at El Cajon Blvd and 41st. I usually go to the Donut Factory
> > because it is closer to my domicile. Occaisionally, I will go to Donut-Plus
> > just to drink their coffee (usually weaker than most) and have a cinnamon
> > roll. I don't go in for fancy coffeee, so I usually go to diners and donut
> > shops. Folger's is fine with me.
> > --
> > Paul Broadway
> > www.broadwaypub.com
> > San Diego, Ca.
> >
> >
>
> Thinking I'll try to beat the rain and get out tonight and get a half
> dozen for the morning. Good donuts and home-roasted Hawaiian Kona. . .
>
> Sounds like a plot. Both are nearby amd I have been to Donuts Plus.
> Never seem to have French Cruellers when I am there. Sooo, to the
> Factory I will go - late.
>
>
> jim
>

From:	Paul Broadway
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Sun, 09 Jan 2005 18:38:52 GMT

"derdude" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c490815c5bfec73989691@news.newsguy.com...
> In article <1105079464.822457@news-1.nethere.net>, ensenadajim@yahoo.com
> says...
> > Paul Broadway wrote:
> > > "Jim Lane" wrote in message
> > > news:1105056336.352122@news-1.nethere.net...
>
> Are we talking donuts? How about VG Donuts in Cardiff? I have been going
> there since 1967.

DerDude, I never go that far north. I avoid freeway travel like the plague.
--
Paul Broadway
www.broadwaypub.com
San Diego, Ca.

From:	derdude
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:38:55 -0800

If you ever get up this way..... Give them a try...

In article <0TeEd.2115$C52.1982@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
sdbar@earthlink.net says...
>
> "derdude" wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c490815c5bfec73989691@news.newsguy.com...
> > In article <1105079464.822457@news-1.nethere.net>, ensenadajim@yahoo.com
> > says...
> > > Paul Broadway wrote:
> > > > "Jim Lane" wrote in message
> > > > news:1105056336.352122@news-1.nethere.net...
> >
> > Are we talking donuts? How about VG Donuts in Cardiff? I have been going
> > there since 1967.
>
> DerDude, I never go that far north. I avoid freeway travel like the plague.
> --
> Paul Broadway
> www.broadwaypub.com
> San Diego, Ca.
>
>
>

From:	Paul Broadway
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:56:16 GMT

"derdude" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c4cf839faa174b0989692@news.newsguy.com...
>
> If you ever get up this way..... Give them a try...
>
>

Perhaps the next time that I go up to Los Angeles I will stop in. That will
be in March.
--
Paul Broadway
www.broadwaypub.com
San Diego, Ca.

From:	Jim Lane
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Sun, 09 Jan 2005 11:23:54 -0800

Paul Broadway wrote:
> "derdude" wrote in message
> news:MPG.1c490815c5bfec73989691@news.newsguy.com...
>
>>In article <1105079464.822457@news-1.nethere.net>, ensenadajim@yahoo.com
>>says...
>>
>>>Paul Broadway wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Jim Lane" wrote in message
>>>>news:1105056336.352122@news-1.nethere.net...
>>
>>Are we talking donuts? How about VG Donuts in Cardiff? I have been going
>>there since 1967.
>
>
> DerDude, I never go that far north. I avoid freeway travel like the plague.
> --
> Paul Broadway
> www.broadwaypub.com
> San Diego, Ca.
>
>

Misplaced the beginning of the sub-thread.

Went to the donut place on ECB and they do not do the cruellers. Went to
Donut Star. Very much better than I remembered. If these are an "8" then
the 30th St. place is a "2" for these particular donuts.

Mary's is still best.

jim

From:	Bart Bailey
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Sun, 09 Jan 2005 15:14:30 -0800

In Message-ID:<1105298632.500187@news-1.nethere.net> posted on Sun, 09
Jan 2005 11:23:54 -0800, Jim Lane wrote: Begin

>Went to the donut place on ECB and they do not do the cruellers. Went to
>Donut Star. Very much better than I remembered. If these are an "8" then
>the 30th St. place is a "2" for these particular donuts.

