 | [The famous Pakistani human rights lawyer and UN Special Rapporteur on
Freedom of Religion and Belief, Asma Jehangir, during her recent visit
to Dhaka, was interviewed by Inam Ahmed and Ashfaq Wares Khan of The
Daily Star on the state of the religious minorities, specially
Ahmadiyyas vis-a-vis human rights]
http://www.thedailystar.net/2005/01/18/d501181501111.htm
The Daily Star, Dhaka, Bangladesh
Tuesday, January 18, 2005
Interview with Asma Jehangir
Declaring Ahmadiyyas non-Muslim in Pakistan has serious repurcussion on
civil liberty
Excerpts:
DS: How did Pakistan deal with the repression of Ahmadiyyas?
AJ: In Pakistan, the issue was used by religious parties to use the
emotion of the people to enrage them and build new constituencies. It
became the foothold for the religious parties to gain entry into
parliament and government institutions.
DS: How did it unfold?
AJ: During the rule of President Zia-ul Haq, the military dictator, in
1984 Ordinance 20 was passed, for which the penal code was amended so
any Ahmadiyyas who pretend to be a Muslim would be punished. For
example, we had a number of what came to be known as "Assalamalaikum
Cases" where Ahmadiyyas would be arrested for greeting another
Pakistani by saying Assalamalaikum. The arrests ran into hundreds, if
not thousands.
There were numerous cases like this, where Ahmadiyyas were not allowed
to recite the Kalimas, they were not allowed to call their places of
worship as Mosques. When it came to getting passports, members of the
Ahmadiyya community had to sign a document declaring themselves as
non-Muslims and their religion as a fake one. Everybody signed, of
course, but the ones who refused to sign were arrested. The situation
really degraded Ahmadiyyas in the society, and members of the community
kept leaving the country.
DS: What really made the situation so degrading for the Ahmadiyyas?
AJ: The situation kept worsening, and it really became derogatory for
the Ahmadiyyas, when government high officials and even politicians
were dubbed as Ahmadiyyas to harass them politically and socially. When
the current Prime Minister of Pakistan Shaukat Aziz was called an
Ahmadiyya he had to make a public announcement saying he is not one but
a Muslim. The previous Chief Justice had to go to a Mosque and denounce
his father who was an Ahmadiyya.
When such high officials go out in public and denounce Ahmadiyyas, it
is quite derogatory for the members of the Ahmediyya community. Such an
attitude extended itself to institutions and hostility grew there, they
became untouchables and still are.
DS: What is the current state of the Ahmadiyyas in Pakistan?
AJ: Well, as I said they are still treated as untouchables, people do
not want to marry their children into Ahmadiyya families, there are
widespread discriminations against them in the workplace. They are
boxed in to their own isolated communities, in their own 'ghettos'.
But now, a very strong demand is out there in Pakistan to announce the
Zikris non-Muslims and recently they have also turned against the Aga
Khan community and are demanding that they be denounced as non-Muslims.
DS: You have said in other forums that the civil society in Pakistan
did not do enough and are not doing enough to prevent these atrocities
against the Ahmadiyya community. But was the repression under Zia's
regime so severe that perhaps the civil society could not do anything?
AJ: No, that is not the case. The movement against Zia-ul Haq was very
strong, and not just by women who were fighting for their rights, but
lawyers and journalists were being flogged for taking to the streets.
But when it came to protesting against the minority repression,
especially the Ahmadiyyas, there was an eerie and awkward silence. And
I believe the civil society failed.
DS: Why would the religious parties turn their focus to labelling
groups as non-Muslims, what did they stand to gain?
AJ: It was a very, very good political gimmick for the religious
parties in Pakistan. They wanted to make it an issue to show to the
people that they have power and they can make the government do it.
More importantly, they wanted to create new constituencies by fomenting
these claims of non-Muslims and enraging the general people.
DS: How can we in Bangladesh protect religious freedoms?
AJ: Guarantees by the government to protect their freedoms should be
put in place. The freedom to practice and manifestations of their
belief should be practiced as long as one group does not take away the
rights from anyone else.
DS: What do you think about the civil society here in Bangladesh?
AJ: I think it is a much more vibrant civil society here than the one
we have in Pakistan. You are lucky you do not have the military here.
But democracy here is a transitional one, and it started off at the
same time as the transitional democracies in Nepal and Pakistan between
the years 1988 and 1991. However, look what has happened there, their
democracies have been reversed while yours still exist. What I say is
to strengthen that democracy through independent judiciary, effective
parliament, free media and a vibrant civil society. You cannot let
democracy stagnate.
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