Donut evaluation can sometimes get mired in the cross comparison between
cake donuts, and yeast donuts. Each has its advocates, and a shop
selling the preferred kind generally ranks better than one selling the
other. I'm more partial to the yeast variety like Krispy Kreme than the
cake style cruller.

--

Bart

From:	Jim Lane
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Sun, 09 Jan 2005 15:51:02 -0800

Bart Bailey wrote:
> In Message-ID:<1105298632.500187@news-1.nethere.net> posted on Sun, 09
> Jan 2005 11:23:54 -0800, Jim Lane wrote: Begin
>
>
>>Went to the donut place on ECB and they do not do the cruellers. Went to
>>Donut Star. Very much better than I remembered. If these are an "8" then
>>the 30th St. place is a "2" for these particular donuts.
>
>
> Donut evaluation can sometimes get mired in the cross comparison between
> cake donuts, and yeast donuts. Each has its advocates, and a shop
> selling the preferred kind generally ranks better than one selling the
> other. I'm more partial to the yeast variety like Krispy Kreme than the
> cake style cruller.
>

Cruellers are not cake style, if they are done right. They are very
different. Old fashioned and non-raised donuts are cake donuts.

jim

From:	Bart Bailey
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Sun, 09 Jan 2005 16:36:47 -0800

In Message-ID:<1105314660.457041@news-1.nethere.net> posted on Sun, 09
Jan 2005 15:51:02 -0800, Jim Lane wrote: Begin

>Bart Bailey wrote:
>> In Message-ID:<1105298632.500187@news-1.nethere.net> posted on Sun, 09
>> Jan 2005 11:23:54 -0800, Jim Lane wrote: Begin
>>
>>
>>>Went to the donut place on ECB and they do not do the cruellers. Went to
>>>Donut Star. Very much better than I remembered. If these are an "8" then
>>>the 30th St. place is a "2" for these particular donuts.
>>
>>
>> Donut evaluation can sometimes get mired in the cross comparison between
>> cake donuts, and yeast donuts. Each has its advocates, and a shop
>> selling the preferred kind generally ranks better than one selling the
>> other. I'm more partial to the yeast variety like Krispy Kreme than the
>> cake style cruller.
>>
>
>Cruellers are not cake style, if they are done right. They are very
>different. Old fashioned and non-raised donuts are cake donuts.
>
>
>jim

Then I guess it comes down to what "done right" means.
http://www.bartleby.com/61/60/C0776000.html

--

Bart

From:	Jim Lane
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Sun, 09 Jan 2005 20:56:07 -0800

Bart Bailey wrote:
> In Message-ID:<1105314660.457041@news-1.nethere.net> posted on Sun, 09
> Jan 2005 15:51:02 -0800, Jim Lane wrote: Begin
>
>
>>Bart Bailey wrote:
>>
>>>In Message-ID:<1105298632.500187@news-1.nethere.net> posted on Sun, 09
>>>Jan 2005 11:23:54 -0800, Jim Lane wrote: Begin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Went to the donut place on ECB and they do not do the cruellers. Went to
>>>>Donut Star. Very much better than I remembered. If these are an "8" then
>>>>the 30th St. place is a "2" for these particular donuts.
>>>
>>>
>>>Donut evaluation can sometimes get mired in the cross comparison between
>>>cake donuts, and yeast donuts. Each has its advocates, and a shop
>>>selling the preferred kind generally ranks better than one selling the
>>>other. I'm more partial to the yeast variety like Krispy Kreme than the
>>>cake style cruller.
>>>
>>
>>Cruellers are not cake style, if they are done right. They are very
>>different. Old fashioned and non-raised donuts are cake donuts.
>>
>>
>>jim
>
>
> Then I guess it comes down to what "done right" means.
> http://www.bartleby.com/61/60/C0776000.html
>

Tell you what, let's see if ythge definition meets reality. If you are
in San Diego, I suggest we go to Donut Star and you can try all three
donuts and thgen tell me the dough is the same.

Simple enough, and to prove the point, I'll buy.

What say? Will have to be after Weds this week, next week my schedule
changes again.

Are you on?

Yo, Paul, care to join us?

jim

From:	Paul Broadway
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:34:33 GMT

"Jim Lane" wrote in message
news:1105332964.623327@news-1.nethere.net...
> > Then I guess it comes down to what "done right" means.
> > http://www.bartleby.com/61/60/C0776000.html
> >
>
> Tell you what, let's see if ythge definition meets reality. If you are
> in San Diego, I suggest we go to Donut Star and you can try all three
> donuts and thgen tell me the dough is the same.
>
> Simple enough, and to prove the point, I'll buy.
>
> What say? Will have to be after Weds this week, next week my schedule
> changes again.
>
> Are you on?
>
> Yo, Paul, care to join us?

Sure, but remember that I am not much of a morning person. I don't usually
go anywhere until after 12:00pm.
--
Paul Broadway
www.broadwaypub.com
San Diego, Ca.

From:	Paul Broadway
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 03:44:19 GMT

"Jim Lane" wrote in message
news:1105314660.457041@news-1.nethere.net...
> Cruellers are not cake style, if they are done right. They are very
> different. Old fashioned and non-raised donuts are cake donuts.
>
>
> jim

I, personally find the Old Fashioned to be pure bliss in a baked/fried good.
Then there is the Cinnamon Roll, a perfect breakfast treat. It all depends
on your likes and desires, that is what the Cambodian donut shops have over
anyone else. No one else is going to go to the trouble of making the
variety of donuts that they are willing to make on a daily basis. After
being oppressed by leaders like Pol Pot, they come here and make the
American dream come true. That is why I will always patronize their shops
before a Winchells or Krispy Kreme, that, and they do taste better.
--
Paul Broadway
www.broadwaypub.com
San Diego, Ca.

From:	derdude
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:43:06 -0800

I had a KK once... It was like a hot greasy sponge to me.

In article <41e5b7ea.3815501@bart.spawar.mil>, me2@privacy.net says...
> In Message-ID:<1105298632.500187@news-1.nethere.net> posted on Sun, 09
> Jan 2005 11:23:54 -0800, Jim Lane wrote: Begin
>
> >Went to the donut place on ECB and they do not do the cruellers. Went to
> >Donut Star. Very much better than I remembered. If these are an "8" then
> >the 30th St. place is a "2" for these particular donuts.
>
> Donut evaluation can sometimes get mired in the cross comparison between
> cake donuts, and yeast donuts. Each has its advocates, and a shop
> selling the preferred kind generally ranks better than one selling the
> other. I'm more partial to the yeast variety like Krispy Kreme than the
> cake style cruller.
>
>

From:	Paul Broadway
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:54:55 GMT

"derdude" wrote in message
news:MPG.1c4cf930a2c04a5989693@news.newsguy.com...
>
> I had a KK once... It was like a hot greasy sponge to me.

I concur!

--
Paul Broadway
www.broadwaypub.com
San Diego, Ca.

From:	firechief
Subject:	Donuts (was: Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?)
Date:	Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:13:24 -0800

> I had a KK once... It was like a hot greasy sponge to me.

That describes exactly what sample I once had.

Never could put the words together to express by (dis)taste.

From:	derdude
Subject:	Re: Donuts (was: Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?)
Date:	Wed, 12 Jan 2005 20:54:23 -0800

Not something you would want to do again....

In article , firechief@jjfpd.gov says...
> > I had a KK once... It was like a hot greasy sponge to me.
>
> That describes exactly what sample I once had.
>
> Never could put the words together to express by (dis)taste.
>
>
>

From:	Jim Lane
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 02:02:27 -0800

Jim Lane wrote:

> Paul Broadway wrote:
>
>> "Jim Lane" wrote in message
>> news:1105056336.352122@news-1.nethere.net...
>>
>>
>>> I know of two placesa open at that hour, one is Mary's (my favorite
>>> although it is a drive to Santee) and the other on Washington St. (Donut
>>> Star?).
>>>
>>> Any others worth mentioning?
>>>
>>>
>>> jim
>>
>>
>>
>> I like the Donut Factory at the corner of Lincoln and 30th. I also like
>> Donuts-Plus at El Cajon Blvd and 41st. I usually go to the Donut Factory
>> because it is closer to my domicile. Occaisionally, I will go to
>> Donut-Plus
>> just to drink their coffee (usually weaker than most) and have a cinnamon
>> roll. I don't go in for fancy coffeee, so I usually go to diners and
>> donut
>> shops. Folger's is fine with me.
>> --
>> Paul Broadway
>> www.broadwaypub.com
>> San Diego, Ca.
>>
>>
>
> Thinking I'll try to beat the rain and get out tonight and get a half
> dozen for the morning. Good donuts and home-roasted Hawaiian Kona. . .
>
> Sounds like a plot. Both are nearby amd I have been to Donuts Plus.
> Never seem to have French Cruellers when I am there. Sooo, to the
> Factory I will go - late.
>
>
> jim

Went to the Donut Factory and bought a half dozen cruellers - ate two
there (chocolate and strawberry). The donut part is about the same as
the other places, just a tad heavier. It is a different dough than
normal donuts and if it not done right it is either too dry or it is
runny inside. Good air inside. Okay so far.

The frosting, OTOH, is not very good at all. Too much, too heavy and too
sweet for these. DF places a distant third below Mary's and Donut Star
for French cruellers.

I do want to try their eggrolls, though.

jim

From:	Paul Broadway
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 19:32:25 GMT

"Jim Lane" wrote in message
news:1105092149.153589@news-1.nethere.net...
> Jim Lane wrote:
>
> Went to the Donut Factory and bought a half dozen cruellers - ate two
> there (chocolate and strawberry). The donut part is about the same as
> the other places, just a tad heavier. It is a different dough than
> normal donuts and if it not done right it is either too dry or it is
> runny inside. Good air inside. Okay so far.
>
> The frosting, OTOH, is not very good at all. Too much, too heavy and too
> sweet for these. DF places a distant third below Mary's and Donut Star
> for French cruellers.
>
> I do want to try their eggrolls, though.

Whatever you do, don't buy the hotdog. It is the same hotdog they have been
trying to sell since...............
--
Paul Broadway
www.broadwaypub.com
San Diego, Ca.

From:	firechief
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Thu, 6 Jan 2005 22:52:09 -0800

Jim Lane wrote:

> I know of two placesa open at that hour, one is Mary's (my favorite
> although it is a drive to Santee) and the other on Washington St.
> (Donut Star?).

There is/was a Donut Star at University & Texas for decades.

Now I wonder if they've moved, or expanded.

Ummmmmmm, seems they're at Fairmount & University and
West Washington around Eagle/Falcon.

From:	Jim Lane
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Fri, 07 Jan 2005 01:57:15 -0800

firechief wrote:
> Jim Lane wrote:
>
>
>>I know of two placesa open at that hour, one is Mary's (my favorite
>>although it is a drive to Santee) and the other on Washington St.
>>(Donut Star?).
>
>
> There is/was a Donut Star at University & Texas for decades.
>
> Now I wonder if they've moved, or expanded.
>
> Ummmmmmm, seems they're at Fairmount & University and
> West Washington around Eagle/Falcon.
>
>

I go to the one on Washington.

jim

From:	Jim Lane
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:59:28 -0800

John Oliver wrote:
> The Old Town Pizzeria, which was so awful for the past few years, has a
> new owner. I had a couple of slices of pizza which were actually good!
> Much better than Pizza Bella. No more Middle easterners making
> Italian... :-)
>

Up until Pizza Bella was sold a few months back, Pizza Bella was Mexican
cooks and the owner as white as I am. Randy is still working the wine
business, but finally, couldn;t handle two full-time careers.

Got anything against Middle Easterners, other than for making pizzas?

One of the waiters there used to work about two blocks from where I
live. His uncle owns the place.

I tried their "pizza" (Italian quesadilla) appetizer and found it very
good. The salad was par for the course in any pizza place. If their
pizza is on par with that, it will be a good pizza (being as they are
still using Randy's recipes).

jim

From:	John Oliver
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:24:18 GMT

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:59:28 -0800, Jim Lane wrote:
> John Oliver wrote:
>> The Old Town Pizzeria, which was so awful for the past few years, has a
>> new owner. I had a couple of slices of pizza which were actually good!
>> Much better than Pizza Bella. No more Middle easterners making
>> Italian... :-)
>>
>
> Up until Pizza Bella was sold a few months back, Pizza Bella was Mexican
> cooks and the owner as white as I am. Randy is still working the wine
> business, but finally, couldn;t handle two full-time careers.

I've never been a fan of Pizza Bella. OK pizza. Terrible lasagna.

> Got anything against Middle Easterners, other than for making pizzas?

No. I would complain about Mexicans making Middle eastern food, too...
:-) The "Middle Easterners" was Old Town Pizzeria, not Pizza Bella...
:-)

--
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From:	Jim Lane
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:05:54 -0800

John Oliver wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:59:28 -0800, Jim Lane wrote:
>
>>John Oliver wrote:
>>
>>>The Old Town Pizzeria, which was so awful for the past few years, has a
>>>new owner. I had a couple of slices of pizza which were actually good!
>>>Much better than Pizza Bella. No more Middle easterners making
>>>Italian... :-)
>>>
>>
>>Up until Pizza Bella was sold a few months back, Pizza Bella was Mexican
>>cooks and the owner as white as I am. Randy is still working the wine
>>business, but finally, couldn;t handle two full-time careers.
>
>
> I've never been a fan of Pizza Bella. OK pizza. Terrible lasagna.

The name wasn't a clue? ;->

>>Got anything against Middle Easterners, other than for making pizzas?
>
>
> No. I would complain about Mexicans making Middle eastern food, too...
> :-) The "Middle Easterners" was Old Town Pizzeria, not Pizza Bella...
> :-)
>

That last clarifies matters. Too bad about your ethnic "prejudices." I
have had excellent Chinese food prepared by Mexicans, Mexican food by
Chinese . . ., Greek food by Afghani . . .

There is an advantage in being steeped in the culture but a talented
cook can overcome that.

jim

jim

From:	Scotty B
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	29 Dec 2004 13:38:14 -0800

Bos34 wrote:
> My favorite Japanese udon noodle-soup
> restaurant in San Diego is owned and run (and cooked) by a Chinese
family from
> Viet Nam.

So, the important question is, what are the details on this restaurant?
:-) Thanks...

SB

From:	Bos34
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	05 Jan 2005 01:02:56 GMT

>Bos34 wrote:
>> My favorite Japanese udon noodle-soup
>> restaurant in San Diego is owned and run (and cooked) by a Chinese
>family from
>> Viet Nam.
>
>So, the important question is, what are the details on this restaurant?
>:-) Thanks...

I'm sorry... I've posted on them before, so I didn't think to repost.

Dao Son, on the north side of El Cajon Blvd half-a-block to the west of Texas
Street (on the same block as Pomegranite). Get the House Special Nabeyaki Udon
Soup, and you'll have a treat on your hands.

From:	Charles Gifford
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:59:35 GMT

"Jim Lane" wrote in message
news:1104213954.880144@news-1.nethere.net...
> John Oliver wrote:
> > On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:59:28 -0800, Jim Lane wrote:
> >
> >>John Oliver wrote:
> >>
> >>>The Old Town Pizzeria, which was so awful for the past few years, has a
> >>>new owner. I had a couple of slices of pizza which were actually good!
> >>>Much better than Pizza Bella. No more Middle easterners making
> >>>Italian... :-)
> >>>
> >>
> >>Up until Pizza Bella was sold a few months back, Pizza Bella was Mexican
> >>cooks and the owner as white as I am. Randy is still working the wine
> >>business, but finally, couldn;t handle two full-time careers.
> >
> >
> > I've never been a fan of Pizza Bella. OK pizza. Terrible lasagna.
>
> The name wasn't a clue? ;->

You have a point there Jim!

> >>Got anything against Middle Easterners, other than for making pizzas?
> >
> >
> > No. I would complain about Mexicans making Middle eastern food, too...
> > :-) The "Middle Easterners" was Old Town Pizzeria, not Pizza Bella...
> > :-)
> >
>
> That last clarifies matters. Too bad about your ethnic "prejudices." I
> have had excellent Chinese food prepared by Mexicans, Mexican food by
> Chinese . . ., Greek food by Afghani . . .
>
> There is an advantage in being steeped in the culture but a talented
> cook can overcome that.
>
>
> jim

Boys, boys! We may be talking about Americans. The point about "ethnic
culture" may have relavance or not, but still, the Greek, Mexican, Chinese,
Afghani, etc. cooks. we may be talking about may be Americans. We are also
talking about cooks. Cooks have only a minimal contribution to a
restaurant's final product. It is up to the restaurant's chef (or at least
head cook) how the food is prepared and presented. A cook's ethnicity should
have not effect on the product. The chef's probably would have depending on
his training.

Charlie

>
>
> jim

From:	Bos34
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	28 Dec 2004 22:06:44 GMT

1. I seem to recall having eaten "decent" Italian food in Old Town... at Jack
and Giulio's, no?

2. It's not ethnicity that counts, it one's dedication to food that matters.
I've known some good Mexican sushi chefs who carefully watched their Japanese
counterparts and learned proper technique and flavors. I'm not Mexican, but I
cook mean autherntic Mexican food, because I care about authentic flavors,
ingredients, and technique.

If you go into any halfway decent restaurant kitchen in DC or Boston, you're
likely to find at least some, and perhaps most of the cooking staff is
Salvadoran. As a group, they've been eager to learn, hard-working, and
dedicated (though I'd like someone to explain to me how Salvadorans, who make
virtually all of the bagels in DC, cannot produce a decent bagel once back in
El Salvador).

There's a very popular Italian restaurant in Boston--Vinny Testa's--that's
actually owned by a non-Italian Jew. My favorite Japanese udon noodle-soup
restaurant in San Diego is owned and run (and cooked) by a Chinese family from
Viet Nam.

Yes, there are too many cases of people cooking out of their knowledge base (or
limit of caring); the results can be discomfiting, to say the least. But a
dedication to flavors, textures, ingredients, techniques, and ultimate results
can transcend culture and ethnicity. To those brave chefs who have adopted a
foreign cusine as their own, and have brought their creativity, intelligence,
and good taste to bear, I say: thank you.

From:	Charles Gifford
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Tue, 28 Dec 2004 23:38:14 GMT

"Bos34" wrote in message
news:20041228170644.21805.00002264@mb-m14.aol.com...
> 1. I seem to recall having eaten "decent" Italian food in Old Town... at
Jack
> and Giulio's, no?

For Italian food Jack and Giulio's is tops. But this unfortunately "subject
headed" thread is about pizza places. Not comparable to real Italian food in
any way.

> 2. It's not ethnicity that counts, it one's dedication to food that
matters.
> I've known some good Mexican sushi chefs who carefully watched their
Japanese
> counterparts and learned proper technique and flavors.

One problem here, which I have seen before, is the misunderstanding of the
terms cook and chef. Both are specific terms. A chef is a person who is in
charge of a number of cooks. A chef does not necessarily do any cooking,
but, rather, supervises his/her cooks. A restaurant's food product is the
responsibility of the chef (at the direction the restaurant's owner if
applicable). Any cook worthy of employment should be able to do the
necessary technical and sensory cooking that the chef requires..........not
matter their ethnicity. Almost all cooking techniques are the same. If a
cook has trouble executing a procedure, it is up to the restaurant's chef to
take care of it. A cook can be of any ethnic background. A chef can too, but
must be trained in the particular type of food the restaurant serves.

I know a chef who is an American of Japanese descent who trained in France.
I, personally, was instructed in German cooking, by a German who trained in
Belgium with a German Executive Chef. He had also been trained in
Switzerland by a French Chef who was an Executive German Chef. I have also
trained in Italian cuisine (by a German and an Italian) and have twice been
offered positions as Sous Chef in Italian cuisine. As I have dual Irish and
US citizenship, I could have been an Irish chef of Italian cooking or an
American chef of Italian cooking. Indeed I could have been and Irish,
Belgian trained, German Chef.

Sooooo. For chefs, it doesn't make any difference what the ethnicity is. It
depends on the training in the cuisine in question and the ability to
supervise cooks. For cooks, again, ethnicity doesn't make any difference, it
is the training in basic cooking techniques.

But getting back to your good and important point, there is a great
difference between Italian cuisine and pizza restaurants, which are pretty
much an American invention.

Charlie

From:	Cliff
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Wed, 05 Jan 2005 08:32:19 -0800

In article <1104213954.880144@news-1.nethere.net>,
Jim Lane wrote:

> John Oliver wrote:
> > On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:59:28 -0800, Jim Lane wrote:
> >
> >>John Oliver wrote:
> >>
> >>>The Old Town Pizzeria, which was so awful for the past few years, has a
> >>>new owner. I had a couple of slices of pizza which were actually good!
> >>>Much better than Pizza Bella. No more Middle easterners making
> >>>Italian... :-)
> >>>
> >>
> >>Up until Pizza Bella was sold a few months back, Pizza Bella was Mexican
> >>cooks and the owner as white as I am. Randy is still working the wine
> >>business, but finally, couldn;t handle two full-time careers.
> >
> >
> > I've never been a fan of Pizza Bella. OK pizza. Terrible lasagna.
>
> The name wasn't a clue? ;->
>
>
>
> >>Got anything against Middle Easterners, other than for making pizzas?
> >
> >
> > No. I would complain about Mexicans making Middle eastern food, too...
> > :-) The "Middle Easterners" was Old Town Pizzeria, not Pizza Bella...
> > :-)
> >
>
> That last clarifies matters. Too bad about your ethnic "prejudices." I
> have had excellent Chinese food prepared by Mexicans, Mexican food by
> Chinese . . ., Greek food by Afghani . . .
>
My, aren't we politically righteous! I bet you believe the crippled 80
year old Norwegian should be searched at the airport too, so that that
no one is "offended".

From:	Jim Lane
Subject:	Re: Decent Italian returns to Old Town?
Date:	Wed, 05 Jan 2005 12:51:06 -0800

Cliff wrote:
> In article <1104213954.880144@news-1.nethere.net>,
> Jim Lane wrote:
>
>
>>John Oliver wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:59:28 -0800, Jim Lane wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>John Oliver wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The Old Town Pizzeria, which was so awful for the past few years, has a
>>>>>new owner. I had a couple of slices of pizza which were actually good!
>>>>>Much better than Pizza Bella. No more Middle easterners making
>>>>>Italian... :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Up until Pizza Bella was sold a few months back, Pizza Bella was Mexican
>>>>cooks and the owner as white as I am. Randy is still working the wine
>>>>business, but finally, couldn;t handle two full-time careers.
>>>
>>>
>>>I've never been a fan of Pizza Bella. OK pizza. Terrible lasagna.
>>
>>The name wasn't a clue? ;->
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Got anything against Middle Easterners, other than for making pizzas?
>>>
>>>
>>>No. I would complain about Mexicans making Middle eastern food, too...
>>>:-) The "Middle Easterners" was Old Town Pizzeria, not Pizza Bella...
>>>:-)
>>>
>>
>>That last clarifies matters. Too bad about your ethnic "prejudices." I
>>have had excellent Chinese food prepared by Mexicans, Mexican food by
>>Chinese . . ., Greek food by Afghani . . .
>>
>
> My, aren't we politically righteous! I bet you believe the crippled 80
> year old Norwegian should be searched at the airport too, so that that
> no one is "offended".

It is ethnic prejudice anyway you wnat to dice or slice it. If others
saying above that nationality is not really relevant to cooks and
cuisine, it makes me wonder if you are some kind of bigot with the
comment you made.

If there are grounds for searchiing him, then do so. But not if you're
the only other passenger aboard and it is a pilotless/crewless flight.

jim

jim